Drive Smoothness

[bfowler]

Should my drive be more like a car shifting gears as I go through the steps of x-step, plant, reachback, turn, grip, rip, follow through. Or should it be more fluid like pulling something down a greased track.

I notice when I concentrate on rocking/moving my core (with my arm extended back) from the toe of my plant through to the heel pivot. The movement of my whole body starts the disc towards the basket from the end of the reach back. After 4-6" inchs the "flow" continues with my core/shoulder rotation and heel pivot.

It feels almost like pulling air. It also feels like the disc is going faster then my arm and it harder to time my actual arm pull through the hit. Imagine the puck on a air hockey table and stand to the long side of the table. Use your hand hand slide the puck down the table but with force. You're sliding it against the air cushion and not pulling it with your weight.

Hey, that really fits. I just realized it feels more like I'm pushing the disc the pulling it.

When I don't concentrate on that smooth weight shift if feels more like I'm shifting gears in a car into each step. There's no pause but more like a micron of time from one part ending to the next beginning. It's easier to time my snap and easier to power with my arm. Many times too much arm.

I'm not sure if I'm making sense but wanted to explore this.

PS. I'm not getting any noticeable additional distance.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[A rod]

I feel like the fluidity is the important concept. I can have bad timing on a throw but while being very fluid and smooth and be very close to my max distance.

Other times I feel like I'm hitting the positions of the form but not being very fluid and have less distance than normal.

I have a feeling the smooth concept is based around a good follow through. If I don't brace the front leg well I can still have great follow through and be approaching my max of 405. If I have a strong plant with lazy feet or hips I lose maybe 10-15% distance.

Tl;Dr better distance by being smooth than robotic, even if the robot hits more of the correct positions.

 

[bfowler]

My follow through has always been horrible but between leading with my butt and getting my timing down it's getting better.

My big thing is when I start my active pull. I really have to make my arm not pull until late. If I start my pull halfway from my reach back I'll stop halfway through my pull. But if I hold off until around the right peck I'll whip around. The timing is just a lot harder to get down.

With a full pull I feel like I'm pulling my arm back instead of throwing the disc forward.

But it doesn't seem to matter if I get a full follow through or not I'm still only getting 325-350. Follow through feels better though and the throw feels easier.

 

[sidewinder22]

That doesn't sound right. The heel or foot should not pivot until the hit or after, otherwise you are spinning out of leverage. There needs to be some resistance to turning. The arm or hand/disc should plow through the hit forward(punching through the board not at the board), not come backward. You should be putting so much momentum on the disc, that it, the disc pulls you into the follow through effortlessly.

Correct sequencing = good easy distance and great consistency. Timing tends to come and go.

 

[bfowler]

I may have not explained myself very well. Classic clock face. 12 pointing at the target. If I start my active arm pull with the disc at around 9 and my shoulder are still inline with the basket, my follow through will end about 2 or 3 o'clock.

If I delay my active arm pull until 10 or 10:30 I'll whip around and end up at 6 o'clock.

Now, that I think about it, the difference may be more that I'm getting my elbow out farther towards the target when I get a good follow through.

But you may be on to something with my form. My heel pivot seems to happen at the same time my core turns, right before the hit. My heel turn seems to mirror the path of the disc or it's like the arc my toe creates when I turn on my heel is the same arc the disc takes and they happen at the same time when my body and everything goes from shifting forward to the basket to starting the arc/turn. In short, I may be spinning out, at least partially. I'll take some video this week.

 

[bfowler]

Went down the rabbit hole again after Sidewinders comments above and found a link to a video he's given me before but every new viewing I learn something new.

This time is was this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zByUYQnVdY

In the video the guys says to keep your upper body even or behind your hips. And to basically keep good posture. I've always heard over and over about getting your weight over your front foot and I realized I've taken that too far.

Basically my shoulders are getting past my hips.

Looking at that I also found that while I do keep my head through my throw I was tilting it towards the target. This caused me to have trouble keeping my shoulder from tipping forward and it caused me to bend slightly over to my right side.

So, during my lunch I threw a few shots and I actually think I felt the brace or resistance that Sidewinder mentioned above for the first time. Not super strong but it was something I've not felt before. I put my Tangent and Comet out to 300 with ease. And I wasn't getting hardly any wrist snap at all.

I was just focused on staying centered and balanced. Staying really stacked with my shoulder on top of my hips and my head staying inline with my spine. No side to side waist bend and no head movement other than looking straight down.

This also might explain why a lot of time I get pain in my right hip joint. I've been pushing my weight forward and down into it.

Sorry to drone on but thanks again to Sidewinder and all the peoples on DGCR.

 

[Tuckerman]

I've always heard over and over about getting your weight over your front foot and I realized I've taken that too far.

This. Many times I have nearly flung myself off the tee pad.

Recently - basically, since reading this thread - I've begun working from the follow through backward. The X-step doesn't even come into play. I just side-step onto my plant leg and practice specific things. Get my toe down first... pivot on my heel... let my left shoulder/arm come around until it points at the target...

Anyway, knowing how it feels to finish a throw has helped. I am beginning to feel how the X-step gets me to those positions.

 

[Grungedude42]

If you're doing it right, shifting a car should be smooth, too. Jerkiness will cause loss of momentum.

 

[sidewinder22]

Went down the rabbit hole again after Sidewinders comments above and found a link to a video he's given me before but every new viewing I learn something new.

This time is was this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zByUYQnVdY

In the video the guys says to keep your upper body even or behind your hips. And to basically keep good posture. I've always heard over and over about getting your weight over your front foot and I realized I've taken that too far.

Basically my shoulders are getting past my hips.

Looking at that I also found that while I do keep my head through my throw I was tilting it towards the target. This caused me to have trouble keeping my shoulder from tipping forward and it caused me to bend slightly over to my right side.

So, during my lunch I threw a few shots and I actually think I felt the brace or resistance that Sidewinder mentioned above for the first time. Not super strong but it was something I've not felt before. I put my Tangent and Comet out to 300 with ease. And I wasn't getting hardly any wrist snap at all.

I was just focused on staying centered and balanced. Staying really stacked with my shoulder on top of my hips and my head staying inline with my spine. No side to side waist bend and no head movement other than looking straight down.

This also might explain why a lot of time I get pain in my right hip joint. I've been pushing my weight forward and down into it.

Sorry to drone on but thanks again to Sidewinder and all the peoples on DGCR.

I've forgotten how good Colin's vid is, that was almost custom tailored for your issues as well as everyone else.

 

[bfowler]

I just broke my distance record earlier today. Blizzard Boss went 370. And I was throwing into a 20 MPH headwind.

I also threw my MVP Inertia 350.

I'm still doing tons of things wrong but just keeping my shoulders stacked over my hips makes a big difference. I was throwing monster hyzers 325-330 and usually I can only get good distance with straight line shots. I actually had some control on those too. They weren't just grip and rips although I was trying to throw it straight but they still landed near where I was aiming.

I did find a different type of hit or an addition to it. I was just trying different things with my good posture and I went slowly hips, shoulders but when I got to shoulder I actually turned them along with my core with power. The core turn was little a little explosion. I snapped around incredible fast. I've never felt that kind of insane speed during a throw. I don't even know if I actively pulled my arm. That first time my Wraith went on a laser very low into that headwind and went about 340. A good throw but that weird shoulder snap turn actually kind of threw me off.

I started trying to get it again and had a big problem with starting to turn stuff way over. I think trying to get that core snap/turn was causing me to roll my wrist or I was trying to hard to stand up straight and ended up puffing my chest up causing an anny. I started making sure I was pulling the disc level and my body was centered. Really focusing on keeping my head centered and NOT looking at my disc helped a lot. Just concentrate on the throw.

The next thing I know I get that core turn snap. My Boss goes out and up and keeps going. It starts to slowing barrel roll right before starting to fade back. But instead of really fading out it more just came back flat. It went over a hill I've measured at 350. When I got to the hill I saw it had gone about 20 feet further.

Farthest throw ever. Until tomorrow. :thmbup:

 

[JedV]

Good stuff. :clap:

 

[46YearOldSlinger]

Congrats!

 

[bfowler]

Played one of my home courses today. Bradford. I usually shot around 5 over there. My best is 2 over. I shot a 11 over today. The bad news the wind was fierce, my putting sucked, I had a birdie attempt hit the band roll 20 feet back down a hill and another 20 feet down a large cliff/ditch surrounded by boulders and rocks.

I also got stung by a bee on a par putt right when I putted. Hit the band. Does that stroke still count? Is there bee interference in the PDGA rulebook? We also saw two snakes.

The good news is I was throwing farther than I ever have on this course. By a good 20-50 feet. I still need a lot of practice but just keeping my posture and shoulders stacked over my hips and not letting my shoulders get out in front of my hips is all I was doing.

Two things amazed me. How far the disc was going and NOT hard I was throwing it. It was too hard to keep my body stacked and on the same plan while adding any type of power or snap or anything. Every time I trying to add some power, wrist snap or anything I'd get out of alignment and disc would go weird places.

It's suddenly very easy to see how a 140 lb skinny guy or girl could throw 400 feet. Can't wait to practice some more.

 

[Nasty Nate]

Nice! That is awesome. I hope to follow in your footsteps and start throwing far with better form. Sorry to hear you got stung by a bee while putting. That's rough. I got stung by a yellow-jacket once during a round. My brother's bag literally got swarmed by yellow-jackets and then a few got on our dog, and I got stung trying to get them off the dog. Nature was angry that day, my friend.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Two things amazed me. How far the disc was going and NOT hard I was throwing it. It was too hard to keep my body stacked and on the same plan while adding any type of power or snap or anything. Every time I trying to add some power, wrist snap or anything I'd get out of alignment and disc would go weird places.

I can second that - over and over I get my best results at 80%. I have no OAT issues, I have better release point accuracy, etc.

Throwing hard is trouble I don't need.

 

[bfowler]

Sometimes I hate this game. Well, not really but geez can it get frustrating.

1st throw - 200 uggg.
2nd throw - 300 better.
3rd throw - 340 alright!
4th throw - 290 wtf?
5th throw 305 what am I doing wrong?
6th throw - turn and burn
7th throw - see 6th throw
8th throw - 350....waaaaay to the right
9th throw - 275 I hate this game....

 

[CrowLegs]

Sometimes I hate this game. Well, not really but geez can it get frustrating.

1st throw - 200 uggg.
2nd throw - 300 better.
3rd throw - 340 alright!
4th throw - 290 wtf?
5th throw 305 what am I doing wrong?
6th throw - turn and burn
7th throw - see 6th throw
8th throw - 350....waaaaay to the right
9th throw - 275 I hate this game....

Man, that's one looong hole!