Dyeing is ruining my discs

[Scoopy]

After following the dye threads the last couple months, I've decided to give it a shot. You all make it seem and look so easy. I've had 4 epic, EPIC failures so far. My first dye I got way too exited and bought some **** vinyl from Walmart and used black powder rit mixed with water. I got the water almost steaming, let it cool for a few minutes then dipped my disc. The vinyl completely peeled off while it was dipped. The second I did I just used warm water and the liquid black dye, same result, peeled like crazy. I came across the free vinyl thread and got 2 big rolls last week, the controltac and one other one, can't remember it at the moment. I tried my 3rd with the controltac, but this time I tried the acetone/powder mix and brushed the paste on. Different technique, same result in peeling vinyl. The 4th one I tried tonight with the other free 3M stuff and tried mixing some hot water with powder to a pasty-like substance. I let it set for one hour, and when I rinsed it off, it didn't even stick to the yellow champion Starfire I was attempting to dye. I then made an acetone/rit paste and immediately it started leaking under just about every edge. I'm getting very frustrated, not to mention a bag of black discs I will be toting around at the rate I'm going. I made sure every air bubble was out, I've smoothed out all edges with the end of my exacto, tried the blow dry technique. I just can't get a decent dye. Am I just an idiot, or do other people have problems as well?? Is the acetone mix causing my vinyl to peel?? Some of you make it sound like its so easy, and maybe it is. But for me I've been struggling bad. I don't want to give up, but I don't want anymore black discs either. I've got a picture of my 4th dye, too embarassed to post it though. Anyone care to chime in and let me know what I'm doing wrong......PLEASE????

 

[thatdirtykid]

Press the vinyl on better. I have been using the sh***y walmart contact paper since I started never had it peel off.

 

[j0atz]

theres no reason to heat the dye that much. i heat mine until its warm to the touch. also could be the crappy vinyl. get some oracal 651. my first 5 dyes are in my gallery...nothing GREAT but no major problems.

 

[truk]

Yes, acetone will eat through vinyl/contact paper and cause major bleeds. Painting it on as a paste can be done, but timing and mixture is absolutely critical. The first method you tried (dipping in warm RIT/water mix) is definitely the way to go.

When you applied the vinyl, did you get it smooth on the first application? If you pull it up at all, a lot of the stickiness goes away. Also, if you're cleaning the disc before applying the wrap (always a good idea), make sure you've got all the cleaner rinsed off and the disc is totally dry.

It sounds like you had the vinyl pressed ok for the dip method on the later attempts...I'd go back to that if you're willing to go for a 5th. Like j0atz said, warm, not hot. Personnally, I reuse dye mixes as long as possible, but the when I first mix them, I bring the water to a near boil to get it "activated", then cool it down and bring it back to slightly warm.

 

[elevated plastic]

Try using liquid rit with water no acetone. Sounds like your water is to hot maybe. I put the stove on 1-2 heat and I use the cheap walmart vinyl and have never had any issues.

 

[Scoopy]

Wow, so it is just me....lol. I'm going to give it another shot, I got tons of vinyl and a bag of discs I never throw, its just getting frustrated. I've gotten more patient and meticulous with each dye, making sure its completely smooth and not pulling it back at all, but I can't even get a simple SF logo clean. I'm thinking no acetone. The one I did tonight seemed like it was good, until I added the acetone, then it went to crap quick!! Thanks for the helpful information. Hopefully I can get one to come out soon, or someone can have all my vinyl!!

 

[discordye]

Yeah. Be sure to use something to get all air bubbles from the edges out. I use the acetone then be sure to wash the whole disc with dish soap. Then dry entirely before application. Also when your applying the vinyl to the disc make sure your tape holding the pieces together isn't too sticky it it can pry your vinyl up making bleeding a higher possibility.

 

[woodstock]

I knew a guy once who was so fat he couldnt see his dingy, so he went to a Dr. The Dr. told him to diet. The guy asked, What color?

Dont give up man. Good luck.

 

[adh56]

I've only used the cheap stuff and I've had it in pretty hot, too where there is steam coming off the water. It's never peeled up like that. I've cleaned off the stamps with acetone but I've never mixed it in with the dye. I don't really understand why people do that. What the benefit?

 

[MOON]

Yes, acetone will eat through vinyl/contact paper and cause major bleeds. Painting it on as a paste can be done, but timing and mixture is absolutely critical. The first method you tried (dipping in warm RIT/water mix) is definitely the way to go.

When you applied the vinyl, did you get it smooth on the first application? If you pull it up at all, a lot of the stickiness goes away. Also, if you're cleaning the disc before applying the wrap (always a good idea), make sure you've got all the cleaner rinsed off and the disc is totally dry.

It sounds like you had the vinyl pressed ok for the dip method on the later attempts...I'd go back to that if you're willing to go for a 5th. Like j0atz said, warm, not hot. Personnally, I reuse dye mixes as long as possible, but the when I first mix them, I bring the water to a near boil to get it "activated", then cool it down and bring it back to slightly warm.

Acetone dose not eat through vinyl. But it will dissolve the adhesive . The trick here is to not let it sit to long. If your using acetone and dye it adsorbs fast. Also make sure the vinyl is press down well .

 

[MOON]

I've only used the cheap stuff and I've had it in pretty hot, too where there is steam coming off the water. It's never peeled up like that. I've cleaned off the stamps with acetone but I've never mixed it in with the dye. I don't really understand why people do that. What the benefit?

you would use acetone for a couple of resons...
brighter colors
hand painting
spin art / flydye
the pure love of the smell

 

[solomon.trenton]

only use acetone when removing the stamp

 

[eegor]

Be the "Johnny Cash" of disc golf... "I only throw the black"...

 

[agent_peebody]

did you follow my tutorial?

 

[Scoopy]

Thanks yrmnbrsup and peabody, I needed a laugh after getting so frustrated.....again!! I've read and re-read your tutorial a bunch of times. I cleaned my disc with acetone, then cleaned it again with warm water and soap, dried it off with a clean towel, then even took the blow dryer to it just to make sure. I made sure all the air bubbles were out and smoothed all the edges with the butt end of my exacto knife like you suggested AP. I think maybe the vinyl is not as sticky, because a couple of times I had to peel it off to get rid of a wrinkle or huge air bubbles. Maybe that's part of the problem? By peeling it off maybe I'm losing some of the glue under the vinyl, then repressing it back down, and maybe its not adhering very well?? I'm at a loss. I'm going to give it another try when I get home from Houston next week sometime with a warm water/rit combo. I've got a whole bag of discs I never use, so I'll try a few more times. 5th times the charm....right?? LOL!! Thanks for all the helpful information from you all. Hopefully I can get one to come out with clean lines and NO BLEEDS!!!

 

[agent_peebody]

i'd get oracal 651 vinyl, and try it with that before you ruin any more discs

 

[yawpstang64]

Nothing you are doing should lead to the bad results you're having. I think the vinyl you got is the root of these problems. Like AP said, Oracal 651 is the way to go.

Also, air bubbles don't matter unless they're less than a quarter inch from a cut, so don't go crazy getting them all out.

if you want an alternate tutorial check out this one; its pretty straight forward for the powdered rit and water dip.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Are you washing the disc before you apply the vinyl? Make sure the disc is clean and free of any contaminants that may affect the adhesion of the vinyl.

 

[Scoopy]

I do wash my disc after cleaning off the factory stamp with warm water and soap, and make sure its dry dry dry!! I decided to give it another shot tonight, and low and behold......success!!! There are a couple teeny tiny bleeds near the discraft stamp, but you can barely see them. Overall I'm very satisfied with the results. My girlfriend, not so much. She things I just created a monster within myself, only time will tell. Thank you to all of you for the very helpful information you've provided, its much appreciated!!

 

[yawpstang64]

Looks great! Glad you figured it out!
For future problem solving, what did you do differently to get it to work?