ESP Surge or Z Surge?

[Jody Mitchell]

Never thrown a Surge and was wondering what is the best plastic choice for this mold? I've got some extra cash this week to give to Marshall Street and Disc Golf Center so I feel like trying some new stuff. Which plastic is less stable and what's a good weight for me? I throw 170 gram Wraiths about 320-350 right now but I was thinking I need to step down to 168, not sure.

Also, I guess I should ask, even though I'm interested in a Surge, should I just stick with Wraiths?

 

[Gator]

Esp is the way to go, the Z surge is junk.

 

[VictorB]

The Z surge isn't a bad disc. It's not different enough from the ESP to say that it's garbage, if the ESP isn't. The Z is a touch less stable (even though its rated the same 1.7 as the ESP ) but it really just depends on what feel you like on your drivers - personally I don't like esp or star plastic much at all, so I use the Z. The grip on the surge is a little more comfortable to me than a wraith, it feels like the rim depth is a little taller.

At 350' of distance, an Orc or something similar would give better results. Out past 380' up to 425' is where the surge and wraith are probably at their best.

 

[Jesse B 707]

ESP
z is usually pretty shitty

 

[mzuleger]

a surge and a wraith are pretty much the same disc. You shouldn't get anything different from a surge that you don't already get with your wraith.

I'd consider a different disc if I were you.

 

[Jody Mitchell]

The Z surge isn't a bad disc. It's not different enough from the ESP to say that it's garbage, if the ESP isn't. The Z is a touch less stable (even though its rated the same 1.7 as the ESP ) but it really just depends on what feel you like on your drivers - personally I don't like esp or star plastic much at all, so I use the Z. The grip on the surge is a little more comfortable to me than a wraith, it feels like the rim depth is a little taller.

At 350' of distance, an Orc or something similar would give better results. Out past 380' up to 425' is where the surge and wraith are probably at their best.

Funny you mention that, I was actually interested in trying an Orc too. What plastic/weight should I get in this? By the way, you're not the only person to suggest Orcs to me.

Thanks for the help.

 

[tgm]

Maybe try a Surge SS (Z or FLX). They're slightly less stable than an ESP Surge, and they glide a long ways without a lot of effort. They also fade a bit less too. I've thrown some beat up Orcs and they seem to fly similar to me.

 

[Jeronimo]

I staunchly defend the new stamp Z Surges. They are not junk and actually fly quite admirably. There's a trend on this forum to poo poo on Elite Z plastic and ADORE esp plastic, yet just the opposite for Innova. Quite curious...

 

[VictorB]

Funny you mention that, I was actually interested in trying an Orc too. What plastic/weight should I get in this? By the way, you're not the only person to suggest Orcs to me.

Thanks for the help.

I'd suggest something like a 168-170 champ orc. I'm biased to champ/z plastic though, I just don't like the way that esp/star feels for drivers.

 

[homebrew]

Maybe try a Surge SS (Z or FLX). They're slightly less stable than an ESP Surge, and they glide a long ways without a lot of effort. They also fade a bit less too. I've thrown some beat up Orcs and they seem to fly similar to me.

I agree with this. I do quite well with the Surge SS.

 

[Jesse B 707]

I staunchly defend the new stamp Z Surges. They are not junk and actually fly quite admirably. There's a trend on this forum to poo poo on Elite Z plastic and ADORE esp plastic, yet just the opposite for Innova. Quite curious...

its not a plastic thing, the mold has historically flown like shit in Z plastic for years now (except the 1/50 gem that flew good) maybe they fixed their problem on the new runs? never thrown em.......but after actually reading the OP id say go for a slower mold, A Surge needs around 380/400 of power before it starts to fly on its intended line and an Orc is around the same power requirement IMO, a Pro SL, Striker, CD, MOLF or MOLS would all be better choices at this point

 

[Jesse B 707]

Maybe try a Surge SS (Z or FLX). They're slightly less stable than an ESP Surge, and they glide a long ways without a lot of effort. They also fade a bit less too. I've thrown some beat up Orcs and they seem to fly similar to me.

I agree with this. I do quite well with the Surge SS.

while they are a great disc the power requirement is still about the same as a regular Surge

 

[SkaBob]

I admit I ignored the rest of this thread, so if I'm echo'ing someone then I merely repeat them as they say... Stop copying me!

at any rate...

The Orc is more overstable than the Surge. You're not going to throw it as far.

The Z Surge is more than a little flippier than the ESP Surge, so you'll have a bit better distance potential...

BUT

Especially at your distance, you want to check out a Z Surge SS. The FLX ones are poo and should be treated as such. The Z ones have glide GALORE (more than any normal Surge I've ever thrown, and I've thrown just about all the variations), and since they're less overstable than the Surge or Orc or Wraith, you'll have an easier time keeping them straight and getting more distance on them.

 

[SkaBob]

Maybe try a Surge SS (Z or FLX). They're slightly less stable than an ESP Surge, and they glide a long ways without a lot of effort. They also fade a bit less too. I've thrown some beat up Orcs and they seem to fly similar to me.

I agree with this. I do quite well with the Surge SS.

while they are a great disc the power requirement is still about the same as a regular Surge

Especially in the lighter weights, this isn't really true for the Z Surge SS. They do have a wider rim than an Orc (and thus a lower arm-speed requirement to get them to cruising speed), but the lower stability will let you get a better shot on them at lower power levels (where the Surge or Orc will fade out early and cut your distance).

I've thrown a few Orcs that my ebay buddy has (he's always trying to get me to switch to Orcs), and I have to say the Orc is more overstable than most Surges, especially in champ plastic (REALLY especially in glow champ plastic).

For someone in the 320-350 range, the Z Surge SS is going to be the best option for both distance and stability.

 

[VictorB]

The Orc is more overstable than the Surge. You're not going to throw it as far.

.

I guess its been too long since I have thrown an Orc...

 

[Jesse B 707]

For someone in the 320-350 range, the Z Surge SS is going to be the best option for both distance and stability.

this is not at all true of the ones ive thrown but they were all 170+ :? id still say any of mey recommendations above are gonna be way better at that power level (>9000)

 

[tgm]

I throw my Surge SS's in the 165g-168g range. My max distance is 350ft and typical drives with them are 300-325. I like the ND Surge too, but it's a slightly overstable driver for me, they go pretty straight and fade a good amount at the end. The SS is a bit touchy on release angle for me though, I get the best results pretty flat, maybe with a little bit of hyzer to flatten it out.

 

[SkaBob]

For someone in the 320-350 range, the Z Surge SS is going to be the best option for both distance and stability.

this is not at all true of the ones ive thrown but they were all 170+ :? id still say any of mey recommendations above are gonna be way better at that power level (>9000)

I'd honestly say the Avenger SS is better for his power level, but he's going to outgrow it soon if he plays at all seriously, so I recommended the Surge instead. It does need a faster speed, but the light one I have is great for lower powered players. WAY too flippy for me now, though...I have to throw it on a hyzer to keep a turnover from cut-rolling unless there's a tailwind.

Though, for someone in the 320-350 range, it'd be a pretty great driver.

Since I don't throw it, I'd be willing to get rid of it, too...