Film from the back!

[HyzerUniBomber]

I'm not even sure how to start this, so I'll just start typing:

Nick has been working on his form, and I decided to A->B him to Wiggins. What I didn't realize as I started that process, was that it would connect in a way that I finally started to understand 2 major concepts that had not clicked fully with me.

1. Loading from the backside. There has to be a better way to understand this, describe it - because the door frame drill and the butt wipe drill get close, but FOR ME (and only me) that movement didn't click even after doing that drill hundreds of times. Even after TEACHING that drill - I didn't get how linked to posture and foot alignment it is.

When I truly uncorked that "loading the hips in", it was like I pushed a big counter weight forward that is on the right side of the plant foot - and it's moving directly forward.

KEY POINT: the feet have to be staggered so that you're driving the backside forward on the right side! Too little stagger and you'll be taking away your counter weight for the next step.

It's different to load into the backside from a 1-step than and x-step because in a 1-step you have to push forward with the back leg and the x-step is more about just getting the staggered feet right (and on the ball of the back foot) so it can clear and counterbalance. That small difference for me is best explained by the feeling of reaching behind you and pulling your friend off the ground once your weight is on your front foot. You'd have to drive weight forward from the back foot to get enough momentum to really pull that person off the ground. With an x-step the momentum is already there.

2. Easiest way to understand this step is to look at Wiggins in the 2nd and 3rd screen grabs. It's SOOOOO important to have your power pocket get over the toes and knee. AND if the left foot is staggered properly during your setup, you get that nice angle that looks like \.

To get into the \ position, I literally stood around for a couple days trying move from point to point understanding how to get from that finishing position back to step 1 and then back forward. I was pulling through lower and squaring my shoulders up better and getting over my knee, but I kept popping past my brace - even though I was throwing in the mid to upper 400's. The only time I was catching my weight fully was on a hyzer and that's when it clicked that I was straightening my feet offset and losing my ability to counterbalance.

I know this is getting wordy - but I think this same issue is one that quite a few of the 400-475' throwers who are getting a bunch of the stuff right, but can't quite unlock the next 25-100' are stuck on.

When the upper body stacks OVER the knee and ball of the foot, with the backside loading in on the right side - the upper body comes through with force.

So... here's what I THINK is happening:

All this setup is now the complete power generation. The disc gets an initial yank at the top of the backswing, getting it to the guiding forward speed. The disc comes into the center chest and at that point, it feels like it's gliding through the track - not yet accelerating.

The right shoulder is leading that upper body that is now tilted forward over the knee/foot and the disc is loaded into the hand on the outside position.

With the arm muscles loose and the grip snug, the extension is more of a RELEASE of the power with the aim to be able to extend the disc in a way that keeps the grip ripping off the rim properly.

It's SUPER hard to not let the feeling of "throw it hard" leak into your brain, but whatever it is that I'm doing when I try to "throw it harder" seems to bring the disc into that power pocket with too much speed to hold onto and slip just a tiny bit too early. If I grip well, it's almost a complete wash though - which can be confusing.

It's like there's a perfect shape of the arc and grip that can tolerate a certain amount of initial speed and it's linked to the posture and the balance.

 

[Ice9]

That small difference for me is best explained by the feeling of reaching behind you and pulling your friend off the ground once your weight is on your front foot. You'd have to drive weight forward from the back foot to get enough momentum to really pull that person off the ground. With an x-step the momentum is already there.

If I'm following you correctly here, by "behind you" you mean the friend would be sitting at the rear of the tee-pad or in the opposite direction of your target. I've had a hard time understanding the benefits of having your weight on the front foot but I think this analogy makes a lot of sense. Imagining a more upright posture with weight seated back it would be very difficult to help your friend up. In order to pull them off the ground (and target-ward) you'd really need to have a more tilted posture with your weight over the front foot.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

If I'm following you correctly here, by "behind you" you mean the friend would be sitting at the rear of the tee-pad or in the opposite direction of your target. I've had a hard time understanding the benefits of having your weight on the front foot but I think this analogy makes a lot of sense. Imagining a more upright posture with weight seated back it would be very difficult to help your friend up. In order to pull them off the ground (and target-ward) you'd really need to have a more tilted posture with your weight over the front foot.

Yes, and that's the key too... it's not just helping the UP, it's wanting to launch them past you to the target. So getting the upper body squared up to them as you make that initial move to the plant foot is important.

I have done this with people, by actually sitting on the ground and having them try to pull me up or by having them pull me forward. It shows them quickly the importance of how they're setup initially and how bad it is to round.

 

[RFrance]

From the back it is easier to see just how staggered the front and back foot are. It's a lot more than just back toes aligned with front heel. With Wiggins there looks to be about 12 inches between the front heel and back toe during the backswing.

 

[lowesengineer]

Foot Position

It hit me a few weeks ago hard about the position of your feet which you talk about above. If I let the rear foot open backward even slightly on a one step it allows my body to lean back instead of turn back. Once that happens, it all goes crazy. If I keep the rear foot turned slightly in, I turn back with no lean back and that keeps my weight entirely inside of the rear knee and foot. For each action there is an equal and opposite reaction comes to mind. If I allow myself outside my knees turning back, I can't keep myself inside my front knee coming forward.

As to the front foot, allowing it to open even slightly lets me get past my foot prior to the throw rather than out in front of it. The only way to accomplish the feet into those positions comfortably for me is to stagger the feet into the \ position you talk about.

Sure is some good stuff talked about in here. I am sure that I have no idea what I am talking about, but if you keep reading the different ways different people express the same concept, eventually it clicks. I certainly owe many in here for the improvements I have seen.

 

[Nick481]

I've notices that you and SW22 have been able to notice more things when I do the back videos so it seems to be better like you've said. I agree with getting the upper body over the balls of the foot, as you can see in the pics of me I still need to work on that. Good info!

 

[slowplastic]

From the back it is easier to see just how staggered the front and back foot are. It's a lot more than just back toes aligned with front heel. With Wiggins there looks to be about 12 inches between the front heel and back toe during the backswing.

The bigger the stride and faster stride speed lead to a wider and more closed plant. I was going too closed for a very long time and it was hurting a lot of my body positions. I bet their body angle (closed relative to target) is similar to a heel to toe type of alignment for us "normal" people, just Wiggins stride is much bigger on a high power shot.\

Of course try things out and figure out where it works for you. But I caution that overdoing the closed angle can prevent you from getting to other positions correctly.

 

[sidewinder22]

From the back it is easier to see just how staggered the front and back foot are. It's a lot more than just back toes aligned with front heel. With Wiggins there looks to be about 12 inches between the front heel and back toe during the backswing.

I say toes to heel mainly as a starting guideline for my drills and standstill because it's easier to maintain your balance and posture in athletic position for throwing straight. From there where you stagger is more about shaping shots with the direction of your momentum.

The bigger the stride and faster stride speed lead to a wider and more closed plant. I was going too closed for a very long time and it was hurting a lot of my body positions. I bet their body angle (closed relative to target) is similar to a heel to toe type of alignment for us "normal" people, just Wiggins stride is much bigger on a high power shot.

Of course try things out and figure out where it works for you. But I caution that overdoing the closed angle can prevent you from getting to other positions correctly.

Absolutely, there is a point of diminishing returns.

Here I'm toes to heel throwing a straight putter shot:


Here I'm much more closed in appearance throwing more of a left-right line with an x-step:


Here's Feldy throwing the whole gambit:

 

[sidewinder22]

Yes, and that's the key too... it's not just helping the UP, it's wanting to launch them past you to the target. So getting the upper body squared up to them as you make that initial move to the plant foot is important.

I have done this with people, by actually sitting on the ground and having them try to pull me up or by having them pull me forward. It shows them quickly the importance of how they're setup initially and how bad it is to round.

 

[RFrance]

I say toes to heel mainly as a starting guideline for my drills and standstill because it's easier to maintain your balance and posture in athletic position for throwing straight.

When I tried to stagger heel and toe too much this evening at practice it felt like I was doing the one-legged drill. Moved them back closer and much better balance.

From there where you stagger is more about shaping shots with the direction of your momentum.

Would the little wider stagger help shape anny shots from a standstill?

 

[sidewinder22]

Would the little wider stagger help shape anny shots from a standstill?

Yep, it should naturally put your balance more toward your heel than your toes so your spine will be more upright(as long as you are not collapsing your posture) or even tilted back which is on plane for anhyzer.