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I went to one of his clinics.
He said we had to be hips squared up to the target at release. He preferred that we kept them facing forward during the throw, but said it was okay to have them turned sideways and rotate to square if that was how we wanted to do it.
His advice to just throw a baseball and not worry about all the other details he mentioned is good advice, if you grew up throwing a baseball. I didn't, and I have to think about all those to throw a baseball too!
Very good point. That advice only works for someone who has experience throwing a baseball. So it sounds like in the clinic he does clarify it the way I suggested. I just don't think you can get any power if you start like that.
Yeah, I can't ever get any traction with Stokely's forehand advice. I tried and tried, keeping my feet at target, throwing it like a ball, etc. But if I add power I turn it over. I also have lots of wobble still regardless of grip, except on split finger upshots up to 120'.
I'm sure some of it is from a jacked up shoulder (decades of volleyball and an impingement for which I got a bicep tenotomy). So I don't have full range of motion. But even so, I can throw a ball fairly hard around 3/4 (never really could do a pure sidearm or submarine type throw very well). So his method should work, but it doesn't for me.
I actually think quite a bit of his sidearm advice is very good, just not that one point.
Sounds like you're definitely working around some issues I don't have. If you're stuck in the 3/4 arm slot, are you still able to lean over to get the disc relatively parallel to the ground? If not, then you'll definitely need to stick with flexing a very overstable disc that is going to fight out of that extreme anny.
So he says that you will roll your wrist by staying sideways while planting, i thought you should suppose to plant with a closed upperbody sideways to the target, lots of players do it or did i missunderstood his point.
Everybody is different. There's a video out where the advice is to point both feet forward and you should end with your hips square to the target (not sideways). The player? Ryan Sheldon in Ryan Sheldon Explains Advanced Forehand Distance. He's known for long and fast forehands (although this video is the first I've heard of him). Will that work for everyone? No.
I've learned to watch videos/players and find what works for me. Sometimes the advice has something useful for me, sometimes it doesn't. The most important part (in my opinion) is to know what you are struggling with, find advice on how to improve that issue, try the different suggestions (and remember that is all it is - suggestions), and find what works for you. Go back and watch tournament videos and focus on the different player's forehands. Do they throw their forehands the same way? Heck no! They all do what works for them and that is what we need to remember...instructors (pros or otherwise) are giving suggestions based on what works (or worked) for them.
Everybody is different. There's a video out where the advice is to point both feet forward and you should end with your hips square to the target (not sideways). The player? Ryan Sheldon in Ryan Sheldon Explains Advanced Forehand Distance. He's known for long and fast forehands (although this video is the first I've heard of him). Will that work for everyone? No.
I've been slowly working on my FH. I think the points I'm raising have been mentioned elsewhere but is relevant to the posts above & I'm wondering if I understand correctly.
Intuitively, it seems like the desired power of a sidearm scales with the load in the rear hip/drive foot. Power should increase when a player initially has that drive foot laterally to the target at whatever high-leverage angle that player's anatomy yields to help drive them into the plant and open the hips for a faster whip. That's what you see in most MLB pitchers and crow hops from the outfield. Then they plant more open to the target.
In Sheldon's instructional video he tells you to walk up with a more forward-orientation to his feet like Stokely suggests, but then Sheldon himself takes a very lateral stride in his power forehands like an outfielder crow-hopping sidearm throw (e.g., in the first segment of the Disc Golf Bro Tour video).
Stokely often seems to take a nearly completely straight-toward-the-target striding approach to his forehands, e.g. in his casual round vs. Simon you can see a few:
So it seems like you can stride open-to-open for a FH (e.g., Stokely's advice and throws + Sheldon's advice), but you can also learn to gain a power benefit from the lateral loading/unloading of the drive leg (Sheldon actually throwing a power forehand).
Then Stokely also has a few more diagonal drive foot throws like this one in SW22's vid:
Stokely is obviously throwing very far controlled FH too (keeping in mind that he is built like an organic trebuchet), so I'm just trying to sort out the tradeoffs in mechanics.
I've been slowly working on my FH. I think the points I'm raising have been mentioned elsewhere but is relevant to the posts above & I'm wondering if I understand correctly.
Intuitively, it seems like the desired power of a sidearm scales with the load in the rear hip/drive foot. Power should increase when a player initially has that drive foot laterally to the target at whatever high-leverage angle that player's anatomy yields to help drive them into the plant and open the hips for a faster whip. That's what you see in most MLB pitchers and crow hops from the outfield. Then they plant more open to the target.
In Sheldon's instructional video he tells you to walk up with a more forward-orientation to his feet like Stokely suggests, but then Sheldon himself takes a very lateral stride in his power forehands like an outfielder crow-hopping sidearm throw (e.g., in the first segment of the Disc Golf Bro Tour video).
Stokely often seems to take a nearly completely straight-toward-the-target striding approach to his forehands, e.g. in his casual round vs. Simon you can see a few:
So it seems like you can stride open-to-open for a FH (e.g., Stokely's advice and throws + Sheldon's advice), but you can also learn to gain a power benefit from the lateral loading/unloading of the drive leg (Sheldon actually throwing a power forehand).
Then Stokely also has a few more diagonal drive foot throws like this one in SW22's vid:
Stokely is obviously throwing very far controlled FH too (keeping in mind that he is built like an organic trebuchet), so I'm just trying to sort out the tradeoffs in mechanics.
Watch the videos frame-by-frame, especially that second video of Stokely driving. To say his drive foot is diagonal is being generous. Pause the video at 2:29. That's about as sideways to the target as you can get during a forehand throw. I would bet that was Stokely trying to generate some serious power, in contrast to the earlier throws where he was taking a bit off the power.
If you watch actual footage of Sheldon, you'll see the same thing. He might start out with squared hips, but at some point before the throw, he gets sideways to the target and then opens back up while engaging his hips during the drive and into the plant, just the way you would expect an ex major league pitching prospect to do...
To be honest, I think people should just do whatever feels best for them in regards to forehand.
I've pretty much always based my FH technique on Scott's so I've been following all his guides when it comes to improving my FH throw.
I've also tried other techniques like starting out facing sideways and that swinging the hips/arm/snapping the wrist which works but it just doesn't feel as right as facing forward the entire time except during the back swing which is when I rotate my hips to the side.
Very helpful for me to hear notes about how others developed their FH distance.
Recently I've been having the most success facing forward with a small shift and letting the arm move in the "don't serve the pizza"/"slash thru" mechanics. I used to do some Eskrima and it feels most similar to a wide lateral baton strike. I do like SW22's style of having the arm cocked early and have had minimal strain as a result.
I had hurt the rotator cuff throwing a baseball incorrectly years ago so I'm going slow, working out to 200' with my slow discs now with a pretty easy feeling throw and decent aim. But I am less confident knowing what to focus on to safely increase distance next (I'm sure a form check will be part of that soon!)
I've been slowly working on my FH. I think the points I'm raising have been mentioned elsewhere but is relevant to the posts above & I'm wondering if I understand correctly.
Intuitively, it seems like the desired power of a sidearm scales with the load in the rear hip/drive foot. Power should increase when a player initially has that drive foot laterally to the target at whatever high-leverage angle that player's anatomy yields to help drive them into the plant and open the hips for a faster whip. That's what you see in most MLB pitchers and crow hops from the outfield. Then they plant more open to the target.
In Sheldon's instructional video he tells you to walk up with a more forward-orientation to his feet like Stokely suggests, but then Sheldon himself takes a very lateral stride in his power forehands like an outfielder crow-hopping sidearm throw (e.g., in the first segment of the Disc Golf Bro Tour video).
Stokely often seems to take a nearly completely straight-toward-the-target striding approach to his forehands, e.g. in his casual round vs. Simon you can see a few:
So it seems like you can stride open-to-open for a FH (e.g., Stokely's advice and throws + Sheldon's advice), but you can also learn to gain a power benefit from the lateral loading/unloading of the drive leg (Sheldon actually throwing a power forehand).
Then Stokely also has a few more diagonal drive foot throws like this one in SW22's vid:
Stokely is obviously throwing very far controlled FH too (keeping in mind that he is built like an organic trebuchet), so I'm just trying to sort out the tradeoffs in mechanics.
Watch the videos frame-by-frame, especially that second video of Stokely driving. To say his drive foot is diagonal is being generous. Pause the video at 2:29. That's about as sideways to the target as you can get during a forehand throw. I would bet that was Stokely trying to generate some serious power, in contrast to the earlier throws where he was taking a bit off the power.
If you watch actual footage of Sheldon, you'll see the same thing. He might start out with squared hips, but at some point before the throw, he gets sideways to the target and then opens back up while engaging his hips during the drive and into the plant, just the way you would expect an ex major league pitching prospect to do...
He plants totally closed and gets down to about knee height. No clue exactly how he does it but what I appreciate is that it puts a lot less strain on his arm and shoulder than throwing with heavy anhyzer
He plants totally closed and gets down to about knee height. No clue exactly how he does it but what I appreciate is that it puts a lot less strain on his arm and shoulder than throwing with heavy anhyzer
Finally a breakthrough i want to share to maybe help others.
Spent so many hours trying to find how my elbow and arm should be in relation to my body through the backswing and downswing. Sometimes i have had these 320 feet missiles and next time to yank them over completly and hurt my elbow.
Today i went back to the "not looking forward strategy" starting sideways in the run up and when my rear foot hit the ground in the final step i start looking down and towards 2-3 a clock if 12 is the target, And like i have said before it works for distance and no pain in the elbow and finally i understand why.
The elbow shouldnt go forward to 12 from the backswing. It should go to 1,30 forward out from the body, out forward not in forward. It can pass the body close but then it needs to go away to get that elbowswing down the fairway and a forward follow through. So when you not looking on the target you automaticlly get to this position since you swing more out. Just like in the backhand out in out to the body kinda. Also its easier to get the hip/upperbody seperation by looking away so if you struggeling like i had try ut out and work from there to look forward all the way since its one of the advantage for a fh throw.
This video needs to be linked in this thread. It's Brian Earhardt talking about how there's no such thing as a universal release for forehand throws. How you throw a forehand varies quite a bit based on what disc you're throwing. After about 6 months of going forehand dominant, I completely agree with him, and it's something I've never seen anyone else talk about. The less stable and slower the disc, the more you have to 'serve the pizza', stop the arm short and really flick that wrist. If you try to do that with anything higher than a 6-speed, it's just not going to go anywhere.
This video needs to be linked in this thread. It's Brian Earhardt talking about how there's no such thing as a universal release for forehand throws. How you throw a forehand varies quite a bit based on what disc you're throwing. After about 6 months of going forehand dominant, I completely agree with him, and it's something I've never seen anyone else talk about. The less stable and slower the disc, the more you have to 'serve the pizza', stop the arm short and really flick that wrist. If you try to do that with anything higher than a 6-speed, it's just not going to go anywhere.
I thought this video that Josh just dropped was great. I like that he mentions the parallels to other sports like baseball and tennis. I didn't see anything in his discussion that I disagreed with. I definitely need to work on #6. I know I get my weight transferred, but my drive leg does tend to hang back. I think I could pick up some extra power by bringing that drive leg all the way through.
The baseball long toss drill could help with number 7 if you think that may be an issue for you.
I thought this video that Josh just dropped was great. I like that he mentions the parallels to other sports like baseball and tennis. I didn't see anything in his discussion that I disagreed with. I definitely need to work on #6. I know I get my weight transferred, but my drive leg does tend to hang back. I think I could pick up some extra power by bringing that drive leg all the way through.
The baseball long toss drill could help with number 7 if you think that may be an issue for you.
I know I can tell the difference. For me, pushing equates to strong-arming. I never get as much distance or accuracy, and it leaves my shoulder sorer. I do much better when I relax the arm and use my legs, hips, and shoulders to power the throw. My arm, all the way down to my wrist, hand, and ultimately the disc, just come along for the ride.
I know I can tell the difference. For me, pushing equates to strong-arming. I never get as much distance or accuracy, and it leaves my shoulder sorer. I do much better when I relax the arm and use my legs, hips, and shoulders to power the throw. My arm, all the way down to my wrist, hand, and ultimately the disc, just come along for the ride.
I'd still consider it muscling vs "pushing" personally.
Maybe I'm wrong.
I teach people from upshots to build up into longer shots.
But I teach them to push at the target. Which helps people think to not basically do what ... i guess I'd equate to a whip around, or a rounded forehand where you basically just wing it as hard as you can and keep everything too tight, vs loose and fly the disc at the target.
Set your body into the throw, fly it down the line and push out at your target. When you try and whip your hand and forehand around, that will make massive OAT and generally roll the disc over.
Just a FH update that might help others with a inconsistent forehand.
I figured it out today why some days everything clicks and the disc comming out clean without wobble with great spin+distance and no elbow pain and other days the feeling is gone and all throws feels diffrent wobbly and a bit painful after a awhile .
Tried everything out, if i should focus on elbow swing and how far out or high or low or focus swing the disc back and far reachback etc..
Its all about that hip/upperbody seperation and how you do it. I have to turn my body while moving forward not just the elbow or swingback disc. If I focus on reachback i dont get the stretch and end up 90 degress with both hips and upperbody then when planting the seperation is so small and my arm is behind my body.. so feel the stretch and focus turning upper body to like 60-70 degress if facing the target with the elbow and arm in the same position to your body, after that the elbow can swing away or up a bit in the last stride. Its so easy to coil or turn back the wrong way and at wrong time to mess everything up. But atleast now i know whats going on.
I know some people like to start with the body sideways but that doesnt really work for me and ending up release the disc while not have the body forward.
Stokely recommends the "throw the ball" arm slot. I've been trying to do that, haven't got it yet due mostly to my inexperience throwing a ball. It looks to me like Ryan Sheldon agrees. But you certainly have to throw hyzers too.
The Earhart video seems to recommend a baseball throw for anny and a wrist flick for hyzer. Not sure about that.
There is another thread on anatomic limitations, and I had a thought. I don't have any layback range of motion in my shoulder, and although I stretch, at my age it isn't going to happen. So where a pro baseball pitcher has both shoulders and throwing elbow in a straight line, my elbow has to be forward of the shoulder line to make the same type of throw. I think, anyway, and I had some success with that this past week.
