Form Help!

[DiscusMaximus]

Somewhat better than before.

Note how your head/chest/spine is extending so you have no forward compression of the chest/head over the disc/foot/hip.
Note how Simon pushes his right knee back to the east which clears the hip to the east while his chest/head stay compressed/tilted forward over top the front foot/hip and disc.
SC talks about the forward chest compression in tilted spiral 2.
View attachment 327324

I see what you mean.

Think I need to focus on the centripetal pull bringing the disc under my head to achieve that position.

 

[DiscusMaximus]

Hey guys,

Been working on the feedback I received. Specifically been trying to be pushing with the plant leg harder/sooner. It's still bent too much, but it seems like it's not bending any further once planted. Also was really trying to think battering ram with the elbow. Don't think it's quite in the optimal direction yet as I'm still not getting very deep in the pocket, but my throws were feeling much easier with a slight boost in distance. Was hard to tell exactly how far as I was throwing into a headwind.

I reverted/continued to keep the weird drive leg action of rising up, but I think it was responding a bit better on the downswing due to the better plant leg pushing.

Some video of me throwing with a hammer and sledge

Some video of me throwing discs

As always would greatly appreciate any feedback you might have.

 

[sidewinder22]

You are trying to manipulate the hammer instead of letting go of it into backswing. Do not worry about bending your elbow with the long sledge. Note how you are leaning away from target with the hammer instead of countering the hammer pulling away from target.

 

[DiscusMaximus]

You are trying to manipulate the hammer instead of letting go of it into backswing. Do not worry about bending your elbow with the long sledge. Note how you are leaning away from target with the hammer instead of countering the hammer pulling away from target.
View attachment 328909

Understood, and this same feeling applies to the disc in the backswing? Letting it go rather than manipulating?

 

[DiscusMaximus]

Hey Again,

Practiced quite a bit over the past few months. Didn't really see enough progress to warrant posting my videos though. Hoping these latest clips show some progress.

Form is still ugly, and I maybe lost a little distance, but the feeling I'm playing with right now feels like I might be on the right track. Been playing with dropping into the plant more and allowing that drop to bring the disc into the pocket. Then starting to really push once it's there. I don't have the timing down yet, but it feels like it will be powerful when I do. As long as I get my shoulders turned a certain amount, it feels like the disc wants to come back into the pocket before swinging out. Balance and tilt still need work, which is probably why my front leg still gets so bent, but I think I'm progressing.

With some of the changes I've been struggling to throw both hyzer and nose down. I can't seem to keep my hand/wrist below my elbow, even when focusing on it. If anyone has some insight as to why, or any other insight into ways to improve, I'd greatly appreciate the feedback!

 

[sidewinder22]

You are pushing off your rear leg all wrong/width of stance. Work from standstill and finish standing upright on front leg/hip with rear femur/knee hanging from rear hip. You are collapsing your posture down into your front leg and tipping your upperbody over top lower body instead of shifting your lower body ahead of upperbody. Note how your rear foot slips on your standstill while it gets stuck back on ground during your x-step so you end up in too wide stance. Markus rear foot dragged forward and his rear femur/knee is hanging directly underneath the rear hip so his posture is stacked upright balanced on front leg/hip.

You would fall down the stairs in Swivel Stairs Drill.

 

[DiscusMaximus]

Sage advice, as always, Sidewinder.

Just got done rewatching all the videos (amazing how many time it takes for some things to sink in lol) and playing around with that in my house.

Will see how it impacts the swing with the disc in my hand, but without a disc it feels more effortless.

 

[DiscusMaximus]

Told myself I was going to slow down my efforts on this in 2024, but so far I've been unable to stay away haha.

I think my footwork has improved. I'm feeling a lot more energy flow through my upper body. Unfortunately, this hasn't translated into additional distance yet. My throws were erratic. I was struggling to throw nose down and hyzer. Still rounding.

Seems like my concepts of how pulling through should feel have been off. My hypothesis is that I was still trying to drag the weight of the disc behind me, rather than driving the arm/disc-unit open. At home I've been playing with this concept, and it feels good. It feels like as my right glute screws clockwise, it drives my arm/disc-unit clockwise as well, and if balanced right my hand lags behind my elbow. Need to field test this, but hoping it's in the right direction. While improved, footwork still needs work. Been working on the kick the ball drill to try and stay leveraged on the back leg better.

My self analysis has been off before though, so I'd appreciate any feedback!

 

[sidewinder22]

After you shift back, you then start to extend/rise on rear leg and then go targetward so your weight is moving up and over like a rainbow.

Note how I'm shifted back the same in frame 1 although earlier in backswing, but then I'm dropping targetward and turning back so my weight is moving underneath like a skater on half pipe. The backswing is going to feel much faster when you start going targetward and dropping earlier, almost too fast for a full backswing. What you are doing now is very slow.

If you are going to rise in the backswing then you should start in a wider stance and move your front foot back toward rear foot like Reverse Stride Drill.

The vids in here apply:

The Hips

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www.dgcoursereview.com

 

[DiscusMaximus]

Thanks as always for the feedback, Sidewinder!

Totally makes sense. I've been struggling to get my butt pointed at the target, and I'm thinking maybe the way I'm corkscrewing into the back leg isn't quite right. It feels like I'm almost jamming that back hip, hitting a wall where I can't turn farther. Since your post, I've been playing around with more flex in the back leg, and I think it's allowing me to get better turn, although the balance is taking some getting used to. Thinking about getting the front leg in the position of your picture has been somewhat helpful.

Any additional tips or swing thoughts you have about that back leg corkscrew? Shawn Clement says the back leg must extend to get the hips to turn. Obviously the extension/rising I was doing wasn't quite right. Does thinking about pushing into the ground help? I think maybe I've been thinking counter clockwise corkscrew with leg/foot, but I think I've heard that it's supposed to be clockwise. Playing around with it now, it seems like both methods turn the leg the same way, but clockwise it's more fluid, less jammy. Does that make sense?

 

[Brychanus]

Thanks as always for the feedback, Sidewinder!

Totally makes sense. I've been struggling to get my butt pointed at the target, and I'm thinking maybe the way I'm corkscrewing into the back leg isn't quite right. It feels like I'm almost jamming that back hip, hitting a wall where I can't turn farther. Since your post, I've been playing around with more flex in the back leg, and I think it's allowing me to get better turn, although the balance is taking some getting used to. Thinking about getting the front leg in the position of your picture has been somewhat helpful.

Any additional tips or swing thoughts you have about that back leg corkscrew? Shawn Clement says the back leg must extend to get the hips to turn. Obviously the extension/rising I was doing wasn't quite right. Does thinking about pushing into the ground help? I think maybe I've been thinking counter clockwise corkscrew with leg/foot, but I think I've heard that it's supposed to be clockwise. Playing around with it now, it seems like both methods turn the leg the same way, but clockwise it's more fluid, less jammy. Does that make sense?

The move into the rear leg shouldn't feel like corkscrewing. It should feel like walking.

 

[DiscusMaximus]

Hey Brychanus,

That's interesting, I feel like in many of the videos posted for baseball and golf they mention a corkscrewing feeling. Do we differ from those sports in that way because they are standing still and we're moving into our plant?

 

[Brychanus]

Hey Brychanus,

That's interesting, I feel like in many of the videos posted for baseball and golf they mention a corkscrewing feeling. Do we differ from those sports in that way because they are standing still and we're moving into our plant?

It could be a difference in instruction & assumptions about mechanics, or just a difference in words.

There are some motions that people teach that involve more rotation and "spinning" into the rear leg that could be described as a corkscrew.

If you subscribe to the weight shift theory most of DGCR discusses (and I do after a lot of critical interactions, FWIW), the action is ideally more like walking (athletically) or running or hopping, which causes rotations while in good leverage. Similar to this gal:

Notice how she's athletic and compressed against the ground, but "walking" the weight back and forth. Same idea as sidewinder's elephant walk.

There's another way to throw the ball or disc that involves more rotation in the rear leg, but it is (1) not using the ground as forcefully and (2) tends to mean you throw off axis and balance because the weight is yanking you around to an extent. Also probably harder on the hips in the long run because there is less powerful supporting musculature and the joint is shearing rather than swiveling naturally.

Otherwise, I do think there is the experience of odd coiling and leverage into the weird leg when you let it relax into internal rotation before shifting your weight forward. That felt very unusual to me for maybe the first 6 months of learning it. It is the same thing that happens when walking or running, but most people don't have a full range of motion in leverage moving more sideways like the BH. I still work on it.

 

[DiscusMaximus]

Very Interesting! Thanks very much for clarification.

I'll meditate and do some practice with this concept to see if I can't figure out how to incorporate it.

The way you refer to the image makes it seem like it should be moving like a gif, but it's a standstill image for me. If it was supposed to just be an image, disregard.

 

[Brychanus]

Very Interesting! Thanks very much for clarification.

I'll meditate and do some practice with this concept to see if I can't figure out how to incorporate it.

The way you refer to the image makes it seem like it should be moving like a gif, but it's a standstill image for me. If it was supposed to just be an image, disregard.

YW! Tried to fix it, lmk!

If you are having trouble with the rear foot anchored to the ground, I do think doing elephant walk or literally a medicine ball walking toss are good to try. I had to do a bit of back and forth between that and Hershyzer over time to get my body to follow along. And always can work on posture.

 

[sidewinder22]

There is a corkscrew feeling especially in standstill, it's lessened in x-step because momentum doesn't reverse in transition.
This video changed my life although I had to watch like 100 times to finally get it.

 

[Brychanus]

There is a corkscrew feeling especially in standstill, it's lessened in x-step because momentum doesn't reverse in transition.
This video changed my life although I had to watch like 100 times to finally get it.

Yeah, I'm still learning new things every time I look at this.

I think what I'm worrying about is if he feels any twisting/torsion at the joints (bad "corkscrew") vs. the Figure 8-style corkscrew (whole motion pattern) which is hopefully what we should be taking away from "The Move"

 

[DiscusMaximus]

I haven't watched it 100 times yet, but I'm at least in the teens haha. That was one of the videos I had in mind. I think I'm getting the motion pattern down a little better, but will get out in the field again soon to see if it makes a difference.

Gif was working now, Brychanus, thanks!

 

[DiscusMaximus]

Been hard at work, and I think I'm making progress.

I think my footwork is better and the disc is definitely feeling different as it moves through the pocket and as I release. A power pocket is actually starting to form for the first time, even if it's ugly. Haven't gained much distance though. As I'm working through these new feelings I'm trying to understand how to compress in the pocket, thumb push/pronation, and I think I'm still dragging the disc into release vs. popping it out. Not quite sure how to apply power in the pocket properly. I wasn't doing it in this video, but I later think I figured out how to grab the door frame. I always thought it was just a position to be in, but if I imagined I actually grabbed something back there it felt like it was easier to lag. Haven't tried it with a disc though yet, but thinking it might be part of the answer to releasing correctly. Any tips that you might have around those three things would be really helpful.

Anything other areas for improvement are welcome as always! I still need to clean up the off arm (kinda feeling how it can help resist rotation now), load better on the drive leg. and figure out how to throw nose down and hyzer/anhyzer with the way the disc is coming out now (especially nose down, so many sky balls).

 

[sidewinder22]

You are still pushing upward on the rear leg while striding into the plant. Maybe put your rear foot up on a cinder block so you have to drop down from it and reverse you vertical pattern. Or Double Crush the Can like Kyle Berkshire.

You end up collapsing on front leg instead of standing up on it and pivoting into the finish.