Future disc golf companies

[ProOffense]

That's a good point. Here we are worried about somebody stepping in and selling crap discs at Walmart, but what happens if you go to a sporting goods store looking for your first disc? You'll walk out with a warp speed driver with a cool name. Possibly tie dye.

History seems to repeat itself, constantly...

 

[ZMan44]

I sincerely hope that I am dead before I see discs at suckmart.

I am not sure where you live in Tennessee, but the Wal-Mart in Smyrna is stocked with Innova DX and Pro-Line discs and has been for nearly 2 years now. The selection is actually not bad. When they first began carrying discs, they didn't know what they were doing, and they would occasionally get the 150-class KC Pro (Champion looking) Gazelles and Cheetahs. I remember buying one of each of these for $6.99 because Wal-Mart thought all of the discs were the same price regardless of plastic.

In short, Wal-Mart is already carrying discs, and Smyrna, Tennessee is not the only place this is true. As far as corporate intrusion, if Innova, Discraft, and the rest continue to make a quality product, a market will still exist for them. If they lower standards because of the entrance of inferior products, they will wither away. Differentiate your product and you survive. It's that simple.

 

[MikePinchico]

People who have helped build this sport and the loyal people who help build and maintain courses are the ones who help dictate demand. If you go out on the course and you see a noob throwing a crap disc, give them your two cents (in a nice way of course). Then throw you disc right next to the pin and show them you know what you are talking about. Things like that change people opinions sitting here complaining about Walmart does nothing. Capitalism is done by people spreading their opinions and spending money with the companies that put out good product. If Vibram wants to put big money into awesome tourneys and OK product that get people interested in the sport I support them. Just one man's opinion.

 

[crusadersounds]

If Wal-Mart started selling discs of their own production, a bunch of us would go down and check them out wouldn't we? Now granted, we've been around the sport and we would know better (probably just by looking at them but for sure by handling them). You talk to others and they then understand. That's the way this sport works: word of mouth, you talking to the other guy that was out playing by himself and you joined him. If Nike wants to jump in and have a go, you'd probably do the same for their discs. You'd check them out and see what they had. That's why most of us don't JUST throw Innova or Discraft. Personally, I have 4 brands in my bag because I like to try out different discs. Now the Nike ones are going to have a bigger price tag than the Wally World ones just because they have a swoosh on them.

But I like what somebody said earlier on in the thread, they can bring their big guns and maybe even make some quality products because of their big budgets, but at the end of the day, the people who have dedicated themselves to making our Z, CE, Opto, Champ plastics are going to run the game. Yeah, Nike has expensive ball golf clubs, but who are still the main companies? Callaway, Ping, TaylorMade. Just because Nike, Reebok, UnderArmour or whoever jumps in doesn't mean that it destroys the sport.

And as has been said, we're not big enough for them yet anyway, so keep playing the game, be the faithful followers of the sport and in 50 years if the "Big Dogs" come in, throw your beat in discs, buy from the "good ol' boys" and keep living the DG dream!

 

[discmeister]

It would change things if Innova or Discraft were bought out by a large corporation rather than try to compete with them.

 

[Lewis]

As a consumer, I generally expect competition in the free market to be a good thing. If Brand X swoops in and starts making high quality discs for less $, I'm not going to complain. If Brand Y starts selling poor quality discs for less $, big deal: you get what you pay for. If Brand Z starts selling poor quality discs for more $, they won't be able to compete.

I really don't see why this "issue," bothers anyone, unless they're worried that their personal friends at Innova or Gateway or wherever will go out of business because someone is doing it better for less. But I don't have any particular attachments to any particular manufacturer, and I don't have any particular fear that somebody at Nike or Wilson or Spalding or wherever will suddenly be able to make a better disc than the people who have been doing it for their whole lives.

 

[jeverett]

I really don't see why this "issue," bothers anyone, unless they're worried that their personal friends at Innova or Gateway or wherever will go out of business because someone is doing it better for less. But I don't have any particular attachments to any particular manufacturer, and I don't have any particular fear that somebody at Nike or Wilson or Spalding or wherever will suddenly be able to make a better disc than the people who have been doing it for their whole lives.

Personally, I'd love to see greater innovation and research go into disc golf design and manufacturing, and bringing in larger companies could be one avenue for accomplishing that. The existing companies are unfortunately too driven by direct sales to really be able to devote resources toward innovation. Discwing, for example, has put probably the most research into disc golf flight mechanics of any company, but unfortunately their manufacturing methods and materials are somewhat sub-par.

Just as example of new research opportunities.. reducing skin surface drag (one of the three forms of friction involved in fixed-wing flight) is a big topic in aerodynamics, with a lot of potential for disc golf innovation. For example:

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/RT/RT1997/5000/5850hwang.htm

Note: the above method, 'microblowing', wouldn't work for disc golf by current PDGA specifications.

 

[wkelly42]

If anything, I think the smaller companies will band together rather than go under if a Big Name gets into the game. I could see ABC, Gateway, etc. joining forces (or even merging) to help each other stay afloat.

 

[Three Putt]

There have been some good comments here, it has helped me understand more of how a lot of you feel about the situation.

It's all "Crystal Ball" guessing, which is notoriously inaccurate. A lot of things could happen. Something that has already happened is that as disc have developed, they fly farther. Back in the day you were looking for 10-12 acres to design a 4,000' course. Now you are looking for 30-40 acres to design a 6,000-10,000' course with more distance between holes to accommodate how far off line we can throw these longer discs. The space the game now takes might put us in a crunch for appropriate sites for new courses, a development that might halt the expansion the sport has seen before we even get to a point where disc golf seems like an attractive market to outside companies.

Or, maybe not. It's hard to say.

Something I do know is that the old-time disc golf community was more of a "family" idea. When the Internet popped up as a viable retail option in the late 90's, the people I knew who had been selling discs expected protection from the manufacturers. The sentiment was that they had been in the sport, endured the lean years and now deserved to cash in as the sport got more popular. They felt like the manufacturers should not sell to some random new guy with a website, and most of the people I knew in the sport then agreed with them. They agreed with them because it involved people they knew. It wasn't "They should protect Disc Golf World," it was "They should protect Rick" because everybody knew Rick. Rick was part of the "family." As the sport grows, we lose some of that. Not everybody knows who Rick is anymore, and if you don't know him you are more likely to say "Eh, the market will shake it out."

That older sentiment still exists to some extent, because I know people who feel like Dave Dunipace should get some sort of protection from a company like Vibram because where would we be without Dave Dunipace? If you look at the market it seems funny to think that Innova should be protected from anybody, but that is how some of the older players see it.

 

[Fishy]

If wally world were to offer to by 100,000+ units per month from Innova or Discraft does anyone think that they would say "no"? That would be a dream come true for any equipment supplier! That would also mean that more people would get into it, would mean cities would see it as a good investment to make courses, and bottom line means that it would become a recognized sport.. Someone made a remark about touring pro's.. as little as they make if walmart were to offer them all their expenses paid if they put their logo on their back, I bet very few would say "No". I hope corporate America embraces the sport, would maybe give it a good name instead of when I say I play discgolf someone offers me a joint and a beer. That's not good public opinion, but it's true of a lot of the players in the area, so much that its what the general public here thinks, and as long as they think that they will be less willing to sponsor new courses. Just my .02.

 

[Fishy]

And about Vibram? I was thrilled to see them in a shop, was probably the greatest money I have spent on discs. I am new to the sport so I don't hold all the prejudices about plastics and who makes what that a lot of the older players seem to have. They brought something new to the table and it works for me, it works better in certain situations than anything else I have thrown. It has it's place, it's not the end-all beat-all by any means. If any other company decides it wants to put out a disc, by all means I'll be in the front of the line to test it, if it sucks it can collect mouse cr@p aswell, I have a bag of discs that I don't play with, and most of those are Innova and Discraft.
Just my .02

 

[great white buffalo]

If they want to compete they will have to buy real discs. It will be a turn off for people to play with known inferior discs. How many of you actually still use a Raging inferno?

this is true. but also crappy products have a way of falling out of the marketplace. Does Yugo come to mind? L.A. Gear? Jordache?

 

[ilmcgee]

There have been many valid points made in this thread. For a group of people that throw plastic (or rubber) at metal, a DGCR's member's sig, you all have good thoughts and ideas of our sport and where it is headed. The passion of the people here and other DG websites are the group that can keep the sport honest. Keep the companies that are interested in making quality product and profit in business. Keep out the companies that are looking for the quick buck and are in just because the bottom line looks good. We all are the people that can get more courses in and grow the sport. History has shown us that as any sport grows, it changes. All major sports are about the bottom line, making profit. That is something that we as players control though. We can choose those companies through our purchases.

The other way to choose those companies is through our peers. The ones that are made fun of on this site. The ones we laugh at for throwing Nukes and Bosses and the like on 150ft holes. New and newer players need help and guidance if they are to ever enjoy the sport. Between buying equipment proper to their skill level, being introduced to new courses, help with technique and course etiquette, we have alot to offer them.

My two cents.

 

[Sadjo]

I find this a great read. I do disagree with whomever posted that there isn't innovation in the sport. At one time the XD was the distance driver. Now its a putter/approach disc. I remember with the Stingray and Cobra were the top selling drivers and I remember when the Viper came out and changed everything.

All that was before Innova and Discraft started using different blends of plastic. The Innovations continue and I would bet that the Disc Golf Companies will continue to innovate for a long time.

A few years ago the longest disc for most players was a Wraith now the Katana, Boss, Nuke and other go even farther. Innovation is why the sport continues to grow.

 

[eegor]

I'm surprised that Walmart hasn't already teamed up with Lightning and stock their cheap, brightly colored discs and inexpensive, but pretty good quality bags. It isn't the end of the world for a noob to play with Lightning products. It may keep Lightning in business. Even Walmart knows that if it's too inferior to the market standard, they will lose money. That's why they're Walmart. It seems like a dream pairing. It would be nice to see a Walmart price on a DB-5.

Everyone is afraid of change to something they love. Vibram is a change that is resented by some. By going after the high end market, they are actually doing disc golf a valuable service. Better equipment, more money (advertising) and more interest will benefit the average disc golfer by increasing the image of disc golf to communities that haven't built courses... yet.

As far as the roots issue... where there is money to be made, a businessman will try to make it. They will come. There is nothing anyone can do to stop them.

I still remember my reaction to the Shark. What an awesome disc! The game was so much better with it. No one can stop change. Enjoy the good changes... don't support the bad ones and everything will work out.

 

[dreadlock86]

True golfers will still play with what matters but the loss of revenue will surely hamper the abilities of the long standing manufacturers to continue with TRUE disc golf innovation and the sport will see a plateau of development which would probably result in a digression of the sport.

i don't buy this at all. less innovation in disc technology will not produce a digression of the sport nor even necessarily a slowdown in its progress. have bosses, nukes and katanas really changed the game? how many players can actually utilize these discs to their potential? and you still see guys bombing fairway drivers nearly as far.

IMO, the next new direction in the development of disc golf is a honing of the technical craft on the part of the players. throwing technique is currently a grab bag of individual styles with varying degrees of effectiveness. a standardization of throwing technique that maximizes the potential for distance and accuracy while minimizing wasted energy and physical stress is the next level for disc golf.

you don't see pro ball golfers with radically different swings. sure some have their idiosyncrasies but in general, most good swings look about the same.

this is already happening at the top pro level in disc golf but it needs to start trickling down to the general population of players. sure, there will always be drunk frat boys that just want to go out with 1 disc and a case of beer but they should be playing at the "pitch and putt" courses like in ball golf or classing up the driving range, etc. meanwhile serious players should be learning technique from a decent teacher, just like any serious ball golf player would.

in short, disc golf doesn't need better discs. it needs better players.

 

[Travis1010]

this is true. but also crappy products have a way of falling out of the marketplace. Does Yugo come to mind? L.A. Gear? Jordache?

Your argument falls apart here. L.A. Gear was the #1 producer of light up shoes in the 1990's.

 

[lokirising]

I miss British Knights.

 

[Bglo]

If disc golf grew in popularity to the point where nike other big name companies are manufacturing discs, wouldnt that lead to an increase of people on the course, which would lead to more courses and more fun wouldnt it?

the way i see it is if more people are playing the sport, even if they are using crappy discs, the better it is for the sport of disc golf

 

[Sadjo]

have bosses, nukes and katanas really changed the game?

They've changed the game...it might be hard to recognize how it has changed. I've been playing for a long time...but I went from 1994 till 2006 where I played once or twice a year when I visited Minnesota and played with friends I grew up with. I would say I was 'seriously' involved in the sport from 1989 - 1994 and then again beginning in 2006.

While it might be hard to see how small changes in technology effected the sport, over time, yeah...my first new disc in 12 years was the Wraith. I remember playing the course in Estherville, IA and bombing that DX Wraith on hole 7 (420', slightly down hill) and getting a birdie. My longest disc before that was a Scorpion or Viper...and I wasn't getting in range to birdie that hole...or a few others in the area.

Also the change in plastics made a big difference. Don't buy a new disc for any reason for a dozen years and then try out what's new in 2023 and I beat there will be a difference.

disc golf doesn't need better discs. it needs better players.

The quality of play compared to even just a few years ago is amazing. Players are getting better. It is easy to see if you just watch.