Good Day on the Course...Taught Someone Snap in 2 Throws

[slowplastic]

Everyone learns differently, some ideas are obvious for some people, while others just will result in a blank stare. Today was good, I ran into someone I'd seen on the course before and we decided to play a couple of rounds together. This guy has been playing quite a bit I could tell, but was at a serious plateau/barricade. After our first round together, with him doing full X-step pro Valkyrie flex shots/forced annies for up to 250' on over half of the holes (including a couple of 220'ish holes) I could tell he wanted more distance and less fade. Not that I get huge distance, but I was throwing standstill drives 380-400 today so he could tell there was a technique rather than strength barrier. So between rounds I wanted to give him a couple of tips to see if it would help. Maybe this will click for someone here too.

First was just making sure grip was proper, as should be for anyone who you don't know what they're doing. Proper placement under the knuckle, thumb pressure, wrist orientation, the important stuff.

Then I tried to explain that throwing with the right snap/hit will feel different, like hitting the sweet spot on a bat compared to hitting the end cap. If you hit the end of the bat, it doesn't matter how hard you swing...it won't help much. I showed him the hammer pound/forearm stop type motion to get the wrist to slam open, but after 10 seconds I got a blank stare like "duh, of course your wrist opens if you stop your arm". I could tell this would be a waste of time (although this method has worked on tons of people).

So I tried what worked for me. Do a full reachback, then drive your arm/elbow forward to the right pec position, and stop. Your wrist should slam shut to the point where your disc nearly hits your forearm. It didn't happen? Try again. Get your elbow out there until when you stop your arm suddenly, your wrist slams shut. It's automatic. Try it again, and as soon as you feel your wrist starting to slam, then extend your elbow outwards (elbow chop). Your wrist should now fling open. That's it.

He felt that right away in drill mode so I just said chuck a disc. First disc was low but I could tell it had better spin. Second disc was a Roc3 (which he hated and never threw) that was suddenly about 250' straight without fade, from a standstill. For the entire round he threw from a standstill, and was getting 300' out of his Valkyrie consistently, much straighter, and on hyzer flips of reasonable height. The Roc was now his driver for half of the holes. Massive difference between round 1 and 2.

Maybe this technique tip will help someone else. But it was just incredible to see within 5 minutes of talking and throwing, his entire form changed. It was a super fun second round.

 

[TOB3RT]

If you can get a video of this (or direct me to one) that would be wonderful. I'm practicing what you wrote, but I want to know if I can get this exactly right.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Looking forward to talking more about this. I gave some help to a friend yesterday and shot some footage. I'll get it shared shortly, but I felt like we made similar progress.

Had to fix some balance problems first though. I'll get more into it later today... Great thread!

 

[RFrance]

Do a full reachback, then drive your arm/elbow forward to the right pec position, and stop. Your wrist should slam shut to the point where your disc nearly hits your forearm. It didn't happen? Try again. Get your elbow out there until when you stop your arm suddenly, your wrist slams shut. It's automatic. Try it again, and as soon as you feel your wrist starting to slam, then extend your elbow outwards (elbow chop). Your wrist should now fling open. That's it.
.

Slowplastic that sounds interesting. I'll be anxious to give it a try it this afternoon.

 

[Trevdor]

Mmmm... I must be dense. I can't visualize what you mean. In my motion my wrist only closes a little and not until my elbow is fully extended. You mean once I start to feel that small closing to then continue pushing my forearm out?

 

[slowplastic]

I don't have video but I made a couple of crude diagrams that show the positions I'm meaning.

Keep your wrist loose during this process. Do the first diagram until you feel the disc fling towards your forearm. Once you have that feel (you feel the weight of the disc), then try again, but as the feeling begins then open your elbow. The wrist should bounce open. This drill should automatically get you in an elbow-forward right pec position in order to get the disc to slam your wrist shut.

Let me know if this helps, I've tried teaching one person this method and the thought it was weird (but the hammer pound clicked for him), and then the other case I wrote about where this method worked perfectly.

Keep in mind this is a drill and things are exaggerated a bit. But once you have this feeling, try it in a throw with a smooth follow through. Once you can get this feeling in the throw the disc should fly straighter/glide longer. Then, all other form issues come into play as usual to get real distance.

 

[slowplastic]

Looking forward to talking more about this. I gave some help to a friend yesterday and shot some footage. I'll get it shared shortly, but I felt like we made similar progress.

Had to fix some balance problems first though. I'll get more into it later today... Great thread!

Yeah it feels awesome to see a huge jump for someone. There is a slightly downhill 320' and a bit more downhill 350' hole that he was about 20' away from on each drive, with standstill shots. It was just shocking how suddenly his power and consistent accuracy changed.

That being said, if anyone is trying to get this to work and doesn't see a distance change, don't worry. If it feels right, it is right. I didn't see any distance immediately, I was already throwing 330-350 so when this worked for me the distance wasn't any better. But, the discs had way more glide and less turn/fade. Then after a few sessions working with it I added a bit of distance each time. Focus on the feel, not on the distance you are getting.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Ian is a good friend of mine - and has one of the best forehands that I've seen in Colorado. He's able to shape shots FH that I would have said were impossible and his game is pretty much 100% FH for drives, BH for short approach.

http://www.pdga.com/player/49138

The last couple years he's played Open - and has cashed in most of the tournaments. He's a very solid player.

He wants to develop his backhand - and so after a round yesterday we spent some time working on some fundamentals.



Now, first off - this was maybe a 45m session. He's incredibly flexible and to be honest I was shocked at the improvement we were able to make, mostly because it took me months to make adjustments that he made in minutes!

He's still not hitting, but he's getting into the right positions. I will send him those diagrams... thanks.

I actually muttered "I think I'm a better coach than a player.... uhhhg."

 

[sidewinder22]

Ian is a good friend of mine - and has one of the best forehands that I've seen in Colorado. He's able to shape shots FH that I would have said were impossible and his game is pretty much 100% FH for drives, BH for short approach.

http://www.pdga.com/player/49138

The last couple years he's played Open - and has cashed in most of the tournaments. He's a very solid player.

He wants to develop his backhand - and so after a round yesterday we spent some time working on some fundamentals.


Now, first off - this was maybe a 45m session. He's incredibly flexible and to be honest I was shocked at the improvement we were able to make, mostly because it took me months to make adjustments that he made in minutes!

He's still not hitting, but he's getting into the right positions. I will send him those diagrams... thanks.

I actually muttered "I think I'm a better coach than a player.... uhhhg."

He went from his weight being on the outside edge of the ski/skate, to staying on the inside edge of the blade.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

He went from his weight being on the outside edge of the ski/skate, to staying on the inside edge of the blade.

Exactly - and here's the kicker, he goes "I'm actually left handed for baseball and hockey."

"uhhhh, what? Well, do your hips for a hockey shot!"

Boom, inside of plant foot!

 

[kfeldt]

I don't have video but I made a couple of crude diagrams that show the positions I'm meaning.

Keep your wrist loose during this process. Do the first diagram until you feel the disc fling towards your forearm. Once you have that feel (you feel the weight of the disc), then try again, but as the feeling begins then open your elbow. The wrist should bounce open. This drill should automatically get you in an elbow-forward right pec position in order to get the disc to slam your wrist shut.

Let me know if this helps, I've tried teaching one person this method and the thought it was weird (but the hammer pound clicked for him), and then the other case I wrote about where this method worked perfectly.

Keep in mind this is a drill and things are exaggerated a bit. But once you have this feeling, try it in a throw with a smooth follow through. Once you can get this feeling in the throw the disc should fly straighter/glide longer. Then, all other form issues come into play as usual to get real distance.

I'm a fairly new player and have been working on my technique over the past couple weeks. I've been slowly improving, but for whatever reason, this drill really helped things come together for me. I didn't have a full field to practice on last night (I was throwing into the base of a hill), but I was getting good straight consistent flights out of my discs, and the discs were hitting the hill really hard. I'm anxious to try this out where I can really let the discs fly!

Thanks to everyone that posts all this great technique info. It's really helpful for a new player!

Keith

 

[slowplastic]

^Awesome! It may be even better that you were just throwing without caring/seeing how far they went. Lets you be free to just get the feeling right on release and not concerned with how far things go. The fact that they seemed to come out with more glide/speed is great, you're probably getting to a new form.

I'm really happy that this has helped someone out even without being able to show them in person.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

http://heavydisc.blogspot.com/2014/10/gentlemen-we-can-rebuild-him.html

Hope you don't mind me sharing your diagrams w/ the HeavyDisc readers. I think it's a great drill to add into the mix.

 

[slowplastic]

Yep, good nice long writeup there. Hopefully it clicks for someone else.

If you get any feedback/results with that please update the thread too.

 

[DiscFifty]

I don't have video but I made a couple of crude diagrams that show the positions I'm meaning.

Keep your wrist loose during this process. Do the first diagram until you feel the disc fling towards your forearm. Once you have that feel (you feel the weight of the disc), then try again, but as the feeling begins then open your elbow. The wrist should bounce open. This drill should automatically get you in an elbow-forward right pec position in order to get the disc to slam your wrist shut.

Let me know if this helps, I've tried teaching one person this method and the thought it was weird (but the hammer pound clicked for him), and then the other case I wrote about where this method worked perfectly.

Keep in mind this is a drill and things are exaggerated a bit. But once you have this feeling, try it in a throw with a smooth follow through. Once you can get this feeling in the throw the disc should fly straighter/glide longer. Then, all other form issues come into play as usual to get real distance.

hmm.. I may (or may not of) had an epiphany. It's 3:00am here so I can't test it out for another few hours. lol.. But as I started to test out this drill I all of a sudden felt a "whip" in my wrist where I thought the disc was going to come out of my hands. The whipping sensation is right where the wrist comes in (step 1 in your pics) and then goes out when the elbow is opened up (step 2). Doing it indoors without releasing the disc or a proper follow through, it almost feels like I could snap my wrist, it's feeling very...very..strong/whiping, etc. It almost seems like the more "relaxed" I make my wrist the more whipping sensation is happening. Before I go out to do some field work, I wanted to know if this the correct sensation I should be happening or perhaps I'm about to break my wrist if I keep this up!?! lol...

Also....PLEASE take the drawing to the next level and film yourself with an overhead view, in slo-mo where you can really...see the wrist at work and how it's behaving during this exercise and also during your actual throws, that would be super helpful! Thanks for your continued input, good stuff!!

 

[slowplastic]

That is exactly the feeling you should have. It kind of whips outwards. I use the word bounce because when doing it in a certain tempo it's an "in-out" feel. Everyone is a bit different though.

Keep in mind that after you get it working, providing a bit of tension in the wrist (like a powerful spring) will yield more of this bounce...you won't need a massive range of motion in the wrist. But play with it at first to get this sensation, it will likely take several field sessions/rounds until you can get this right on nearly every throw. Over time you can make it stronger/reinforce it.

Glad to hear it's feeling right, let us know how it goes when you do it in throws! Just be nice and easy with the throws and focus on that feel rather than speed or power. The feel is everything.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

And in my case, adding the X-step in the beginning killed the sensation. I could get it with the stand still - adding a step would make it fall apart because I would change my balance and plant foot stride length.

 

[slowplastic]

And in my case, adding the X-step in the beginning killed the sensation. I could get it with the stand still - adding a step would make it fall apart because I would change my balance and plant foot stride length.

I'm still there. I get about the same distance standstill as X-step because what momentum/power the X-step adds, it also removes a little from my timing. I used to actually throw worse with an X-step a little while ago.

So this is a potential warning to try to incorporate this technique at first from standstill, to make sure the feel is right.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

The best suggestion I have is to scrap any step that doesn't put you into same position that you are in when hitting with the standstill.

Trying to use the flawed step will set you up for a long struggle. I will try to shoot a quick video today showing how I added the steps back in while protecting the feeling.

 

[luckless_pedestrian]

Wow. I can't wait to go try this. I *think* I'm getting the feeling here in the office but I need to actually throw now.

And I think if you watch Mike's wrist here, that's what he's doing.