Good Day on the Course...Taught Someone Snap in 2 Throws

[HyzerUniBomber]

So with about 4 spare minutes before I had to run the kids to school, I managed to get into the backyard and shoot this.

I wasn't adding a full backswing to this motion, because if I did - that putter would be coming out of my hand. I almost lost it a few times with a shortened backswing.

I can't stress it enough: the back foot should stay off the heel.

It's a cornerstone to coming through in the right posture.

I was throwing in the field the other day, and out of curiosity I purposefully drove off my heel - lifting my toes. Immediately screwed up my balance, dropped the shoulder, turned over the disc.

Next throw, heel up - better posture - balanced flat release.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Wow. I can't wait to go try this. I *think* I'm getting the feeling here in the office but I need to actually throw now.

And I think if you watch Mike's wrist here, that's what he's doing.

Mike's probably actively unloading his wrist (full hitting) after wrist bounce.

 

[_dj_]

is there a reason that when you were adding in the 1st x-step (between 1:15 and 1:40) that your left leg was going in front of your right leg? it seems when you added the 2nd x-step, you corrected this.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

is there a reason that when you were adding in the 1st x-step (between 1:15 and 1:40) that your left leg was going in front of your right leg? it seems when you added the 2nd x-step, you corrected this.

I didn't notice that (good catch). I think it was just a balance thing. Standing in that position with the plant foot behind your back foot is teetery at best.

 

[slowplastic]

Nice, thanks for the video. I hope the visualization will help some people with the drill, especially combined with some of the overhead shots of Mike C.

That's kind of the approach I was trying to take to add steps before going back to just standstills again to make sure my timing is still right. But watching you kind of measure out the steps before taking them was interesting for consistency. I'll perhaps be a bit more careful for consistency until I can get the hit every time with some added steps and speed.

 

[slowplastic]

Mike's probably actively unloading his wrist (full hitting) after wrist bounce.

I have trouble with consciously feeling this...after I got the timing/positions right for getting that wrist hinge happening I experimented with wrist muscles. I know things are a bit different than having a completely loose wrist like I suggest in the drill, but I don't know how much I am just adding tension/resistance vs. actually opening my wrist a bit.

I feel the most important thing is to wait until this whole thing is happening to really try to accelerate the shoulder.

Like I have mentioned earlier, when people are getting the feel for this, don't necessarily expect to add 50' or 100'. If you feel the technique and flight is better, you're doing it right. As you get more comfortable with it, you can keep adding more muscle to it and improving the timing at all portions, and distance gains creep in. I just never experienced the jump to "half hit" and "full hit" listed distances...things just gradually got further for me over a few week period, and then it became quite noticeable.

[Maybe also I am not "full hitting" and that's why I never saw that jump...but anyways feel free to experiment with wrist strength once you get the feel for this with a looser wrist, to anyone trying this stuff.]

 

[CreemCheese]

I've been experimenting with this, inside, no disc in hand. Just trying to get the feel for when to accelerate and what not. Some of the time it feels like a pulling, not painful, on the inside of my elbow and wrist as they open, not feeling it much in the shoulder. Is this a good thing and what I should be trying to repeat? When I try getting a comparison to my old, flawed technique of strongarming and OAT I feel I tremendous pull in the shoulder and certain times pain in the shoulder and outside of elbow.

 

[DiscFifty]

Thanks for all the continued info/video/tips etc in this thread. Quickly becoming TOTY! Still haven't done any field work, hoping to find some time in the next few hours, will report back my initial results.

 

[luckless_pedestrian]

I played a quick little round at lunch and I would have been better throwing in a field. Had a couple good throws but not really what I needed. I think HUB's video will be helpful, too.

 

[Dan Ensor]

I have trouble with consciously feeling this...after I got the timing/positions right for getting that wrist hinge happening I experimented with wrist muscles. I know things are a bit different than having a completely loose wrist like I suggest in the drill, but I don't know how much I am just adding tension/resistance vs. actually opening my wrist a bit.

I feel the most important thing is to wait until this whole thing is happening to really try to accelerate the shoulder.

Like I have mentioned earlier, when people are getting the feel for this, don't necessarily expect to add 50' or 100'. If you feel the technique and flight is better, you're doing it right. As you get more comfortable with it, you can keep adding more muscle to it and improving the timing at all portions, and distance gains creep in. I just never experienced the jump to "half hit" and "full hit" listed distances...things just gradually got further for me over a few week period, and then it became quite noticeable.

[Maybe also I am not "full hitting" and that's why I never saw that jump...but anyways feel free to experiment with wrist strength once you get the feel for this with a looser wrist, to anyone trying this stuff.]

Well, there are more and less powerful half-hits. And I'm sure, more and less powerful full hits. I don't think I'm full hitting. The numbers are guidelines, and a full/half hit both get distance from other mechanics also. So distance gains are often gradual, even when you have breakthroughs.

 

[slowplastic]

I've been experimenting with this, inside, no disc in hand. Just trying to get the feel for when to accelerate and what not. Some of the time it feels like a pulling, not painful, on the inside of my elbow and wrist as they open, not feeling it much in the shoulder. Is this a good thing and what I should be trying to repeat? When I try getting a comparison to my old, flawed technique of strongarming and OAT I feel I tremendous pull in the shoulder and certain times pain in the shoulder and outside of elbow.

All you should be feeling is the wrist wanting to close, and then open. That's the main thing. It's an additional hinge. You need it to be working to add significant power/spin to the disc...it's like adding another pulley to lift a load.

The pulling feeling with elbow/wrist is likely from trying this drill without a disc, and without throwing...likely overextension. You're likely trying to accelerate and stop abruptly. This is just a drill to get the feeling. Once you have the feeling, then do it in a real throw. In a real throw there should be smooth follow through with everything swinging around, so nothing should be extending too far to hurt or pull.

The shoulder I speak of...is remembering to swing your arm around with your shoulder when you actually throw. In this drill I have drawn it without the shoulder doing much, to really help focus on the wrist and its relation to elbow position/timing.

I realize some of these things are a little vague, but in the ways of Blake at DGR I am keeping it a little bit vague on purpose. This drill is to help people have an epiphany of what it feels like for the wrist to close (load) then open/extend. It then has to be incorporated into your own throw. If you know how it feels, then you can do it in a throw. If the throw doesn't have that feeling, then something is wrong, and you need to try a slightly different timing/position. It's very self correcting. If you round your arm instead of pulling straight, the wrist never closes. If you don't get into a right pec/elbow forward position, the wrist doesn't load.

 

[slowplastic]

Well, there are more and less powerful half-hits. And I'm sure, more and less powerful full hits. I don't think I'm full hitting. The numbers are guidelines, and a full/half hit both get distance from other mechanics also. So distance gains are often gradual, even when you have breakthroughs.

I agree with this. I definitely know I tense my wrist up and try to give it a bit of "something", but if that counts as a half or full hit I really don't know.

I guess I don't really know how my #'s compare to the rough guidelines until I add in a proper X-step to really compare, as right now I'm guessing on some stuff. But it's very true that the other mechanics play a massive role in power transfer and efficiency. As much as some people say that snap is everything...it is the most important to have...but if you want to throw far then the body positions have to be perfect to give you the power transfer.

 

[ksixkillerx]

hitting

In regards to "full hitting" and "half hitting", I personally feel like I am a "half hitter" the majority of the time. I still manage to average throw ~350ft on course controlled give or take a few feet. However the flight characteristics seem to be lacking or not quite where they should be. This leads me to throw understable discs and anny shots not so well because I don't think I get the full amount of spin needed on them to fly as intended but I get them up to speed so the distance is there.... any ideas? or input?

 

[slowplastic]

I would say firm up the wrist at the point of impact, and try a little bit of a push "through" with the wrist. Just make the hit powerful.

You know on a forehand how you flick the wrist just that 1" but it's a firm flick? I suck at forehands but even I know that feel. Think of that for a backhand. Just a firm motion at the right time.

When you say understable discs...which models/what speed range are you throwing for 350'?

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I'm hitting 430-440' with a Tern or a Renegade thrown flat on flat ground. I am not full hitting... for certain.

Let's cover full hitting so that we're at least using the same definitions - I think of it as getting all the angles right including a well formed mechanic AND actively forcing your wrist open in the last micro seconds before the disc ejects.

So to go back to the drill:

... in order to FULL hit, it's more than flinging the wrist open passively - it's extending your wrist open about 1" during that extension that happens after the wrist is fully loaded.

Half hitting would be letting the disc load up your wrist and using the bounce to fling open pivoting out of the grip. That's what I do and I try to time it with my shoulders so that there's some added benefit of the shoulder rotation adding to the pull:

I might be talking out my butt on the shoulder thing. I want to get some new video of some of my better distance drives. The screen cap above was not a great feeling drive and later on I started getting a different sensation that was more "aimed-shoulders".

 

[ksixkillerx]

I would say firm up the wrist at the point of impact, and try a little bit of a push "through" with the wrist. Just make the hit powerful.

You know on a forehand how you flick the wrist just that 1" but it's a firm flick? I suck at forehands but even I know that feel. Think of that for a backhand. Just a firm motion at the right time.

When you say understable discs...which models/what speed range are you throwing for 350'?

Champion Roadrunner, Champion tern(this guy i save for longer shots like 350 and up) in the field I can throw 400-450 with most of my distance drivers but we all know that field numbers are not the best to judge things off of

 

[CreemCheese]

Slow, thanks for replying. I think I'm getting the feeling that you describe. And good point about stopping, I'm not trying to ask, but probably do subconsciously. I can't get out for field work, as my wife's been putting in overtime and the weather has been to cold and wet to take my 19 month old son with me.

 

[bfowler]

I've found 2 distinct ways to sling the disc on a drive.

One way is to have the disc weight slam forward bending your wrist in towards your body, timing that bounce and flinging it out. I can do this really well with a three finger grip. I get more distance but less control with this but that's just me.

The second way is what I lean more towards. It more of a building speed towards the hit and snapping through it. This is more like hammer drills in my mind. The disc is already moving from the turning of your feet and torso pulling your arm and you're actively timing when to pull with your arm and/or snap with your wrist to aid to the speed/motion you've already build with the previous levers.

From the hundreds of youtubes watched of pros I've found that David Wiggins does the first type as he states in one of his video about how really lose he keeps his wrist and gets that bounce.

Most pros I think keep more of a firm wrist. Both can provide great results bu the first happens a lot faster and is harder to time. It's easier to get distance with consistently for me but I've found I'm much more accurate with the 2nd type and can get better max distance but that distance is more difficult to get.

Don't know if any of this helps but it's been my experience.

Right now my best results are coming from just focusing on keeping my disc on the same plane and releasing at a predetermined hit point a few feet straight in front of me. I know the disc really releases earlier but it feels like I'm releasing it straight in front of me and my hip open up to fully face the target.

 

[slowplastic]

Champion Roadrunner, Champion tern(this guy i save for longer shots like 350 and up) in the field I can throw 400-450 with most of my distance drivers but we all know that field numbers are not the best to judge things off of

Well I can't help you out with distance really, but what are you concerned about for flight of the understable discs? Do they turn too much? Are they unpredictable? How do your putters or neutral mids fly, and how far?

 

[ksixkillerx]

Well I can't help you out with distance really, but what are you concerned about for flight of the understable discs? Do they turn too much? Are they unpredictable? How do your putters or neutral mids fly, and how far?

Understable discs should turn.... mine don't always turn. Now on the off chance I do get them to turn as intended, its for a short period of its flight and from then on its fade fade fade... distance is not the issue here.... I have a "big arm" and if i need distance I can crank distance. I believe my problem is not getting enough spin on the discs to allow them to fly as they are intended to fly. with a "full hit" both the distance and flight characteristics are achieved... ive been a "half hitter" all my disc career and it took this post to realize it.