Hanging baskets at tournaments... Appropriate or not?

[j_mardis]

The effort by course designers to create interesting and challenging holes is always a good thing. Hanging baskets are an option that some choose to employ, but is it appropriate for a temporary hole at a PDGA event?

What say you?

 

[corin_brown]

I think it's cool.

 

[Pbmercil]

Appropriate? Sure

Do I like it? Not really

 

[goosefraba1]

Appropriate? Sure

Do I like it? Not really

This... however, if there isn't much elevation change or woods, do what you gotta do.

 

[1978]

The effort by course designers to create interesting and challenging holes is always a good thing. Hanging baskets are an option that some choose to employ, but is it appropriate for a temporary hole at a PDGA event?

What say you?

Not sure if it is legal at a PDGA event...however I could be wrong. When we planned to have Worlds in Charlotte, we were going to use Brackets Bluff. They have a hanging basket. The PDGA said we would have to mount a pole underneath so that it was anchored for the tournament. Baskets couldnt swing freely, but they could be raised. Never knew if it was an actual rule, just knew we were asked to do this by the PDGA and so had it in the plans.

 

[j_mardis]

Baskets couldnt swing freely, but they could be raised. Never knew if it was an actual rule, just knew we were asked to do this by the PDGA and so had it in the plans.

Interesting. Is the TD required to communicate with the PDGA on course changes? Could the tournament have its sanctioning pulled?

 

[DavidSauls]

Legal, fun, perfectly appropriate for tournaments. Except.....

At Majors and NTs, with a lot more on the line than your local C-tier, perhaps not such a good idea. (Though I played on one at Am Worlds once).

 

[DavidSauls]

Not sure if it is legal at a PDGA event...however I could be wrong. When we planned to have Worlds in Charlotte, we were going to use Brackets Bluff. They have a hanging basket. The PDGA said we would have to mount a pole underneath so that it was anchored for the tournament. Baskets couldnt swing freely, but they could be raised. Never knew if it was an actual rule, just knew we were asked to do this by the PDGA and so had it in the plans.

Interesting. Is the TD required to communicate with the PDGA on course changes? Could the tournament have its sanctioning pulled?

That's the PDGA's review of Worlds courses. Doesn't affect the other 99% of tournaments.

 

[sloppydisc]

Waiting for Mando to chime in. Sugaree has some weak looking baskets, but I've never had a bad bounce or shot I felt cheated on. Hang 'em all I say. Who needs concrete and all that crap!??

 

[DavidSauls]

Waiting for Mando to chime in. Sugaree has some weak looking baskets, but I've never had a bad bounce or shot I felt cheated on. Hang 'em all I say. Who needs concrete and all that crap!??

Would you rather (1) play a tournament at Sugaree on those hanging baskets or (2) not play a tournament there at all, because Rich likes them but some powers-that-be don't?

I'd play a tournament on them in a heartbeat.

I've played tournaments on at least 4 courses that had hanging baskets. I'd gladly replay tournaments on any of them.

 

[sloppydisc]

Wrong question for me. I wouldn't play a tournament anywhere for the most part. Other than a local casual tourney with few players. I don't have the time or patience for the brilliance of tourney play. But I did once play and cook burgers and dogs at Sugaree.

 

[sjberry2017]

I know they're legal for C-tier play because I play in the Easter Seals Classic at the Hippodrome this past summer and the hanging baskets on Hogback and Old Glory were still hanging and hadn't been mounted on poles for the event; there's also a buried basket on Old Glory. The Hippodrome also hosts the National Collegiate Championships, so it seems likely that there isn't anything against the rules about hanging baskets. Now if they're a good idea or not is a completely different discussion, although I personally have no problem with them

 

[Cgkdisc]

From the PDGA Course Design Guidelines:
"Targets suspended from above can be fun for recreational play but there should be a way to secure it from swinging freely during sanctioned play."

 

[DavidSauls]

....which is far from being a rule, especially since the sanctioning agreement doesn't require a course to conform to PDGA Course Design Guidelines.

For what it's worth, the hanging basket at Stoney Hill hardly ever swings at all, except by human action; otherwise, it takes gale force winds to sway it.

While you're here, Chuck, and in relation to earlier posts---what is the PDGA's level of control in majors and NTs? Is it advisory, strongly advisory, or do the hosts, in their bids, agree to changes as demanded by the PGDA?

 

[Ender175]

Didn't the gbo or gcc have a hanging basket this year? Not sure if either is an NT, but they both had all the top players there.

 

[Cgkdisc]

....which is far from being a rule, especially since the sanctioning agreement doesn't require a course to conform to PDGA Course Design Guidelines.

For what it's worth, the hanging basket at Stoney Hill hardly ever swings at all, except by human action; otherwise, it takes gale force winds to sway it.

While you're here, Chuck, and in relation to earlier posts---what is the PDGA's level of control in majors and NTs? Is it advisory, strongly advisory, or do the hosts, in their bids, agree to changes as demanded by the PGDA?

The art of persuasion is applied by various PDGA connected personnel when concerns are observed or arise in advance. Some issues may be more cut and dried requiring the host to make changes. But in the case of course elements, sometimes the course owner will not make the changes so we end up with some less than optimum situations we all need to live with at the event.

 

[DavidSauls]

Thanks, Chuck.

 

[sloppydisc]

From the PDGA Course Design Guidelines:
"Targets suspended from above can be fun for recreational play but there should be a way to secure it from swinging freely during sanctioned play."

Mando added some rebar coming up from the ground to keep the baskets from swinging wildly. They'll still shift a little, but they don't swing freely. Besides, I remember discussions where most people think putting is too easy for the top players. Maybe some hanging baskets with a little bit of swinging in the wind would fix that.

 

[DinosaurThunder]

Hanging baskets are just like elevated baskets in my mind. I have never seen one blowing wildly in the wind or moving excessively after someone on my card putts. I think it is good fun and adds a nice challenge to casual and tourney rounds. Some people view them as gimmicks and that is why I think the NT tends to stay away from them. I don't find putting at a hanging basket any harder than throwing to an island hole (or something similar that adds an element to the hole), so it is cool by me.

 

[DavidSauls]

Hanging baskets are just like elevated baskets in my mind. I have never seen one blowing wildly in the wind or moving excessively after someone on my card putts. I think it is good fun and adds a nice challenge to casual and tourney rounds. Some people view them as gimmicks and that is why I think the NT tends to stay away from them. I don't find putting at a hanging basket any harder than throwing to an island hole (or something similar that adds an element to the hole), so it is cool by me.

I'm not quite sure why people have them. Even though we have one at Stoney Hill.

They look cool, and fun factor can't be entirely dismissed. Part of the effect is the changed perspective in judging distance, caused by the fact that there's no pole connecting the basket to the ground.

Also, at least in our case, low shots are never stopped by the pole, but keep going. In the course of play, low shots that pass where the pole might have been are much more common than high shots that hit the chain.

I've played tournaments on at least 4 courses that had hanging baskets. I'd gladly replay tournaments on any of them.

Or 5. The old Gran Canyon course in Brooksville, FL, Trophy Lakes, Stonehenge at the 2001 Am Worlds in Nashville, the Hippodrome, and of course Stoney Hill come to mind. All pretty good courses, and except Stoney Hill, some pretty big tournaments held on them.