Has this ever happened?

[BrotherDave]

Suppose a person not playing a tournament is watching a tourney round and notices a disc thrown looks really familiar. He goes over there, examines it, and sure enough it's one of his recently (< 1 yr) lost discs with his contact info on it. The tourney player had found the disc* and effectively stole it by not trying to return it. The spectator reclaims his property, reads the thrower the riot act and storms off. Has anyone ever witnessed something like this and what's the rule procedure for a disc used in play being taken away by a 3rd party? opcorn:

804.03 C: A thrown disc at rest that has been moved shall be replaced to its approximate position (see 802.02.E). A marker disc at rest that has been moved shall be replaced to mark the approximate lie (see 802.03.F).

Closest I can think of, but if it was removed unseen from all the players then an approximate position would be hard to determine.


*for the sake of inevitable thread drift let's assume the disc was found easily i.e. not a pond rescue so tourney guy is guilty of laziness at least.

 

[cleav]

I think of random stuff when I'm stoned too.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[BionicRib]

Videos or nothing anybody says in this thread is true...

....no hippos please

 

[Broken Shoulder]

You're not going to be able to replace the exact disc in its approximate location if the dude leaves with it. My first thought would be that it would be declared a lost disc. So apply that rule and then call him a douche, I guess.

 

[7ontheline]

I think of random stuff when I'm stoned too.

You're not going to be able to replace the exact disc in its approximate location if the dude leaves with it. My first thought would be that it would be declared a lost disc. So apply that rule and then call him a douche, I guess.

Where is that "thanks" button for these two

 

[BrotherDave]

I think of random stuff when I'm stoned too.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Post reported for drug talk.

 

[7ontheline]

Another ridiculous [thanks] for the LOL, well "you started it"

gotta be in the running for thread of the year

Suppose an owl swooped down and dropped your throw in the basket. Is it an ace, or a warning for throwing an illegal disc given the owl's talons pierced the flight plate?

 

[Steve West]

"801.01 A. If any point in dispute is not covered by the rules, the decision shall be made in accordance with fairness. Often a logical extension of the closest existing rule or the principles embodied in these rules will provide guidance for determining fairness."

I would suggest playing it two ways provisionally and let the TD decide which rule is closest to the situation.

Provisional string of throws #1) Re-throw from the previous lie as if it were a lost disc, to cover:

"804.05 D D. If it is discovered, prior to the completion of the tournament, that a player's disc that was declared lost had been removed or taken, then the player shall have two throws removed from the score for that hole."

Provisional string of throws #2) Replace the thrown disc with another disc to cover either

"802.02 E If the thrown disc has moved after it first came to rest on the in-bounds playing surface, it shall be replaced to its approximate position."

or

"804.03 C. A thrown disc at rest that has been moved shall be replaced to its approximate position (see 802.02.E)." is the closest existing rule.

I would think marking the approximate lie with a marker for case 2 would also be fair.

 

[Steve West]

Another ridiculous [thanks] for the LOL, well "you started it"

gotta be in the running for thread of the year

Suppose an owl swooped down and dropped your throw in the basket. Is it an ace, or a warning for throwing an illegal disc given the owl's talons pierced the flight plate?

No, no, and no.

"802.02 Establishing Position
A. The thrown disc establishes a position where it first comes to rest.
B. A disc is considered to be at rest once it is no longer moving as a result of the momentum imparted by the throw. "

While it is true that

"801.02 C. A disc which is cracked or perforated is illegal."

the violating act is throwing it.

"E. A player who throws an illegal disc during play shall receive two penalty throws, without a warning."

The middle "no" is because there is no way for a warning to be part of the call.

 

[Flick Maniac]

For the owl business the crux is if the disc stopped moving before the owl grabbed it. If not, then ace.

We had a fox carry one of our LED discs around a few years back. We were looking at it wondering thats gotta be the strangest roll ever, until it could not be a roll by its own force anymore.

 

[DavidSauls]

Suppose a person not playing a tournament is watching a tourney round and notices a disc thrown looks really familiar. He goes over there, examines it, and sure enough it's one of his recently (< 1 yr) lost discs with his contact info on it. The tourney player had found the disc* and effectively stole it by not trying to return it. The spectator reclaims his property, reads the thrower the riot act and storms off. Has anyone ever witnessed something like this and what's the rule procedure for a disc used in play being taken away by a 3rd party? opcorn:


Closest I can think of, but if it was removed unseen from all the players then an approximate position would be hard to determine.


*for the sake of inevitable thread drift let's assume the disc was found easily i.e. not a pond rescue so tourney guy is guilty of laziness at least.

For the sake of inevitable thread drift, it doesn't matter how the tourney player ended up with the disc. Nor does it matter if the non-tourney-player is right or wrong.

If the group saw where the disc came to rest, you mark the approximate lie.

If the group didn't see it, I suspect you'd treat it as a lost disc. If a disc is lost, you rethrow with a penalty; if later discovered to have been moved by someone, you deduct 2 strokes. This would seem to be the closest rule, even though you know from the outset that it was removed.

If the aggrieved non-tournament player will tell you where the disc was, though, I suppose you could go with an approximate lie. But I think I'd throw a provisional.

 

[7ontheline]

While it is true that

"801.02 C. A disc which is cracked or perforated is illegal."

the violating act is throwing it.

"E. A player who throws an illegal disc during play shall receive two penalty throws, without a warning."

The middle "no" is because there is no way for a warning to be part of the call.

Who's to say that the Owl swooping in and catching the disc in mid air made the hole in the flight plate. There is no way to see the disc as the result of the 360 degree 700'+ throw. It's way too far to see if the talon was what penetrated the flight plate or if the thrower was just throwing an illegal disc that got noticed due to the extra attention his throw received as a result of the immaculate reception.

For the owl business the crux is if the disc stopped moving before the owl grabbed it. If not, then ace.

We had a fox carry one of our LED discs around a few years back. We were looking at it wondering thats gotta be the strangest roll ever, until it could not be a roll by its own force anymore.

Again, the disc did not stop moving it was in the air when it was redirected by the owl.opcorn: (first use of popcorn ever...I think)

 

[Hampstead]

I was playing a tourney and we were on a blind hole. I went to find my disc and noticed a family walking nearby. Little kid had my disc in his hand. We asked them to please put it back where he found it. The kid dropped it and ran away. My cardmates told me to just play it from there. I missed last cash by one stroke. To this day I still blame that kid.*



* I don't think the kid actually cost me a stroke but it's better to blame him than take responsibility for my poor play

 

[curt]

This is clearly not a lost disc situation. If someone grabs your disc, walks up to you. And says "hey this disc you just three is mine. I'm taking it back", then you know where the disc is. The lost disc rule 804.05.D deals with this exact situation, and make it clear that someone intentionally moving the disc isn't a lost disc. The interference rules say that you replace the disc to its approximate location and not exact location precisely because you can't find the exact location. The group should ask this guy where the disc was, and if he doesn't answer they make the best possible guess.

 

[Steve West]

Who's to say that the Owl swooping in and catching the disc in mid air made the hole in the flight plate. There is no way to see the disc as the result of the 360 degree 700'+ throw. It's way too far to see if the talon was what penetrated the flight plate or if the thrower was just throwing an illegal disc that got noticed due to the extra attention his throw received as a result of the immaculate reception.

Wasn't the "talon" mentioned as the reason for the hole? Even if it wasn't, "Players are expected to call a violation when one has clearly occurred." I don't think it would be clear enough (to me) that a talon-shaped hole that was first noticed after the group saw an owl carrying the disc was actually there when the player threw that disc. So, no call.

Again, the disc did not stop moving it was in the air when it was redirected by the owl.opcorn: (first use of popcorn ever...I think)

It did not stop moving, but it was "no longer moving as a result of the momentum imparted by the throw". It was moving as a result of the owl flapping. So, it was at rest.

A similar rule would be "A disc in water or foliage is considered to be at rest once it is moving only as a result of movement of the water, the foliage, or the wind." Or, by logical extension, the owl.

 

[ToddL]

It did not stop moving, but it was "no longer moving as a result of the momentum imparted by the throw". It was moving as a result of the owl flapping. So, it was at rest.

A similar rule would be "A disc in water or foliage is considered to be at rest once it is moving only as a result of movement of the water, the foliage, or the wind." Or, by logical extension, the owl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6vjQ6H37nA

When the wind starts blowing the disc backwards, hasn't the motion of the disc "as a result of the momentum imparted by the throw" stopped? It was moving as a result of the wind blowing.

When you throw a drive, it lands on the ground, stops moving, and then starts moving again (by dog, wind, person, ocean wave, whatever), you take your spot where it came to rest.
If you throw a drive and it is affected by an outside force (wind, limb, hitting a person in the chest), you just include that action as a part of the throw and take your spot where it eventually came to rest.

If a dog catches your disc near the end of the flight and runs off with it, I'd probably declare the fairness doctrine and take the spot near where the dog caught the disc.
If a bird catches your disc in the middle of its flight and flies away ... I dunno.

 

[new_sheets]

The guy probably bought it from PIAS and you just read him the riot act. Now who's the jerk???

 

[BrotherDave]

"804.05 D D. If it is discovered, prior to the completion of the tournament, that a player's disc that was declared lost had been removed or taken, then the player shall have two throws removed from the score for that hole."

Wait a second. If somebody steals my drive on a par 3 I get an ace on that hole?

The guy probably bought it from PIAS and you just read him the riot act. Now who's the jerk???

Those damn capitalists at PIAS. *shakes fist*

 

[JC17393]

Wait a second. If somebody steals my drive on a par 3 I get an ace on that hole?

If someone steals your drive and you finish the hole as if the disc were lost (because you didn't know the disc was stolen), then you probably didn't card a three on the hole. So no, you don't get an ace for that hole.

If by chance you did throw in the re-throw for a three, you'd end up with a one on the scorecard but it shouldn't be treated as an ace in terms of an ace fund.

 

[coupe]

When the wind starts blowing the disc backwards, hasn't the motion of the disc "as a result of the momentum imparted by the throw" stopped? It was moving as a result of the wind blowing.

No, because the momentum of a disc is not necessarily in the intended direction of the throw. The forward momentum of the throw may have stopped, but the vertical momentum imparted by the throw doesn't stop until the disc is comes to rest, whether on, above, or below the playing surface.

If a dog catches your disc near the end of the flight and runs off with it, I'd probably declare the fairness doctrine and take the spot near where the dog caught the disc.
If a bird catches your disc in the middle of its flight and flies away ... I dunno.

804.03.B