How did Prodigy get so big so fast?

[SD86]

Im kind of surprised that MVP isn't outnumbering a brand like for example Discmania

I'm not, considering that I can find Discmania discs in local PIAS and other stores, but it's hard(er) to find MVP/Axiom anywhere but online (and you have to be looking for that). MVP seems to be popular in the northern Midwest areas, but the South and the West (California) don't see as much MVP.

 

[SD86]

their 400 and 400g plastic is pretty damn good. it's some of the grippiest out there.

750 is bulletproof.

their base plastic is decent as well, their putters are nice and flat and with most of their options available in both premium and base/midgrade, you can cycle and pick your preference for shots vs slots.

they have good discs. the d series is alright, the h1 has basically redefined "beef" for this era of disc golf since the z extreme doesn't exist anymore and FAF firebirds are fluke runs. and cale is an amazing guy with a real passion for the sport. no surprise that prodigy has caught on here in MN. as far as the original explosion, it's because they finagled a bunch of big names from established companies. it was a great move. sure it may be settling down now, but i think prodigy is doing just fine.

financially how did they do it? no idea.

Agree. The base plastic is nice in their putters (I have the PA-4 in 300 as well as 400s plastic), the 400g is my favorite of their plastics. I don't have an H1, but the H4 is a really nice distance driver for me, and the F3 and M3 are good discs for me in their spheres.

As I said before, IMHO if Prodigy expands to get into more PIAS stores and maybe more "big box" stores, they'll do even better than they have to this point. But whatever their business model is, I hope they'll maximize on the good parts of it and be a major part of the DG game for some time.

 

[DirtyMeathook]

Im kind of surprised that MVP isn't outnumbering a brand like for example Discmania

Discmania is a subsidiary of the prohibited industry leader. The best player in the world carries 1 or 2 Discmania molds. Two of the most exciting players in the world, Simon and Eagle, are sponsored by Discmania. I'm a fan of MVP but I actually had the opposite reaction, surprised the gap between the two brands wasn't larger.

 

[Halcón]

Im kind of surprised that MVP isn't outnumbering a brand like for example Discmania

One pond in Fountain Hills isn't a very good indicator of which brand has higher worldwide sales.

Besides, who says that they are not outnumbering them?

 

[ZAMson]

Discmania is a subsidiary of the prohibited industry leader. The best player in the world carries 1 or 2 Discmania molds. Two of the most exciting players in the world, Simon and Eagle, are sponsored by Discmania. I'm a fan of MVP but I actually had the opposite reaction, surprised the gap between the two brands wasn't larger.

Exactly, we had one sponsored player at the event. It's literally an event full of people we're not trying to pay for their endorsement. Discmania was one of my sales accounts in 2006, essentially Innova Europe and doing a ton of business, and I got their first disc in March 07. There's (I don't know) how many years of big time distribution, and about 4 years' jump on MVP for the branded discs, plus a marketing strategy of paying the type of player who's at the Memorial.

So why you sinkin' plastic, Graham? opcorn:
Honestly no clue who else in that field would have one bagged, or how many players were there with unpaid bags.

 

[Dan Ensor]

One pond in Fountain Hills isn't a very good indicator of which brand has higher worldwide sales.

Besides, who says that they are not outnumbering them?

Exactly. Everybody knows Gyro (trademarked) is hydrophobic.

 

[Discette]

As far as the popularity of Prodigy, I can give my data from 258 discs pulled out of the water after The Memorial in Arizona. Granted, many of the players are from Arizona and California, but this is what we literally found. 53.1% were Innova, 9.7% were Discraft, 8.5% were Dynamic Discs, 5.4% were Latitude 64, 5.0% were Westside, 5.0% were Prodigy, 3.9% were Legacy, 3.5% were Discmania, 1.2% were Millenium, 1.2% were Prodiscus, 0.4% were MVP, and 0.4% were Vibram. Of those 258 discs, 60.5% were drivers, 15.5% were fairway drivers, 11.6% were midranges, and 12.4% were putters.

One pond in Fountain Hills isn't a very good indicator of which brand has higher worldwide sales.

Yet all the numbers from the Fountain are within a few percentage points of the results of this larger sample:

https://infinitediscs.com/blog/category/state-of-disc-golf-2015/

 

[Disc Golf Chuck]

One pond in Fountain Hills isn't a very good indicator of which brand has higher worldwide sales.

Just for informational purposes, 153 came from Fountain Hills, 104 came from Fiesta Lakes, and one was found floating at Vista Del Camino.

Honestly no clue who else in that field would have one bagged, or how many players were there with unpaid bags.

And also remember that there were over 300 amateurs playing in that tournament and many of them are not sponsored. And some of the discs found at Fountain Hills and Fiesta Lakes could have been lost by players that were not in The Memorial. It was just very interesting to see the breakdown of what was found, but the chart that Discette displayed from Infinite Discs seems to lend support to what found.

My personal opinion about Prodigy is similar to what has already been shared. In talking with one very large, mainly online retailer and one mostly brick-and-mortar retailer of disc golf merchandise, they both mentioned the inconsistency of Prodigy as the main reason why they don't carry as much as they used to in their stores. Also, one retailer said that they were upset by Prodigy who was using some local person who sold Prodigy discs out of the trunk of their car. The retailer said that it is hard to compete with someone who doesn't have to pay sales tax and who also doesn't have the other overhead expenses associated with a retail store. So Prodigy is hurting relationships by undercutting retailers and reducing demand amongst end users by pumping out inconsistent discs whose flight patterns are all over the map even when looking at the same mold.

Personally, I do like the D3, M2, and their 300 PA4, but I haven't purchased a Prodigy disc in two years.

 

[dashiellx]

Also, one retailer said that they were upset by Prodigy who was using some local person who sold Prodigy discs out of the trunk of their car.

Isn't this what a lot of the sponsored pros do day-to-day?

 

[ohtobediscing]

I know a few individuals who throw several Prodigy discs[strangely enough, in small towns where only a minor selection of standard discs are available, like La Grande OR and Saucier MS]. But I haven't disced anyplace where Prodigy is a fair percentage of many players' bags. Probably a result of their deficient manufacturing quality that first year, [ovals, UV fading] and their continuing inconsistency of plastic.

 

[cjman]

That retailer sounds like a real gem of a type B personality.

Anyone can order discs at wholesale cost from Discraft, yet I'm pretty sure this retailer carries them and takes their sponsorship money for his events, while choosing to gripe about Prodigy.

 

[SD86]

Also, one retailer said that they were upset by Prodigy who was using some local person who sold Prodigy discs out of the trunk of their car. The retailer said that it is hard to compete with someone who doesn't have to pay sales tax and who also doesn't have the other overhead expenses associated with a retail store. So Prodigy is hurting relationships by undercutting retailers...

I'm curious as to where you were told this. I was told something very similar here in the Atlanta area, though not specific to Prodigy discs. A retailer told me that companies were setting up vendors as MLMs, who were then selling discs out of their cars at prices below what he (the retailer) had to buy them for. This definitely could be an issue...

 

[ThomasOrion]

at first i had problems with their names as well. but i think it's far more intelligent than anything else. m is a midrange, where m1 is the most stable, m2 a bit less, and so on. m5 is really understable mid. same system for drivers: d1 most (over)stable, d2 a bit less,… etc. so what are the flightcharacteristics of a prodigy f1 and f7? yep, f1 is the most stable fairway they have and f7 the most understable.
while not perfect their names are way more informative than calling discs atoms, pigs and leopards.

Absolutely agree. Its the main reason I loved prodigy when it first came out. Now that I have tried a LOT of their discs, I realized, they aren't perfect either. But they do have some discs that are awesome:
My personal favorites are
Pa4: Understable putter. 300/350 for putt's 400 or 750 for a thrower...400 is my favorite
Pa3: Straight stable putter, low fade. 350 is great putter for the warmer months. Glow Pa3 great for stable throws
Pa1: nice stable flier, good HSS, not crazy OS at low speed, I dont use this one as much, but its a good putter. 300 are great for putting

M4: My personal favorite understable midrange I have used. 400G plastic 178+g...=understable $$$

F series were hit or miss, some F3's and F5's are sweet, but inconsistent in my experience so I switched those up, and really like my fairways now better

H, not a big fan, but H1 H2 are good OS as heck drivers

D series....D3 was nice, a D4 I had was good, but not a crazy fan, nice discs, just find the right ones for you I guess...they can range

 

[FredV]

Yet all the numbers from the Fountain are within a few percentage points of the results of this larger sample:

https://infinitediscs.com/blog/category/state-of-disc-golf-2015/

While the disc brands pulled out of the water may corrolate with the larger study of disc popularity, it may be useful to note that being in the water means that it is a sampling of unsuccessful throws. Pool occupancy and brands analysis can lead to some perverse conclusions: The best brand is that which swims least. I like sales records and distribution models for this.

 

[cjman]

I'm curious as to where you were told this. I was told something very similar here in the Atlanta area, though not specific to Prodigy discs. A retailer told me that companies were setting up vendors as MLMs, who were then selling discs out of their cars at prices below what he (the retailer) had to buy them for. This definitely could be an issue...

Historically, in order to buy at dealer prices, the only manufacturer that required you to have a physical store was Innova. I was told by my local retailer that Trilogy has begun requiring this as well.

Any of us can call Most companies and start our own shop out of our trunk. This is nothing new, it's been going on since the 90s. People have been ordering boxes of big releases at $8 a disc while others pay scalper prices for them two weeks later on FB.

Idk about selling them below the cost the store was able to get them at. That was probably an exaggeration. Although, I have sold discs for $5 before.

 

[ZAMson]

It's reasonable to sell to anyone and everyone who can order your wholesale minimum when a brand starts up; more hungry for exposure and people willing to take a chance on your brand. If it's successful then more established dealers start putting their promotional power behind it, and you've got more legitimate businesses to protect.

 

[ThomasOrion]

Every brand had their ups and downs. I like trilogy stuff, but the DD mids...are just too thin and therefore don't have the control I want from a mid. For my power the Verdict was too HS understable and not sure if itll fade hard or hold an anny. Its a decent disc, but the mids are just TOO THIN for my taste. Some of their drivers flight #'s are way off Ahem ahem WESTSIDE. plastics are great in a lot of them, but you cannot deny 400G as being one of the best. and 750 is sweeeeet. I like all companies tho, look at my sig. Best plastics? all good really, Fuzion is nice, Moonshine is a nice champion like glow plastic, Star (old innova star) 400/400G 750 350 300 all great plastics. VIP is ok, TP is decent, Pinnacle is slick, etc...they are all good. But I think its just preference. Anybody can be a great player with any company....but...i want to mix bag it

 

[Disc Golf Chuck]

I'm curious as to where you were told this. I was told something very similar here in the Atlanta area, though not specific to Prodigy discs. A retailer told me that companies were setting up vendors as MLMs, who were then selling discs out of their cars at prices below what he (the retailer) had to buy them for. This definitely could be an issue...

I was told this in the Phoenix metro area by a part owner of the establishment.

While the disc brands pulled out of the water may corrolate with the larger study of disc popularity, it may be useful to note that being in the water means that it is a sampling of unsuccessful throws. Pool occupancy and brands analysis can lead to some perverse conclusions: The best brand is that which swims least. I like sales records and distribution models for this.

The data stands on its own as far as what brands were "swimming". It is a fair assumption to say that those least found in the water aren't there because they are the best brand, but because they are thrown less to a large degree.

Historically, in order to buy at dealer prices, the only manufacturer that required you to have a physical store was Innova. I was told by my local retailer that Trilogy has begun requiring this as well.
Any of us can call Most companies and start our own shop out of our trunk. This is nothing new, it's been going on since the 90s. People have been ordering boxes of big releases at $8 a disc while others pay scalper prices for them two weeks later on FB.

Idk about selling them below the cost the store was able to get them at. That was probably an exaggeration. Although, I have sold discs for $5 before.

The individuals weren't selling the Prodigy discs below the cost the store was able to get them at (wholesale), but they were selling them for less than the store's retail price. The retail store has to account for sales tax and overhead that the individuals selling discs out of their trunk don't have to account for to the same extent that a retail store does.

The wholesale prices are out there for the public to see. I found one from Trilogy that gave the price for many kinds of discs with the minimum acceptable price to be sold to the public with other rules, requirements, and restrictions to be enforced at their discretion.

The bottom line, in my opinion, is that retailers buy from wholesalers what the end users buys. In the beginning, many disc golfers, including myself, were attracted to Prodigy by the many pros they endorsed as well as the plastic that felt great in the hand. However, over time...most people refused to part with their hard-earned money to buy a disc that was so inconsistent in its flight pattern for the same mold. I know that inconsistency is part of every disc golf disc manufacturer, but the range of inconsistency is much smaller in most of the other brands from my own experience and the experience of my many fellow disc golfers. If you can't go to the store and pick out a D3 to replace the one you lost and know that it will be similar to that one you lost, then why bother? And maybe Prodigy has fixed some of those issues and their consistency is now closer to the other disc golf manufacturers, but many people have the initial experience seared into their mind and won't return...ever.

 

[FredV]

A manufacturer that sells product to a brick and mortar retailer then goes about making it possible for others to compete directly with that retailer is betraying a basic trust that underlies a fundamental business principle. It promises a succession of failed small businesses, while the maker roles along

 

[mcrow24]

I'm no expert on the industry as a whole but IME, seeing what people play and talking to some local shops seems like Innova is still the big dog and it's not close.

That said, the fight over the #2 spot is getting interesting, DC still has an edge but DD is right there with them. Trilogy together seems to move more discs than DC right now. Prodigy doesn't seem to be that big from what I see yet but certainly Prodigy and MVP are gaining market share.

Seems to me that Millennium and Gateway took it on the chin over the last 5-8 years. Seemed to be a lot more talk and players throwing Gateway and Millennium than there are now.