how many people is too many?

[LukeButch]

When it comes to tournaments, how do you feel about a player cap? are 5 -somes ok? how about 5-somes plus ghost holes to accommodate all the players? for c and b tiers should everyone be allowed to play that wants to, or should there be a strict cap at 4 players per hole?


asking to gauge general opinion, as recently had a friend complain to me about a TD making a strict player cap at a tournament that filled up very very fast, while seeing another friend not fully enjoy another tournament due to no player cap and 5+ hour rounds. as a TD in the past I worked to try and allow as many players as would possibly fit, but now think that having a stricter player cap is better- basically trying to offer the best possible experience to the players vs a lesser experience for more players.

 

[Moose33]

You generally want a cap around 40 for maximum ease and enjoyment. 30 is ideal IMO.

 

[scarpfish]

Depends on the course. For long and difficult courses, I would advise against fivesomes if you want to get everyone home by dinner hour. On shorter layouts, you can get away with fivesomes and probably have time to spare. Of course even then, that's another 18 scorecards you have to check and calculate.

Same thing goes with extra temp holes and ghost cards. If you're doing your standard, one day-two round event, even under the rosiest of circumstances, no more than 21 holes a round, and no more than one ghost card per course.

 

[jchoate7]

I've played one tourny with 5 somes. Too many people if you ask me. 4 per hole works out I think the best. Any more and it just turns into a cluster ____.

 

[3j0hn]

A very well organized tourney with 100 players playing an 18 hole SSA 60ish course can feel pretty smooth. A poorly organized tourney with 50 players can be much worse.

 

[5QU166Y]

You generally want a cap around 40 for maximum ease and enjoyment. 30 is ideal IMO.

30? That seems very small to me. I enjoy playing tournaments with no more than 4 players on a card. Provided the players don't lose their discs or struggle with a particular hole, I don't notice too much of a wait between collecting scores and teeing off. I prefer tournaments with between 40 and 60 players.

 

[LukeButch]

A very well organized tourney with 100 players playing an 18 hole SSA 60ish course can feel pretty smooth. A poorly organized tourney with 50 players can be much worse.

I tend to agree with this(and I've ran a fairly smooth 105 player tournament on that type of course). however those seem susceptible to one small thing can add on an hour to some players rounds. lets say there is a 4 some of intermediate women shooting 90+...that takes a while. Or just 1 card of open with 3 of the slowest players, who on top of being slow are playing bad and losing discs. then you get the situation where 3/4ths of the field takes 3.5 hours for the round, and the rest take 4+

 

[filobedo]

I would like to see more one day tournaments in SC with Open and Adanced Sat and Rec and Intermediate Sunday or cap the popular one course tournaments at 72 players and all
Players must be current PDGA members. One of my biggest pet peaves is "local dg guy" who only plays his local sold out tournament each year but only plays Sat and does not show Sun. Essentially taking a spot from a committed tournament player. I also wish more tournaments played 2 courses over the weekend but this is difficult in many places due to the 90/10 rule and the lack of volunteers at most events.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Slow holes on the course where groups stack up after the round gets underway are really key to whether you can comfortably handle even foursomes, and fivesomes can become unbearable. It's not necessarily a long round, say over 4 hours, that bothers players as much as constantly waiting 5-10 minutes extra at several tees during the round for a group or more to play. The problem is many times the slow holes are some of the signature holes players want to play such as 4 at BRP and 5 at Kaposia. TDs also want to showcase these holes so they don't modify them to play faster. This happens less often on courses with several legit par 4s and even 5s that can handle more than 18 groups comfortably as they space out during the round. As mentioned earlier, a full group of 4-5 women tend to play slower, but other than the first round, you can't spread them into separate groups.

 

[AndyJB]

Caps on Divisions would make more sense, depending on the course. A typical park course, which would be short for most pros, really evens the times. A longer course tends to have the Pros flying through it just because of their greater distances on drives and more controlled upshots. A shorter course is the exact opposite...Open players (in my experience) tend to take longer because they are shooting for those really low scores and really taking a long time to set up their shots. Without a ton of officials around it gets pretty difficult to control the pace of play.

Bottom line: no tournament is perfect. Some of my favorites have had huge fields (200 plus) on one long course, and other favorites have been with less than fifty. Tournaments are tricky to run (trust me) and it is just impossible to take all factors in to account.

 

[Moose33]

30? That seems very small to me. I enjoy playing tournaments with no more than 4 players on a card. Provided the players don't lose their discs or struggle with a particular hole, I don't notice too much of a wait between collecting scores and teeing off. I prefer tournaments with between 40 and 60 players.

I play at a very quick pace, helps me get in a rhythm. With only 30 to a tourney you can do 2 some and have 2 hour rounds easily.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Twosomes are not really recommended unless there are only 2 players in the division or perhaps it's the last round of an event and two players at the bottom of a bigger division are out of contention. Even then, better to have at least three in a group so you have the minimum number needed to make rules calls.

 

[brutalbrutus]

New years day in Cincinnati we had 117 show up for a tourney on a pitch and putt course. Most groups had 6 players I think there was one or two 7somes and a ghost group. The vast majority of players had a great time, though this may have been due to new years day "activities". lol

 

[chris deitzel]

What's wrong with 126 players on 24 holes?? We'll we played from 8:00am til 8:00pm. Ate dinner, fell asleep and did it again.

All at a course where everyone camps or stays in cabins at the course.

Not my idea of fun. I came to hang out and see friends. Not play golf for 11 hours.

 

[optidiscic]

this begs this riddle/conundrum

Whats best?
76 players but add 1 hole
76 players have 4 5somes
76 players but have a ghost card

Ive often struggled with how to best set up a tourney keeping in mind players hate waiting snd manh despise temporary holes but even worse they hate being told the tourney is full go home or then 3 guys dont show and u get 3somes lol
Ive always felt the real problem is typically one or 2 brutally slow players that can actually disrupt an entire field of players

 

[brutalbrutus]

Maybe round times just don't bother me. I play with the slowest group of humans to ever grace a disc course. Yesterday it took 6 people 530 hrs to play 24 shorts at Idlewild, on a day where the course was less than half full. Tourney rounds seem tame by comparison.

 

[BradC]

I've never been a fan of fivesomes. I understand it from the TD angle, but as a player it sucks.

Aside from long waits, on some holes you feel cramped on the pad/waiting to tee, especially if 10 people are there at once.

 

[chris deitzel]

It's always better to say "Sorry, the event is full" instead of punishing everyone else that signed up in time.

 

[JC17393]

In a shotgun start type of tournament, I want no temp holes, no ghost cards, no 5-somes. Foursomes or less. If people are upset about not getting to play, tell them to sign up earlier (whether that's pre-regging or getting to the course earlier in the morning).

I will specifically avoid registering for tournaments that have 90 player caps (or worse, no cap) unless I have a firm belief that the event isn't going to fill anyway. I've withdrawn from tournaments (pre-reg withdrawal, not show up and leave withdrawal) that filled to 72 and decided to add on 18 more spots to accommodate waitlisters.

IMO, flow should be paramount in a tournament. Flow is not necessarily speed, though. Flow means you play a hole at a normal, even leisurely pace then arrive at the next tee and find it is clear and ready to be played more often than not. And every group's experience is like that, not just the group out in front of the three group back-up following them.

Flow is also having all groups finishing their round within 20-25 minutes of one another, allowing them to promptly turn their cards in and the TD/staff to promptly turn them around. A tournament with good flow does not have 2-2.5+ hour lunch breaks. If all that good flow all can happen with 5-somes, so be it. But I can't say I've seen that happen all that often.

 

[chris deitzel]

It would be really nice if the PDGA would actually make 4-somes the maximum number of players for an event. Though it would cost them thousands of dollars to do so.

It really is the way a Professional event should be handled. I'm so sick of playing in 5-somes at B-tiers where I paid $90 to play. Half the time someone is talking or moving or in someones way. People walk off the tee after only 4 have teed. Etc. It's never good.