How to Confront a Pay to Play Abuser?

[mmueller]

Sound advice and least likely to escalate out of control

I'm disappointed by the handful of replies criticizing a clearly reasonable and rational course owner for asking for help. Busch league.

I wouldn't go a passive-aggressive route. I know for me personally it feels like disrespect when someone is passive-aggressive with me, rather than just talking about an issue straight up and solving it. Now, I get that this other guy is more disrespectful, but like momma always says, "Two wrongs don't make a right."

My advice: don't sink to his level, speak to him directly, speak in facts and limit any assumptions (i.e. if you say he plays 5x a week, don't go after him saying "you NEVER pay" - go to him and say "I've noticed that you play quite often, and I'm happy to see you out here enjoying it, but the amount of money I count on days that you play oftentimes doesn't add up"). This gives him an opportunity to explain himself. If he straight up lies, ask him to leave and not return. If he admits it, explain why you charge, etc. and ask him to comply.

Do everything you can to limit the "he said, he said" nature of the discussion (i.e. count the till before and after he arrives, I'm sure there's a discernible pattern to it), and then speak directly.

Best of luck, I have a dream one day to own land with a course (or complex of courses) on it...so I'm feeling the pain with you of people who take advantage.

This is essentially the method I used, it is the right choice. Some time back when I was trying to get him to sign a waiver (it finally worked to leave one on his windshield with a note) I sent him a message on FB and he finally responded yesterday. I thanked him for signing the waiver and explained why it was important. Then I discussed how much effort had been and continued to be put into the course by myself and it's one regular volunteer, and we are always excited to see people enjoying the work that we've done. Finally I said that we had seen him at the course fairly regularly and it appeared he wasn't respecting the course's pay to play policy and, as much as I regret confronting him, it was my only option with regards to sustaining the course and respecting those who do honor the rules.

He immediately apologized and said he was short on work (which is not surprising because it is mud season and many of the services business are closed). He said he planned to buy a pass in the summer when he has work again and he would wait until then to play Redtail. I offered to let him continue to play as long as he committed to purchasing a pass when he had the funds.

I am a firm believer in setting boundaries with people and often find that the more clear and unwavering they are, the better that people respond to them. When mud season begins, I can bring up the subject again with this person and ask him how he plans to follow up on his commitment.

I do allow people to work of season passes - 8 reliable hours on the course but I am sorry to say it just does not work except in extremely rare circumstances. I think it also is the leading cause to the local's abuse of the P2P rule as many people don't pay the fee and assure themselves that it is totally fine because they will put some time in on the course later in the season, which never happens.

 

[davetherocketguy]

This is one of those things where their truly are a number of right answers and it's just a matter of finding which one best suits the objectives. Personally, if it were my property I may not have been as nice and would have been far more willing and likely to call the cops. But that's just me...I'm kind of an a-hole lol. And don't get me wrong, I'm certainly NOT saying it was handled incorrectly.

 

[mmueller]

Glad to hear that you were able to resolve the issue in a manner that makes you happy. Good luck in the future getting the growth you're looking for. Thank you for posting an update. I wasn't sure if you'd return or not. Hopefully this can help the next private course owner looking for similar help.

I've learned a great deal in 4 years as a private course owner. I'm always glad to help others out and have seen quite a bit. That being said, one thing I still struggle with a great deal is getting people to review the course, much less updating out of date reviews. Sadly the traffic on the course depends greatly on the reviews on an infinitesimally small percentage of people who have played the course and we've done more improvements (some with attention to those reviews) in the last year than any time before. I am working on a campaign to encourage people that love the course to share their thoughts with others in hopes to help that.

 

[mmueller]

Good to hear you printed up envelopes, but I actually thought you were already doing that (based upon the donation pole you had). This is exactly the way parks do it and it seems to work pretty well for disc golf and other pay-for-use activities (cross country skiing, etc.).

Nope, new people typically folded the fee up in their signed waiver or dropped it in alone. I had assumed people coming back would drop a fiver in and go tee off. Once these envelopes are gone I'll probably get ones with a tear off stub or something that people can take with them.

 

[DiscFifty]

"Pay to play is on the honor system." You should experiment one weekend and have a paid gate keeper collect fees or they can't tee off and see how much revenue you make compared to the honor system.

 

[mmueller]

"Pay to play is on the honor system." You should experiment one weekend and have a paid gate keeper collect fees or they can't tee off and see how much revenue you make compared to the honor system.

The grass and brush is growing like mad now - if we don't have all hands on deck running mowers and brush cutters (which amounts to 2 pairs spread very thin) the course will get ripped by people that are frustrated because discs are too hard to find. We have to be careful to choose our battles wisely.

That being said, when players see the owner out working on the course, they are more likely to observe the honor system, especially if I walk up and say hi.

 

[Shamis]

Just shame people publicly. that's the cheapest and most effective way to deal with this.

 

[JTacoma03]

This is essentially the method I used, it is the right choice. Some time back when I was trying to get him to sign a waiver (it finally worked to leave one on his windshield with a note) I sent him a message on FB and he finally responded yesterday. I thanked him for signing the waiver and explained why it was important. Then I discussed how much effort had been and continued to be put into the course by myself and it's one regular volunteer, and we are always excited to see people enjoying the work that we've done. Finally I said that we had seen him at the course fairly regularly and it appeared he wasn't respecting the course's pay to play policy and, as much as I regret confronting him, it was my only option with regards to sustaining the course and respecting those who do honor the rules.

He immediately apologized and said he was short on work (which is not surprising because it is mud season and many of the services business are closed). He said he planned to buy a pass in the summer when he has work again and he would wait until then to play Redtail. I offered to let him continue to play as long as he committed to purchasing a pass when he had the funds.

I am a firm believer in setting boundaries with people and often find that the more clear and unwavering they are, the better that people respond to them. When mud season begins, I can bring up the subject again with this person and ask him how he plans to follow up on his commitment.

I do allow people to work of season passes - 8 reliable hours on the course but I am sorry to say it just does not work except in extremely rare circumstances. I think it also is the leading cause to the local's abuse of the P2P rule as many people don't pay the fee and assure themselves that it is totally fine because they will put some time in on the course later in the season, which never happens.

Legitimately smiling on this end of the interwebz to read the updates to the story, thanks for sharing. Send me a PM with paypal info. I'd like to buy that man's season pass for him. Your actions in this situation are the epitome of handling a potentially volatile situation with class. Keep doing what you're doing.

 

[Matt B.]

"Majority of people playing dont pay the fee. But this one guy IS THE WORST!! HELP ME BRAINSTORM WAYS TO CALL HIM OUT!"

Good Lord some people are just miserable. Imagine choosing this as a place to make a stand.

 

[CabMakio]

With the honor system comes abusers because some people have no honor

If you want everyone to pay, then make it a pay to play course and save yourself the stress

If you want to keep the honor system, you have to accept that some people are going to abuse it, and some percentage of those abusers are NEVER going to pay, but stop letting them ruin your day