I Need a Little More Distance

[lowesengineer]

I have been playing for one year and my max distance tops out on my best throws at 320' measured on a football field. Typical distance for me on holes at the course are in the 270' range. I need to be able to throw 320' to be able to compete with the people I play with. I normally throw a Valkrie from the tee. I throw from a standstill because adding in an X-Step only seems to complicate things and throws off what little timing I have at this point. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

https://youtu.be/Ua1yrS7Giqs

 

[lucasgg]

1: Your brace looks pretty good for starters.
2: You should not throw with your feet pointing away from each other. Keep them parallel.
3: You are over reaching/reaching on your reach-back. Your upper mass goes past your rear leg and foot. Keep your weight inside/between both feet.

You probably have made most progress for a "newbie" to the forum. We'll whip your drive into good shape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5xfv9jPqZs

 

[DiscFifty]

Throwing near 300ft from a stand still is a great tool to have and is actually really good regardless of skill level. I'm sure that really helps your approach game. But if you want more distance from the tee I think you should leave your stand still where it's at (always work on form though) and concentrate on the x-step. It does take time, but if you work in it everyday it's going to start clicking. Make sure to slow wayyyy down while working on your form. Don't worry about accuracy at first, just concentrate on form. You'll probably start seeing your throws go to the right, this is typical due to increased power and your brain not compensating. But keep at it, you should ultimately see gains anywhere from 20-50ft once the x-step is working.

 

[esc1]

Welcome to the forum. Good call to stick with the one step at first. You have a lot of off axis torque (OAT) that makes the disc wobble. OAT is going to rob you of some distance and clean lines. You should examine your grip more closely. Take a look here.

 

[lowesengineer]

Thanks So Far

Thanks for the tips and links! I was really worried someone would suggest I try something different like knitting or basket weaving so we are off to a great start. I will definitely work on the feet and get them parallel as I move into the throw as well as keeping my weight inside of my feet. I really have no understanding of OAT so I will be looking for some threads on that as well as experimenting with my grip.

I do field work very often so I hope I can fix some of these pretty quickly. I know I am well into my fifties but I don't think 320 is unreasonable and it would do wonders for my score as long as it is accurate. I like my birdie chances on a 350' hole much better from 30' instead of the 80' I am faced with now.

Thanks again for the help and as I post more video please continue to provide advice as I am very thick skinned.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, you are leaning and drifting backward in the backswing. Rear knee and hip must not move away from the target in backswing, they should move forward while you are turning backward. Rear foot spins out instead of making a forward "move". You also hold the disc off plane alignment to your arm and shoulders and swoop down the disc and release at your hip height instead of nip height. Need to get your elbow up and out away from your chest.

 

[DiscFifty]

...and release at your hip height instead of nip height.

I was just told I do this and when corrected, instant gain.

 

[lowesengineer]

So I Understand

I get that I am moving away from the target in my backswing and that my left hip should instead turn and get closer to the target and I think that will be pretty easy to change. I also forget often to bend my wrist down slightly to match the same plane as my forearm so that should be easy to fix as well.

Now to the parts I have questions about. Are you saying that getting my elbow up and out from my body will keep me from dropping to my hip to throw? (Never knew I threw from there until the video.)

Final question is about the eversion. I find that concept difficult to replicate if I think about trying to do it, but it just seems to happen when I squeeze my knees together as I start the move toward the basket. (I know you have told others to do that.)

I will wait for a reply and then start working on those three things once I am sure of what you are saying. Those being:

Turn instead of leaning or moving backwards.
Wrist slightly bent with elbow up and away from my body.
Squeeze my knees together when I start forward.

More video to come. Thanks for the help. Those guys at the course are not going to know what happened.

 

[sidewinder22]

Elbow up and out should help get your arm/disc to be extending/releasing further away from your body toward the target. Like throwing a ball from a string, should be your arm/disc pulling away from your body. Your elbow should not move up/down during the swing relative to your shoulder. The elbow really doesn't even need to move much back or forth. The lower arm and disc can swing in and out with the elbow maintained forward and produce serious results. You should find you have to turn your hips/shoulders much further back with the elbow forward to get a "reachback". See Door Frame Drills.

The eversion is just an indicator your weight is moving the right direction and you have maintained leverage/torque.

 

[lowesengineer]

Well I got out to the field yesterday to work on three things as I am an engineer and breaking things down into small sections is really the only way I know to work through issues and especially those that are driven by muscle memory. I got some great feedback as well as some recommendations and as the reach back is the first move from a stand still, I decided that was the place to start.

The three things I decided to work to correct were:

1. I was leaning back well beyond my back knee in the reach back. Hmmm turns out the reach back is not a reach back at all. It is a turning of the body that keeps the weight between your knees rather than behind. So rear knee and left butt moves closer to the target during the turn back.

2. OAT caused by the disc being on a different plane than my arm and shoulders caused mostly by issue #3. Wow I thought it would be easy to remember to bend the wrist down to bring the disc in line with the forearm, but it turns out its the first thing I forget. Always.

3. Get my elbow up and away from my body. Another thing I thought would be simple. (Lift your elbow up right?) Turns out that it is much easier said than done.

I attacked the first issue via the Butt Wipe Drill or in layman's terms I practiced wiping my butt on the wall. (Sorry, I didn't name it. SW22 gets the credit for that, even though I'm not sure what else you might call it.)

If anyone has the time to check out the new video, I would be interested to find out if I accomplished any one of the three elements of the throw that I chose to correct.

https://youtu.be/QaulBjgHJo4

I measured 24 throws at the end of the session all done with the Classic Judge which averaged 211' calculated by measuring to the disc and then subtracting the distance from which I missed the line.

Thanks in advance for anyone that can lend additional help.

 

[mrosjnur]

Noticed a few things. First of all, drop those discs in you left hand when you throw, even though you are focusing on one or two things at the time, bring a collapsable chair or something to put them on if picking them up one at the time bothers you.

Looks like your rear leg is spinning out and dragging through the ground instead of doing "the move" as Sidewinder pointed out. The weigh should come from behind and your back leg should counter by going up and behind you, not spinning out (I'm working on this as well).

Your discs are released with nose up, it might be a grip/alignment issue, or plane/airbounce issue, not sure though.

You are starting the forward swing at the same time as your hips. The disc should lag behind a bit to get a more whipping effect. Mabye try to get your arm to work more as a pendulum in the backswing aka Sidewinders reciprocating dingle arm video.

 

[esc1]

Reach back, pull, and throw are all on different planes. Your reachback is high, pullthrough is low, and throw is high. This is causing nose up. I would recommend looking at your grip again. It looks like you are using a one finger pinch grip. Look at the power grip in the link I posted earlier.

Reciprocating dingle arm video is a good tip. Will help you be more fluid and less robotic.

 

[lowesengineer]

I get what you are saying esc1. I was really trying to concentrate on getting my butt wiped against the wall and trying to get that feeling incorporated into my turn back. I did remember what you said about the grip after I finished the video and experimented with those before I left the field. I appreciate your suggestions and forgive me if I seem that I am not paying attention but I really wanted to get that turn back down yesterday and it cost me in several ways. I hope it will be worth it in the end.

In terms of reaching back high, pulling through low, and then finishing high, I noticed that as well when I looked at the video. When I am throwing it feels like it is all at one level especially since I was trying to keep my elbow up more when I threw. Obviously I am not there yet. I'll be back in the field this afternoon for another try.

 

[esc1]

It's all good man.. experimenting is good. Enjoy

 

[lowesengineer]

Spent another hour in the field today and it was frustrating to say the least. I shot some video but it was just too embarrassing to share. I don't seem to be able to bring my arm through on a plane that is any higher up my torso than my belly button. So I still have the nose up and OAT issue. Start high move low and finish high, it's still there.

Well tomorrow is another day.

 

[lucasgg]

Nose over toes may help. Bending over helps to force the disc to occupy a certain line, and that is the belly button and up area.

 

[sidewinder22]

Try this:

 

[DiscFifty]

I know I am well into my fifties but I don't think 320 is unreasonable...

As a fellow 50's something player myself, all this small form tweaking may or may not get you any more distance if your arm speed is already maxed out in your stand still. The tweaks may help accuracy and endurance, but ultimately you may not get the extra distance you seek until you incorporate the xstep. I still think if you're already near 300ft from a stand still you should be fine with that and move on to the xstep. I play alot of PDGA tournaments and a stand still 300ft controlled drive/approach is a plus in the grandmaster division.

I think throwing 320+ will be easier to do from an xstep compared to doing it from a stand still. Don't get me wrong...if you really just HAVE to do it from a stand still then get a very light, understable disc and throw it up high to the left on a hyzer flip and let it flip over and ride the wind back to the right. You should be able to hit 320+ but it will take a lot of horizontal space to get there. But if you want that lower, straight, golf shot to go 320+ I still think it's time to move on to the xstep.

 

[slowplastic]

^ He's got some things to fix that will gain him more distance from standstill, that will only be complicated by adding an X-step already, IMO. Plus he likes breaking things down stepwise. So to me I wouldn't advise going there yet.

Other than swing plane, my concern is that there is no flow with the throw/transfer. It is a distinct motion to get into the reachback, then it's "throw time", then balanced after the throw. You have good balance/finished position, so that's a fantastic place to be for adding more into your throw. You'll know if you drift out of balance when making changes.

I would watch the Reciprocating Dingle Arm video, to try to get a flow/shift into the backswing (rear hip/instep) and then begin the forward motion from there. Also, you are throwing from your stationary reachback position with your upper body/hips all at the same time. When you get a shift from the ground to hips/upwards that will add some easy power that gets transferred to your shoulder.

 

[DiscFifty]

^ He's got some things to fix that will gain him more distance from standstill, that will only be complicated by adding an X-step already, IMO. Plus he likes breaking things down stepwise. So to me I wouldn't advise going there yet.

My only comment would be, his stand still distance is fine so if he's going to put in the time on anything at this point, I would recommend it be the x-step where he will find the most gain for the time put in imho.