Inconsistencies field work vs rounds

[jon.w]

Hi fellow strugglers, me again... haven't posted in 2 years but I still can't find a way to improve... this time I'm curious about your mindset/technique when doing field work and then go for the occasional round: do you try and think "mechanically" about your form when you go for the round? Or do you "just throw", although your new form hasn't established?
Also a bit curious if anyone's been in my situation where literally nothing seems to help improve consistency year after year, and you find yourself in the awkward position of being so erratic that it's almost unimaginable going for a "serious round" but you still enjoy coming out to casually throw and enjoy the outside etc?

 

[lee76007]

What works for me is a long range and a short-range training plan, and it's all about building blocks. December 2020 after a little more than my first year playing decided it was time to ditch the sloppy 4-step and return to it with a correct 4-step (long range) however long it takes. Short range started with a standstill on the practice field with putters only and taking them to the course only. Then a second short range goal of standstill mid's until eventually reaching my drivers. February 2021, I started the same process with short range goals the 1-step with putters bringing them to the course until reaching drivers about April 2021. Decided to course bag the rest of the year only using the practice field to improve on the 1-step. This past December started on the practice field 2-step putter as a new short-range goal, picked up omicron in January didn't touch a disc for 3 weeks, went back to the 1-step on the practice field to regain form and stamina until April. Since April have worked on the 2-step back to putter, now on my low-speed fairways and used those speeds for the first time on the course today. Had good results, this upcoming week moving on to my two 8-speed discs on the practice field and a new short-range goal possible to be using them on the course by the end of the week?

Instructional videos I've seen dozens here on the site from several contributors, but mostly from member Sidewinder. I'm looking for proper techniques and what's realistic for my age of 58. I also watch MP/A 40 and 50 plus tournaments to see also what type of game is possible at my age. I'm a lefty so I'm always hoping to see video of Nathan Queen, Zach Melton, and Heather Young to get a perspective what I should look like on the same side of the tee or fairway and disc flight.

Disc's in my bag has been primarily Innova but can be a struggle sometimes. So, I started experimenting other brands about a year ago. If it's not working, I exchange it at Play it Again Sports for another Disc. A few months ago, I bought my first MVP an 11 speed and loved it. Since then, I now have more MVP's in my bag than any other brand. There consistent with control, from speed to speed for the most part they feel the same on the grip. For the first time I can throw a 13 and 14 speed disc on a 1-step, cant wait until I reach them on a 2-step along with the 11 speeds, and the two 6-speeds have been awesome. Maybe something different for you?

The practice field. I've found I practice much better in the evening than morning. But the majority of my course time is in the morning, so I keep the majority of my fieldwork in the morning. I use a football field that has concrete and grass to work with.

I expect to start the 3-step by Sept 1st, and finish up by the end of the year. Then start the 4-step by April, should finish up before the end of summer after taking about 2 3/4 years when I first started the standstill.

My focus on the course is "Crush the Can" before moving my arm forward. When I'm doing it the rest works out including follow thru without thinking about it.

In December 2020 my original goal at 4-step was 200 feet with the putter which I'm hitting with a 2-step, and 300 feet with the driver, on a 1-step now occasionally I'm already hitting it, should see 300 more often when I reach the 2-step. Now I'm wondering how much more can I get?

It takes a lot of patience and work! But I'm seeing the benefits now with more control, gaining distance, and game improvement. I also work on putting. I hope this helps.

 

[smoothplayer]

Hi fellow strugglers, me again... haven't posted in 2 years but I still can't find a way to improve... this time I'm curious about your mindset/technique when doing field work and then go for the occasional round: do you try and think "mechanically" about your form when you go for the round? Or do you "just throw", although your new form hasn't established?
Also a bit curious if anyone's been in my situation where literally nothing seems to help improve consistency year after year, and you find yourself in the awkward position of being so erratic that it's almost unimaginable going for a "serious round" but you still enjoy coming out to casually throw and enjoy the outside etc?

You might have to think about a technical detail on the course but limit it to one at a time until you ingrain that new motion. It may take months to learn a new technique which is why it's so difficult but of course depends on how often you are practicing/playing. I've read it can take 3000 correct movements to allow the brain to develop the new motion so you no longer have to think about it anymore.

What I do and what I think the best thing to do is to take practice swings doing the technique you are trying to ingrain before every shot. So you get the feeling and then simply repeat that when you actually throw.

Of course video as much as you can as well, just to make sure you are actually doing the technically correct thing. Feel versus real is often different.

 

[Crooow]

Depends

It also depends on what you mean by "improving your game". Distance on drives? Accuracy on drives and field throws? Overall score? What I found helped me the most was improving my putting. Everybody is automatic from 5 feet. It doesn't take much practice to be automatic from 10 and then 15. You really should work it so that you are automatic for up to 30 feet. This propagates through the rest of your game (not that you don't need to work on those specific skills) but when I found that I was confident from 30 feet in, then it reduced the pressure on approach shots (don't need to park every one). This in turn reduced the pressure on having to make every drive maximum distance (so as to make the approach always parkable). Thus I could then concentrate on just driving to a good spot knowing that I could then get an approach shot within good putting distance.

If it is aim issues then I suggest trying different grips in the field. Also, of course, work on a forehand so you have that option in your bag. Concentrate on getting your basics right instead of trying to learn how to throw every conceivable throw (tomahawks, spike hyzers, etc.) You can add those later after you are more comfortable.

 

[Skervoy]

For me fieldwork has two levels

1 General form changes I just throw in an open field and only focus on drilling in a certain movement. Mostly disregarding outcome of flight.

2 practice multiple shots down a hole or other spot that has actual hinders in the way. From the first shot I am mindful to overcorrect back and forth to really force myself to learn what I am doing and what impact it has on the flight.


Also when I feel that results are lacking then I start to slow everything down and just focus on finding a good feel again.


Sometimes it can also be realöy nice to just throw some discs and try to do funky shapes with them and funky things in your form...can really stubbe into some good things while you also realise why some things really dont work

 

[Brychanus]

You might have to think about a technical detail on the course but limit it to one at a time until you ingrain that new motion. It may take months to learn a new technique which is why it's so difficult but of course depends on how often you are practicing/playing. I've read it can take 3000 correct movements to allow the brain to develop the new motion so you no longer have to think about it anymore.

What I do and what I think the best thing to do is to take practice swings doing the technique you are trying to ingrain before every shot. So you get the feeling and then simply repeat that when you actually throw.

Of course video as much as you can as well, just to make sure you are actually doing the technically correct thing. Feel versus real is often different.

This is good advice and is consistent with findings in the deliberate practice and motor learning literatures.

Over time, I'm finding that "max one swing thought" on the tee, setting the shot with a couple practice swings consistent with the Finish and Address Position thread advice, and fieldwork that addresses "stock" and "problem" shots has been shaving strokes and improving consistency. The range of distances and shot shapes at which I don't have to think at all before throwing also increases over time.

When applicable, I make sure that the only swing thought I have is the one that I'm also working on in fieldwork and drills at the time. Otherwise I just trust the rest of my current form. Make sure you limber up, stretch, and do any practice motions the same way before fieldwork and rounds.

Before I applied the above very consistently, I felt more like I was playing whack-a-mole than golf. Since my scores are continuing to improve, to me it just basically reinforces lessons that we know work for learning in the long run in pretty much every domain.

Also remember that it is important to take breaks sometimes both for your body and for learning. If you're really stagnating under the above advice, sometimes it's good to put one thing to the side completely for a bit and work on another. For example, I started working on my putt again and found that it also helps with my vexing plant leg mechanics since it's the same swing in a different posture, so sometimes you make gains from crossover effects.

 

[ray1970]

I've come to the realization that my game has pretty much peaked. Since I know my game and my limitations fieldwork these days is reserved for trying out new discs or just throwing a bit when I don't have time to play a round.

When I'm on the course I don't overthink anything as I am content with my form and I know the discs in my bag well so I just make my throws without getting in my head.

Obviously everyone is different.

 

[seedlings]

I play a new course blind and throw better than I ever do in the field OR my home course. If I could capture that 'excited to throw' then I'd be doing better. It's much different than the 'if I hit that stupid tree again…" mentality.

Hmm. It's a mental game.

 

[BillFleming]

Also a bit curious if anyone's been in my situation where literally nothing seems to help improve consistency year after year, and you find yourself in the awkward position of being so erratic that it's almost unimaginable going for a "serious round" but you still enjoy coming out to casually throw and enjoy the outside etc?

That's me. After 3 years, I still suck....just not as bad. I play tournaments, but I know I'll be dead last. The things that have given me improvement:
1. Lessons. I now have a decent backhand where I am rarely a danger to people around me.
2. This site. So much helpful information here.
3. Practice. I don't get to do this enough.

Fieldwork vs course work. In the field, I set up cones to show distances and as an aiming point. My goal is to work on form consistency and accuracy. Course work is where I work on strategy.

Sometimes during Fieldwork, I will image a specific hole or shot and attempt to make that.

But, I'm still missing consistency and accuracy....but I'll get there.

 

[dmoore1998]

I'm going to ignore that most of my fieldwork is either trying a new disc, or working on a specific throw type/line...and less about making big changes to my form at this point. That means there's very little thought about form even doing fieldwork, other than some "swing thoughts" (like working on a big anyhyzer drive, I'm thinking about leaning back a bit, or about making sure to snap through on a forehand...but not about the step-by-step mechanics of throwing).

If/when i'm specifically working on my form, I'm generally working on 1-2 things at a time, and that's what I'm thinking about during fieldwork. If I'm working on getting my plant foot forward, I'm thinking about getting my plant foot forward and probably not much else. The hope is that my body learns where to put that plant foot and eventually I never have to think about it again. When I was overhauling my form, I thought about it all, but I thought about it mostly while doing it very slowly, or doing drills.

During a round (casual or otherwise), I'm never thinking about the mechanics. For me, it's totally disruptive to keeping a smooth, loose throw. For power drives, I'm thinking 3 things typically. 1: making sure I have a firm pinch between thumb and finger. That's pre-throw. 2: Stay on your toes, a reminder to myself pre-throw and as I do my run-up. 3: Full extension on my reachback. That's mid-throw. For touch shots, I'll have a single "swing thought"...usually don't short-arm an approach, or dont' let my left arm flail on a forehand, or a specific target whether I want to throw it high or low, etc.

If I ever get serious about throwing further again, at this point it's going to be 1-2 things at a time. I throw "far enough" for the most part, so I'll work on those things during fieldwork or a casual round, and then trust that whether I throw it 400 in a serious round or 450 because I did the thing I've been working on...it won't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things. I'm more likley to throw it 200 feet into a tree if I'm thinking about the mechanical act of throwing.

 

[Waddball]

In practice, I generally limit myself to a couple distinct changes, worked on separately, usually from a thread here or something I saw in a round of pro coverage. I usually exaggerate whatever it is I'm working on and try to feel the necessary body/mental shift to go from current form to the new.

In rounds, I generally work on one simple thing at most (for instance off-arm timing, or hand on outside longer, etc.). More than that and I won't play well or enjoy the round.

I'm no authority on any of this; I'm not even two years in. But if I had to do it all over again, I'd work on mastering the standstill, esp. the whole "shift from behind" idea. Then maybe (and seriously: maybe not) work in the x-step only to the extent that it always ends up in that same standstill. I've wasted a lot of practice time working on an x-step that was essentially a different throw. But the standstill is where I make notable, exact, necessary changes, because the timing and balance is so much simpler and more repeatable.

 

[gwsmallwood]

When I play a round, all I think about are release angles and keeping the swing nice and easy, no strongarming. I try to use the fieldwork to drill in everything else. It's too hard to work on form during a round. There's no time for evaluation and adjustment on the fly, and it's hard to focus on one thing when every single shot you're taking is different in some way.

 

[jon.w]

Thanks, seems like a very "methodical" approach, glad it works for you!

 

[jon.w]

I'll go ahead and try to incorporate practice swings, never really did that!

 

[jon.w]

This is good advice and is consistent with findings in the deliberate practice and motor learning literatures.

Over time, I'm finding that "max one swing thought" on the tee, setting the shot with a couple practice swings consistent with the Finish and Address Position thread advice, and fieldwork that addresses "stock" and "problem" shots has been shaving strokes and improving consistency. The range of distances and shot shapes at which I don't have to think at all before throwing also increases over time.

When applicable, I make sure that the only swing thought I have is the one that I'm also working on in fieldwork and drills at the time. Otherwise I just trust the rest of my current form. Make sure you limber up, stretch, and do any practice motions the same way before fieldwork and rounds.

Before I applied the above very consistently, I felt more like I was playing whack-a-mole than golf. Since my scores are continuing to improve, to me it just basically reinforces lessons that we know work for learning in the long run in pretty much every domain.

Also remember that it is important to take breaks sometimes both for your body and for learning. If you're really stagnating under the above advice, sometimes it's good to put one thing to the side completely for a bit and work on another. For example, I started working on my putt again and found that it also helps with my vexing plant leg mechanics since it's the same swing in a different posture, so sometimes you make gains from crossover effects.

Whack-a-mole, brilliant
Sometimes (too often) I shank a disc hard and low to the right, literally being a danger to the potential mole stickin up his head!
And I'm very interested in motor learning litterature- have you got some links or tips?

 

[jon.w]

It also depends on what you mean by "improving your game". Distance on drives? Accuracy on drives and field throws? Overall score? What I found helped me the most was improving my putting.

I mean, like somebody put it here, more or less not being a danger to my surroundings on the course ;D
I don't really care about score, I just want to be happy with the feeling in my shots, I almost never count them. But sure, it would feel good not having to struggle with par all the time. I throw short and very erratic.

 

[jon.w]

If it is aim issues then I suggest trying different grips in the field. Also, of course, work on a forehand so you have that option in your bag. Concentrate on getting your basics right instead of trying to learn how to throw every conceivable throw (tomahawks, spike hyzers, etc.) You can add those later after you are more comfortable.

That's interesting, can't recall that anybody ever suggested mixing up grips, I feel pretty good with mine (kind of a fan grip, if I try to power grip I always griplock). And I don't know, after 12-13 years I think I'm kind of behind the concept of basic throws

 

[jon.w]

I always thought so too, so many years since I used an x-step so I can't really do it currently... but it seems (as often) people look upon this very differently.

 

[Brychanus]

I'll go ahead and try to incorporate practice swings, never really did that!

If you hadn't, check out this thread for some nice examples:

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134167

At some point I'd like to collect more examples in a batch when I get around to it.

 

[Sheep]

Im going to jam in my big one right here.

And this is most peoples issues while playing and putting.

Practice like you play, play like you practice.

Period, done, stop.

Practice putting, people grab a stack of discs and just wing them at the basket and call it practice.
its not. stop.

reset after each putt. Move your feet, re-align with basket, do your routine 100% every time on and off the course.


Field work, People grab a stack of disc and mash on it and call it field work throwing as hard as they can cause max D yo!

Yeah, the wrong Max D, you max Ding yourself (insert butt joke here)


When you go to the field to practice, you must go through your pre-shot routine every time.
If you find your pre-shot routine a hassle, its because your pre-shot routine sucks. And everyone watching you play probably gets annoyed waiting on you for 25 seconds also.

Anyways, winging discs in the air is what 90% of people do for "field work." thats not field work, thats winging discs as hard as you can or sloppy, and expecting improvements.


With no goals, and no discipline, field work means nothing.
I don't actually do... what most would call field work.

I throw a few discs on each hole while playing. Thinking about my throw, living in the reality of the course and watching what the discs do.
When I go to a field, I have no drive to do any of that.
But when I practice on a course, I have a purpose, goal and something to work at. A shot shape, a tunnel, etc.
And I can keep playing that hole over and over again.


But the main point is.
You have to practice as you play.
And nobody does, they just wing discs in a basket or in a field, then wonder why they are not better on the course.

I'm not accusing anyone of that here in this thread, but this is my feelings on the topic as to why people dont improve.