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[Innova] Innova Stud: New PnA

:how's the DX plastic in the Stud?:

The ones I have are a soft DX plastic. It feels good but is fragile. I've cracked one on a close range tree hit.

I'm a fan of driving putters and find the DX Stud to be a solid contender. I'd like to see them made in hard DX like the Classic Rocs I have.
 
I read this thread twice because the Stud sounded like a good candidate for my slightly OS putter slot. So I finally got a couple of Studs. One 175g DX and 1 175g XT.
Here are my initial thoughts after a few throws in the field:

Plastic:
DX feels good, its a little soft without being too soft. The firmness is just about perfect IMO. I'm not a fan of really soft discs like Discraft's Soft putter plastic, Gateway's SS or floppier, or R-Pro putters. Those are all too soft for me. This DX is firmer but not rock hard. The flight plate has some give and the rim will flex and absorb some impact. This is all I need.

The XT is GREAT. This is my first XT. I like the idea of it and the descriptions of it so I thought I'd give it a go. Definitely not disappointed in the feel. It feels like Gateway SS grip but stiffer. The center of the flight plate is smooth but the amount of texture increases as you get closer to the rim. By the time you get to the wing it feels like Gateway SSS texture. This really is a fantastic balance of grippiness and stiffness. LOVE IT.

The two different plastics' geometries look identical with the exception of the dome. The dome is very slightly higher on the XT bu tonly by a millimeter or less; barely perceptible. Neither of these discs are domey but they aren't flat either. However, any less dome and they would start tickling the "flat" category.

In the hand:
It is a low profile putter beaded putter. Some people like low profile, some like beaded, some like both and some like neither. I like the low profile and the bead doesn't annoy me. I jump back and forth between the Aviar P&A and the Rhyno so I'm used to both beaded and beadless. The Stud's bead is there but it doesn't hinder throwing with my modified fan grip and it definitely doesn't annoy me.

The rim depth is measured at 1.3cm which is the same as my Rhyno but the stud feels thinner to me. I'm blaming the Thumtrac.

The rim is 1.1cm thick and fills out my hand less than Rhynos and Aviars but it isn't uncomfortably small. It's noticeable but I don't think it affects anything.

There is a decent radius where the inside of the rim meets the bottom of the flight plate. Even though the radius is average/slightly larger than average I still wish it were just a little bigger. I like a big radius for my forehand grip.

Some discs feel heavier than others. For instance, the Warlock feels heavier than the Aviar even though they are essentially the same disc. I think this is because of the weight distribution; the Warlock has more weight in the rim and less in the flight plate so when I am gripping the disc with my putt grip it feels heavier than an Aviar. These Studs feel light for being 175g. I think the flight plates are on the thick side.

Stamps:
XT? Blech. No thanks. I'm pretty sure the XT material will hold Sharpie better than any DX soooooo... I'm already daydreaming tattoos for her ;)

DX: I know alot of people don't like the little pony. I think it's a good start but they could have made it a lot cooler. Personal pref.

Throwing:
It was cold, wet, snowy and starting to get dark outside so I didn't get to throw as much or as hard as I wanted. But I had enough flight-time to notice a few things of interest to me.

The XT felt better in the cold, wet snow. Big surprise. Neither felt bad, its just that the XT felt noticeably better.

The studs have a tendency to release low just like my Rhynos. That's fine because they are candidates for replacing the Rhynos and I'm already used to compensating on those types of throws. No biggie.

The stability seemed pretty good to me. The HSS was usually 0 but on some of the harder throws I think I started to notice the faintest bit of turn… like -0.25 or less. Is anyone else seeing this? There was a gusty 5-10 mph wind and of course I was seeing the turn when I was throwing into a headwind. The Rhynos wouldn't have flinched in these winds. The studs handled the crosswinds and tailwinds just fine, no concerns there. I don't have the best wind game and even I was able to hit my targets. But then again 5-10 mph shouldn't interfere too much anyway.

The fade was a nice surprise. If you have given your throw enough height then you'll see a gradual pull to the left (RHBH) as the disc fades forward. It doesn't do one of those hard flares, just a modestly strong but gradual pull to the left. It's very similar to a brand new Aviar P&A's gradual fade but with more kick to the left. If you don't have the height then the fade is barely noticeable. I regularly rely on my disc's fade to keep me away from trouble so it's nice to see that the Stud will be a reliable performer in this regard.

The Studs have some glide but less than I thought they would. More than the Rhyno but less than the Aviar. These seemed more ballistic than glidey. I was instantly comfortable with the glide and had no troubles hitting my landing zones with these, even when I was picking spots more than 200' away. Range control was not an issue for me today. I didn't notice any difference in the way the two different plastics skipped/didn't skip. Wet ground isn't the best time to test this.

Distance?
Well it was cold, wet, snowy and getting dark. I'm a wuss so my hands were hurting a little. I wasn't seeing my normal putter distances… but then again, I wasn't expecting to. I had no trouble getting over 200'. 250-260' was about average. I had a few that were at (or slightly over) 300' but it was hurting my fingers to throw that hard and the ground was all muddy so footing was less-than-ideal. My educated guess is that I will see an average of 300' in the summer. I think I will be able to push them out to 350' but that's not a shot that I would use at the course; if I'm counting strokes then that shot would get a midrange for 350' shots.

Both plastics flew identically as far as I could tell.

Putting:
For putts inside the circle, it's like putting with a Rhyno. You can't aim directly at the link you want to hit because of the fade. Aim slightly to the right and let the fade take it into the chains. The XT plastic grips the chains better than the DX. This seems like a big plus to me.

I haven't gotten to try any putts from outside the circle. More on that later.

Conclusion:
Overall I like the disc. A lot. But I need more time before I can say whether it will kick the Rhyno out of the bag. My two main concerns are:
1- If my observations today were correct then these Studs *might not* have the HSS I want. I need to test this more because I will be driving these 100% guaranteed. I like the HSS of the Rhynos... if these Studs are appreciably less HSS than the Rhynos then that will be the deal breaker for me.
2- These do not have the Thumtrac. I like the Thumtrac.
 
Conclusion:
Overall I like the disc. A lot. But I need more time before I can say whether it will kick the Rhyno out of the bag. My two main concerns are:
1- If my observations today were correct then these Studs *might not* have the HSS I want. I need to test this more because I will be driving these 100% guaranteed. I like the HSS of the Rhynos... if these Studs are appreciably less HSS than the Rhynos then that will be the deal breaker for me.
2- These do not have the Thumtrac. I like the Thumtrac.

I don't think they are going to have the HSS your after. Especially being a Rhyno thrower. I putt with Aviars but drive/approach with Rhynos. I like to have a premium plastic Aviar to use in situations the Rhyno doesn't cover. I'll use a Star Aviar or S-line P2 usually but I've been using the Stud in that slot lately and it's great. It holds lines very well from anny to hyzer. I enjoy throwing long smooth annys with it. I like the shallow smooth rim as well. It glides just the right amount. It can't be trusted in the wind like a Rhyno. The Studs awesome but it's no Rhyno.
 
The stability seemed pretty good to me. The HSS was usually 0 but on some of the harder throws I think I started to notice the faintest bit of turn… like -0.25 or less. Is anyone else seeing this? There was a gusty 5-10 mph wind and of course I was seeing the turn when I was throwing into a headwind. The Rhynos wouldn't have flinched in these winds. The studs handled the crosswinds and tailwinds just fine, no concerns there. I don't have the best wind game and even I was able to hit my targets. But then again 5-10 mph shouldn't interfere too much anyway.

...

The Studs have some glide but less than I thought they would. More than the Rhyno but less than the Aviar. These seemed more ballistic than glidey.

...

Overall I like the disc. A lot. But I need more time before I can say whether it will kick the Rhyno out of the bag. My two main concerns are:
1- If my observations today were correct then these Studs *might not* have the HSS I want. I need to test this more because I will be driving these 100% guaranteed. I like the HSS of the Rhynos... if these Studs are appreciably less HSS than the Rhynos then that will be the deal breaker for me.
2- These do not have the Thumtrac. I like the Thumtrac.

I have an S-Line P2, similar to the Aviar, I recently acquired a Champion Rhyno, and I bag the Star Stud (I also have a DX Stud, but have never tried an XT Stud).

Yes my Star Stud has just a wee bit of turn, especially as it has seasoned in over time, so your observation is correct there. Also, the V-technology keeps it stable in the neutral/straight sense, and I wasn't getting as much fade to the left (on RHBH throws) as I wanted. Once I adjusted to that, I was able to throw the Stud much more accurately.

I do prefer the P2 and Rhyno for upshots to the basket from (relatively) close range, and have relegated the Star Stud to longer approach shots (150 ft. to 200 ft. or so) than I am comfortable throwing the P2 or Rhyno for. As you were saying, the Stud not all that glidey, and cuts through the air rather fast, and I was overthrowing the basket with it on shorter throws.

As to putting, I rarely putt with the Stud but when I do I throw it like I throw my Warden, and the Stud does fine.
 
Since its such a gorgeous day (for the middle of January) I went to the local 9 holer at lunch and played with only my 2 Studs, XT and DX. They really are essentially the same in flight. The durability, grip preference or price will be the deciding factors for most.

Driving was fantastic. As I suspected, in warmer weather 300' is about the average for me. I parked a 320' hole (5 feet from the pin) and I was throwing about 85-90% power. I don't have much more than 320' on a low golf line. I would normally have thrown a Wasp/Roc/slightly OS mid for this shot but the Stud handled it marvelously. It turned *maybe* -0.5 for that shot and the fade was nonexistent. It ran out of height before it lost too much spin I guess. I like how the XT grabs the grass and doesn't let the disc slide around too much. We had gusts up to 15mph and I never felt like the discs got bullied. Also, I landed in a parking lot after overthrowing a 270' hole and there were only minimal scuffs on the XT plastic. I'm positive the DX would have had decent rash. Huge bonus points for durability.

Approaching really felt like a baby Rancho Roc. I liked it a lot for this role. Just like yesterday I had no problems hitting my landing zones. The XT hit and stuck better than the DX. I don't usually throw grippy discs but this was really nice feature and I might be a convert. The stability was healthy enough to pull out of a decent anny and land flat on a 60' approach. Everything worked well here.

Putting was better than I expected. I made all but one of my 20 footers and at least 2 that were around 30. That's good for me in the wind. I'm terrible in the wind. Its really about the same as the Rhyno for putting... except for the Thumtrac. I was instantly comfortable putting these.

Conclusion after one round is that I prefer the XT because of the plastic's grippiness and durability. I like the grip and how it affects the throw, the landing, the putting, and the durability. If these things aren't important to you then DX flies the same. I will say that I didn't think I'd like the XT *because of* the grippiness but it turns out that is exactly why I like it. YMMV.

I don't know why the Stud doesn't get more love. Great disc.

I'm also rocking a DX Colt to mimic a beat-in Stud. I like the Colt so I have high hopes for the Stud as it breaks in. Anyone here have a broken-in Stud? Is it like a Colt?

I don't think they are going to have the HSS your after... The Studs awesome but it's no Rhyno.
Agreed. I like her but she's not gonna kick out the Rhynos. I suppose there's room in between the Aviars and Rhynos... exactly the way you use them. It will probably come down to that.

...I wasn't getting as much fade to the left (on RHBH throws) as I wanted...
I do prefer the P2 and Rhyno for upshots to the basket from (relatively) close range, and have relegated the Star Stud to longer approach shots (150 ft. to 200 ft. or so)...
Yeah, I agree. Today is much warmer than yesterday and I had proper grip and feel when I was throwing. So the Studs weren't fading as much as yesterday. I still saw the gradual pull to the left instead of the hard flare but I was hoping for a little flare in there as well. Driving and approaching is where the Stud seems to shine IMO.
 
I don't know why the Stud doesn't get more love. Great disc.

I'm also rocking a DX Colt to mimic a beat-in Stud. I like the Colt so I have high hopes for the Stud as it breaks in. Anyone here have a broken-in Stud? Is it like a Colt?

Driving and approaching is where the Stud seems to shine IMO.

To make a short story long: I had a proto-DX Colt, and it was awesome. Basket-seeking missile, amazingly accurate. Then they came out with production DX Colts and Star Colts... domey, very understable, not like the protos at all. I (and others here) hoped that the Stud would be more like that proto-DX Colt.

To some degree, the Stud is like that proto-Colt when seasoned in. I bag the Star Stud, so the DX Stud hasn't gotten a lot of use, but over time the Star Stud has become an accurate disc, kind of like a fresh-out-of-the-box Mako3 that flies laser-straight (when thrown properly, of course). However, the Stud still is not nearly the accurate disc that proto-Colt was.

Why Innova changed such a great disc as that proto-Colt to be so lousy as a production disc, I'll never understand, but it is what it is. As to the Stud, I am surprised it does not get more love, either.

Meanwhile, I've been working with my Star Stud to see if it will be a good anny flex disc on certain tunnel shots I need on certain courses I play. It's done okay so far; my Lucid Judge does it better, though...
 
Still lovin' the Stud.
I lost a DX Stud in the pond yesterday (long story, my fault) so I just ordered some more DX and XT. The XT is definitely my preferred blend. My biggest beef is that the disc seems like it should be able to handle a headwind but it cannot. Apart from that the Stud seems to be good at pretty much anything else under 300' for me. You can get the Stud out longer than that but you get diminishing returns. Might as well disc up to a mid.

...but over time the Star Stud has become an accurate disc, kind of like a fresh-out-of-the-box Mako3 that flies laser-straight (when thrown properly, of course)...
I haven't tried the Star. Maybe soon. I'm going on a shopping spree in Florida soon. I will finally get to handle before I buy. If they feel good and are flatish then I will probably bite.

...Why Innova changed such a great disc as that proto-Colt to be so lousy as a production disc, I'll never understand, but it is what it is.
I haven't thrown a proto Colt but my production run DX is pretty good. We have a 310' hole with a 10' tree branch ceiling near me... I have parked that with the Colt a few times. The ceiling is definitely the tricky part. If I mess up my throw, it isn't because of distance or aim. It is the height. I never feel like the Colt is getting out of control even when I power it up. I will say that the Stud powers up better but the Colt is no slouch.
 
Still lovin' the Stud.
I lost a DX Stud in the pond yesterday (long story, my fault) so I just ordered some more DX and XT. The XT is definitely my preferred blend. My biggest beef is that the disc seems like it should be able to handle a headwind but it cannot. Apart from that the Stud seems to be good at pretty much anything else under 300' for me. You can get the Stud out longer than that but you get diminishing returns. Might as well disc up to a mid.

My Star Stud will handle the wind on shorter approaches if I throw it low and hard with just a bit of hyzer. I'd love to be able to say I can throw a Stud 300 ft., but I'd need the Goliath-killing slingshot to do that.

Also, my Star Stud has begun to season in, and has become a lot straighter and not particularly stable. I've been throwing the Rhyno into the wind, and with great results, so I don't call upon the Star Stud for many shots upon which I used to rely upon it. I mainly throw the Stud on approaches out to 200 ft. or so, utilizing its accuracy over any distance I could get. I go to mids for longer approaches.

I haven't thrown a proto Colt but my production run DX is pretty good. We have a 310' hole with a 10' tree branch ceiling near me... I have parked that with the Colt a few times. The ceiling is definitely the tricky part. If I mess up my throw, it isn't because of distance or aim. It is the height. I never feel like the Colt is getting out of control even when I power it up. I will say that the Stud powers up better but the Colt is no slouch.

I'm glad your Colt is working for you. My production DX Colt and my Star Colts became flippy, understable, and pretty unreliable with time and (a surprisingly small amount of) use. It got to the point I was not using the Colt for anything but anny turnover shots, and I now use the Mirage for that, so I removed the Colt from my bag to make room for other discs. Sad day, too, because I have such fond memories of that original DX Colt...
 
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Also, my Star Stud has begun to season in, and has become a lot straighter and not particularly stable...
That's what I was afraid would happen. Brand-spankin'-new Studs aren't quite as HSS as I would like. I'm not eager to see how much it loses as it ages. Hey Innova, where are the Champ Studs? I basically want an XT Stud that will never break in.

...I'm glad your Colt is working for you. My production DX Colt and my Star Colts became flippy, understable, and pretty unreliable with time and (a surprisingly small amount of) use...

LOL... my Colt has less than 100 throws so I can't vouch for its durability!
Right now she seems pretty good. Time will tell. Hopefully she'll age more gracefully than yours but I'm not holding my breath.
 
I actually have a production colt that is indispensable in my bag. I throw with almost no OAT, where I can throw Sonic's without flip. The production Colt will flip. But it will start flipping half way and do so slowly, almost like a perfect reverse S curve. I can't get any other disc to do that.
 
That's what I was afraid would happen. Brand-spankin'-new Studs aren't quite as HSS as I would like. I'm not eager to see how much it loses as it ages. Hey Innova, where are the Champ Studs? I basically want an XT Stud that will never break in.

I realized that the V-Tech was keeping my Stud from being the somewhat-overstable hyzer machine that I wanted it to be. When I throw a (relatively) high hyzer with my P2 or Rhyno (or Harp, but that's another story for another day), I aim right of the basket and the disc comes back left to the basket (RHBH throw). The Stud was staying to the right and not fading back. And that was before it was really seasoning in. So now I just throw the Stud right at the basket, like a Mako3 but at shorter distances.

And what I wanted to say in this post is that I don't think Champion Studs or Colts are going to be all that much more stable, and because of the V-Tech. I haven't thrown an XT Stud; it might be like those proto-Colts and work very well for OS shots. And I hope I'm wrong if Champ Studs do come out, that they'll be more overstable. Time will tell... :popcorn:
 
Got the studs in yesterday. They look good. I know a lot of people don't like the dx artwork but I think it looks good on this disc. I haven't seen a dx stud in person to do a full comparison. On this one the horse is jumping through the stamp. I want to get out and throw them but it was raining yesterday and still really wet this morning. Maybe later today.

Sent from my LGLS775 using Tapatalk
 
so many great molds from so many good companies.. perfect example here of one that you dont here enough about.
 
Got the studs in yesterday. They look good. I know a lot of people don't like the dx artwork but I think it looks good on this disc. I haven't seen a dx stud in person to do a full comparison. On this one the horse is jumping through the stamp. I want to get out and throw them but it was raining yesterday and still really wet this morning. Maybe later today.

Sent from my LGLS775 using Tapatalk

Are they flat? Domey? TIA.
 

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