Intro, thoughts old-school vs. new-school gear?

[pdx-disc]

Hey all. Long time website user but finally signed up. Disc golfing since about '93 or so, in Oregon USA.

I have a lot of old Innova DX discs that are pretty beat up, and some newer Discraft Z and Innova Champion discs. You can see the list here if you're curious, went through them recently: http://www.dgcoursereview.com/organizer.php?mid=61072

Right now my go-to combo is a Discraft Flash for long range and Discraft Soft Magnet for short range - I have three of each. But I'm obviously missing a lot in the middle, so I have been using some of my older Innova DX discs for mid range - Gazelle, Eagle, Valkyrie.

Admittedly, I am pretty out of touch with the disc-golf technology advances. So many new brands, new plastics, and so forth it's hard to keep up. I have stayed true to Innova and Discraft for 20 some years, and I honestly can't tell much difference between old designs and new ones out on the course. I'm wondering what I'm missing in terms of newer brands, newer designs, and newer plastics. Is there really much difference, for an amateur, versus the classic brands/designs/plastics of yore?

Another question. I am using a very old backpack not made for disc golf. I can't do single-strap bags, and the giant dual-strap bags are too much. But looking for a better backpack with disc access. I have read a lot of backpack threads, and it seems like the Latitude 64 Luxury, the Dynamic Discs Ranger, and the Millennium Flak are the main backpacks purpose built for disc golf. Any others I should look at? Thoughts on backpacks?

Thanks!:thmbup:

 

[Pbmercil]

Is there really much difference, for an amateur, versus the classic brands/designs/plastics of yore?

Right now it is a premium plastic dominated game. With the high speed drivers available premium plastic is really needed to prolong the life of the discs. Every company has a few different blends available under various names that are roughly similar. There are still plenty of guys that use the baseline stuff for putters, mids is about 50/50 premium vs old school. But premium plastic is where its at these days. I've got more then one innova driver ITB approaching 8+ years of use and are still in great shape.

In terms of molds; the new highspeed drivers are pretty crazy. Not everybody can throw hard enough, or grip them comfortably, to get a lot extra distance out of them. But for those that can, the things bomb compared to the old school, smaller rimmed drivers of yore. Now all the new mids and putters and fairways, EH. Plently of guys like the new stuff. And that's fine, but they're still largely the same as the stuff that's been available forever.

People have favorites when it comes to companies these days. Every company has something they bring to the table, but I don't think they're all that different. The disc technology is largely the same across brands. It comes down to preferences. Especially with the highspeed drivers. I throw innova highspeed drivers, but I'm 100% I could switch to Prodigy/Discmania/Legacy/Lat 64 without missing a beat.

Thoughts on backpacks?

It all comes down to what you want out of a bag and how much you're willing to spend. Personally, I think its worth shelling out a bit for the more expensive bags (IE Grip Equipment, Golf Mahal, LB Disc golf, Upper Park Designs) then going for the cheaper ones you listed. But that just comes down to preference too. There are a TON of backpack bags out there, and all of them have many happy customers that love their bags.

 

[Innovafan2562]

Welcome to an awesome web site from IL

 

[slowplastic]

Yeah, the biggest difference is that if you want to go to premium plastics (which is necessary with super sharp/wide rims to not get gashes), the alternative/newer companies have some really good feeling plastics out there. If you want to stick with Innova/Discraft there's nothing wrong with that either. Fairways I really don't know if much has been improved on...Teebirds and Eagles etc. are still standards for control, but lots of new stuff gives the ability to have a premium plastic fairway driver that is understable out of the box. As well lots of people like to use "control" drivers for fairways at speed 9ish, but that's personal (and I personally don't like it for my setup). Also lots of mids have gotten faster and faster so it's common to throw premium plastic speed 5 mids that get out there on low lines.

There's lots of glidey distance drivers out there too, so if you have a decent arm it may be fun to try some of the very well received newer-ish discs like a Tern, as it's quite forgiving and long for a variety of power levels (and is a different stability in star/Gstar/champ). Basically there's a lot of higher speed discs out there that aren't meathooks, to give people with 350' power the ability to throw that far, straight, on a lower line, when something like a Destroyer would have too much fade.

 

[DavidSauls]

Yeah, I go back almost as far ('96). I still throw some of my old discs, as well as new stuff. The premium plastics have made a huge difference, in terms of discs maintaining their flight characteristics over time. And today's distance drivers are much longer, even for a weak arm like myself, for whom they help mask my decline in distance.

Then again, my 14-disc bag currently contains 2 discs from the players pack at the 2001 Am Worlds.

 

[MikeM]

I throw mostly Champion type plastic as the trees I plunk chew up my discs fast otherwise.

Eagle still kicks some major ass in my book. Most seem to prefer the "straighter" Teebird, which came out in '98. I just switched from Teebirds to Eagles myself.

Can't go wrong with a Buzzz as a mid-range.

Even when I first started, I could tell a huge difference between all discs. New or old style discs I personally don't think matters as much. Just what fits your game is all that matters. That is just my opinion though.

Get yourself an UpperPark Shift. You are welcome in advance

 

[RFrance]

Not amateurs but old school and fun to watch.

Old school challenge Part I
And Part II

 

[Smigles]

Bags: Look at the grip bag, it's what most people use nowadays.

Discs: Discs got faster over the years. Which wont help you much unless you have the armspeed to actually use ultra fast discs. Also about every company released a new plastic with air holes in it, to make discs lighter but with more or less the same flight path as max weight ones. Innova blizzard, Prodigy air plastic etc, its all the same.

But you dont need those new discs to play well.

 

[pdx-disc]

Thanks for the tips and thoughts everyone.

I'm liking the look of the upper park backbacks quite a bit; I will probably get one of those. Glad to know there are a lot of options out there.

My experience with the DX plastic has definitely been a lot of wear over time. I have retired or given away a lot of my old DX discs. But it sounds like the new plastics last a lot longer, so maybe I should be using my newer discs more.

I don't know if I can get used to some of the lightweight (~150g) discs that seem to have become popular but it might be fun to try one out.

It's funny how far things have come. One of my first sets of discs (long since lost) was marked like ball golf clubs - #1 driver, #5 iron etc.

 

[Peter S]

Something that comes to mind that you missed is bags are now overpriced backpacks.

On a serious note the most important thing you are missing is a Star Destroyer.

 

[TAFL]

Admittedly, I am pretty out of touch with the disc-golf technology advances. So many new brands, new plastics, and so forth it's hard to keep up. I have stayed true to Innova and Discraft for 20 some years, and I honestly can't tell much difference between old designs and new ones out on the course. I'm wondering what I'm missing in terms of newer brands, newer designs, and newer plastics. Is there really much difference, for an amateur, versus the classic brands/designs/plastics of yore?

There is a lot of difference to be found. It's a whole new world, it seems.

I hadn't updated anything in my bag since the turn of the century, as playing the handful of times I did each year didn't require anything new to be enjoyable and I wasn't throwing so much that I wanted to try lots of new stuff. Last year I listened to my doctor about getting more active in general and decided to spend more time playing bad golf.

I found that many favorite discs are out of production. There are lots of companies I'd never heard of selling discs. There are many different plastic blends available. Lions and tigers and bears--oh, my!

So I've bought a lot of new discs. I've updated to several new molds because those molds work better for me than what I used before. For example, I threw a Shark for mid-range duties since it first came on the market. Season one a bit (meaning buy a new one and throw it into the ground a bunch) and I could put that on a wide variety of lines and get it to dance. Well, I threw a Vibram Ibex and fell in love--flew like a seasoned Shark directly out of the box for me--and carried a bit farther.

I'm also experimenting with using a variety of mid-ranges in place of the Shark, figuring it'll be easier to shape the turning lines better with discs well-suited to it. So I have a Mako and a Wombat to supplement the Ibex.

And in looking for a replacement for my favorite driver, which is OOP, I've found other fairway drivers that I really like. So I have fairway drivers by Innova and Discraft...and Discmania and Westside. And my Innova discs are all largely in newer plastics, now.

 

[pdx-disc]

On a serious note the most important thing you are missing is a Star Destroyer.

Funny you should mention that. Stopped by Disc Golf Depot today and got some new discs.

Understable/overstable pairs, of four different ranges/speeds. All equal weights in their speed type.

Vulcan/Destroyer.
Roadrunner/Firebird.
Kite/Roc.
Wedge/Rhino.

Also got a fresh Aviar and a few others.

I threw a round at Pier Park tonight and it is amazing how much better these discs throw. It is also really great to have more predictability in terms of flight path.

There is a lot of difference to be found. It's a whole new world, it seems.

Yeah I agree, there's almost too much choice. I'd been surviving on old discs, stuff I found, and recently a bunch of newer Discraft Z plastic that I got from a friend (and don't know much about).

 

[MikeM]

Thanks for the tips and thoughts everyone.

I'm liking the look of the upper park backbacks quite a bit; I will probably get one of those. Glad to know there are a lot of options out there .

:thmbup::thmbup::thmbup: I have a Shift because I don't need something as big as a Ranger or a Grip. I always liked the idea of having a backpack as a disc bag and now I can have one specifically made for holding discs.

Something that comes to mind that you missed is bags are now overpriced backpacks.

Somewhat agree about the bags. Definitely hurts to spend the money. But, once you do, there is no buyers remorse; having a bag produced specifically for the sport ends up being much easier and more enjoyable than shuffling through a bunch of discs in a bag and picking one out for each throw. Also makes it easier to keep track of all of your discs. Of course, this depends on how many discs one has and how often one plays.

I used to think makeshift bags (that I formulated from Goodwill finds) were the way to go. Once I accumulated enough money to purchase actual disc bags, I realized what I was missing out on.

 

[corin_brown]

I've only been playing for 5 years and I had no idea that premium plastic was such a new development. As far as I can tell, there's not much new under the sun coming from all the brand new disc makers that Innova & Discraft doesn't already have covered. Good enough for McBeth & The Champ, good enough for a duffer like me.

Competition is great, of course, but I just don't see any new developments coming from all the fledgling disc makers.

The area of innovation that is really interesting is in the bags, specifically with the backpack bag. But, as was mentioned above, they're quite pricey. I have an Innova competition bag w/straps and it's quite good, for me. Retail, that's around $90. As far as I can tell, the comparable backpack bags are quite a bit more expensive than that.

 

[wolfmandragon]

....
Competition is great, of course, but I just don't see any new developments coming from all the fledgling disc makers.
...

Ah, you might want to actually pick up an MVP/Axiom disc. You may not like them, but they made a radical departure from historical design.

That or pick up a Kastaplast Rask, as far as I know, the first truly new patent on a disc shape since Dave patented the beveled disc. A meathook with glide, who knew?

 

[wolfmandragon]

...
Good enough for McBeth & The Champ, good enough for a duffer like me.
...

McBeth or Climo could beat the likes of us with disposable pie plates. Lets not confuse discs with ability.

 

[pdx-disc]

McBeth or Climo could beat the likes of us with disposable pie plates. Lets not confuse discs with ability.

Yeah very true. Although for us mortals, I think most of us still play a lot better with the discs we like to use than we would with pie plates. ;-)

I ordered an Upper Park Shift this morning. Looks like the right size bag for me (Rebel is probably overkill), and I like that they've steadily improved the design since it was first released. It's good to see a company that responds to the constructive criticism of the early reviews positively.

Digging my discs out of my backpack last night, I kept thinking, "well this would be easier with an open bag that was actually designed for discs."

 

[Kodachrome]

Hey all. Long time website user but finally signed up. Disc golfing since about '93 or so, in Oregon USA.

I have a lot of old Innova DX discs that are pretty beat up, and some newer Discraft Z and Innova Champion discs. You can see the list here if you're curious, went through them recently: http://www.dgcoursereview.com/organizer.php?mid=61072

Right now my go-to combo is a Discraft Flash for long range and Discraft Soft Magnet for short range - I have three of each. But I'm obviously missing a lot in the middle, so I have been using some of my older Innova DX discs for mid range - Gazelle, Eagle, Valkyrie.

Admittedly, I am pretty out of touch with the disc-golf technology advances. So many new brands, new plastics, and so forth it's hard to keep up. I have stayed true to Innova and Discraft for 20 some years, and I honestly can't tell much difference between old designs and new ones out on the course. I'm wondering what I'm missing in terms of newer brands, newer designs, and newer plastics. Is there really much difference, for an amateur, versus the classic brands/designs/plastics of yore?

Another question. I am using a very old backpack not made for disc golf. I can't do single-strap bags, and the giant dual-strap bags are too much. But looking for a better backpack with disc access. I have read a lot of backpack threads, and it seems like the Latitude 64 Luxury, the Dynamic Discs Ranger, and the Millennium Flak are the main backpacks purpose built for disc golf. Any others I should look at? Thoughts on backpacks?

Thanks!:thmbup:

as far as discs go, i'd say mvp/axiom has the premium driving putter market on lockdown.

you're going to find a lot of mids nowadays that are almost as fast as your gazelle. the valk is still relevant for sure. still bombs forever and hyzerflips well, very versatile mold. same with the eagle, a classic for sure. gazelle is a criminally underappreciated disc, but with how fast the mids are, you're more likely to find people going with mid->teebird/eagle or mid->saint/PD. i myself prefer the slower putters, mids and fairways with the exception of my tensor and the jury is still out on that even though i like it.

if you like your dx gazelle, get a cfr glo gazelle or a F2 star gazelle. will complement it perfectly as it seasons in.

 

[MikeM]

Yeah very true. Although for us mortals, I think most of us still play a lot better with the discs we like to use than we would with pie plates. ;-)

I ordered an Upper Park Shift this morning. Looks like the right size bag for me (Rebel is probably overkill), and I like that they've steadily improved the design since it was first released. It's good to see a company that responds to the constructive criticism of the early reviews positively.

Digging my discs out of my backpack last night, I kept thinking, "well this would be easier with an open bag that was actually designed for discs."

:thmbup::thmbup::thmbup::thmbup:

You are going to love it!

 

[corin_brown]

Lets not confuse discs with ability.

Huh?

You think McBeth & Climo's don't care about their equipment? Please. Just because McBeth can almost win a major with second-hand discs after having his bag stolen (2015 Memorial), doesn't mean he doesn't have the highest standards for discs of any other player in the world. Of course his standards are the highest, he's the world's best player! He wants every single edge he can get. It matters more to him than anyone else! In fact, some people wonder if the results of the 2015 Memorial would have been different if McBeth never had his bag stolen in the middle of the tournament. He ended up having to go to a playoff with Big Jerm. What if he hadn't had his bag stolen? You think that might have saved him at least ONE stroke during regulation, playing with HIS DISCS as opposed to someone else's?

My original point, by saying, "good enough for McBeth & Climo, good enough for a duffer like me", which I think I must not have articulated well enough, is that McBeth's & Climo's standards for discs, being so much higher than the standards of discs of a duffer like myself, make my decision to play with the same discs that they do, a very easy and comfortable decision to make. I know their discs are the best because their standards for their discs are the highest. They HAVE TO BE.