Lack of integrity maybe?

[jtreadwell]

So getting a penalty in football would be the equivalent of calling the infraction in disc golf but seconding it would be like accepting the penalty and not declining it. At least that's how I'm reading what you posted. If not calling it or calling it to gain a strategic advantage over your opponent is what you're trying to do than I see that as just playing to win via loophole and not actually with a disc.

It can be seen that way yes. While it may be more honorable to play the rules as people generally agree they should be played, there is no shame in understanding and using the actual rules to your advantage, particularly at higher levels of play. If you feel your honor is infringed upon by playing this way, you could either A) not play this way and hope your opponents don't either or B) inform your opponents that you are going to be a stickler to the rules ahead of time so they know you treat disc golf like any other sport with a rulebook. If enough people feel that this rule is unjust or "not cool" then there will be a movement and it will be changed. Until then, it's foolish not to take every advantage you can. Don't get me wrong, I am actually really lax about this in casual play, but during a tourney you should follow the rules.

 

[BradC]

Will, it was on 15 when he made that bogie. I'm referring to his first straddle putt when his right foot was clearly closer than his mini to the basket. I'm sure he didn't do it intentionally cause he could have looked down real quick after missing and made the call himself.

How much closer was the off foot? It's not a straight line perpendicular to the line of play, it's an arc. Think of a three point line.

 

[JReynolds]

I think you are missing the whole point of the rule... The point is to ensure that no one player has an advantage over the others... If he (they) missed the putt, then it is obvious that it was not enough of an advantage to worry about

 

[ejvogie]

How much closer was the off foot? It's not a straight line perpendicular to the line of play, it's an arc. Think of a three point line.

The off foot cannot be ANY amount closer than your lie. At the distance a pro is missing a putt, the length between an arc and straight line perpendicular will be negligible anyhow.

 

[FierceTable]

This is the very reason I have no desire to ever play more competitively than intermediate in any disc golf tournament. I played in one this past weekend. The guy in my final group foot faulted on almost every throw that wasn't off the tee (basically took a step out from behind his marker before throwing on every throw). He was on the lead card in the division, but he was doing so poorly in the final round I didn't have the heart to call him on it since he was tanking so hard that round.

Had I been playing in a golf tournament I wouldn't have hesitated to point out the infraction, but disc golf at a non-open/advanced level just doesn't feel like the right atmosphere to be a rules enforcer for someone who is already not having any fun. I can completely see the other side and wouldn't disagree with calling him on it or seconding the call, but it just doesn't feel right personally to make the guy feel even worse.

 

[mashnut]

^This is the attitude that keeps those people from ever learning to play by the rules.

 

[BENFTS]

In this case, wouldn't it be in thier best interest NOT to call it? Maybe not an integrity issue, but a rules issue?

This^^^

I do this all the time. Humm player 1 just missed a 10' putt and was in an illegal stance.....

Should I call the fault and give player 1 another chance to make the missed putt?

Should I keep my mouth closed because player 1 just missed a putt in the no miss zone?

Ill go with the second choice.

 

[Spookyspence]

This is the very reason I have no desire to ever play more competitively than intermediate in any disc golf tournament. I played in one this past weekend. The guy in my final group foot faulted on almost every throw that wasn't off the tee (basically took a step out from behind his marker before throwing on every throw). He was on the lead card in the division, but he was doing so poorly in the final round I didn't have the heart to call him on it since he was tanking so hard that round.

Had I been playing in a golf tournament I wouldn't have hesitated to point out the infraction, but disc golf at a non-open/advanced level just doesn't feel like the right atmosphere to be a rules enforcer for someone who is already not having any fun. I can completely see the other side and wouldn't disagree with calling him on it or seconding the call, but it just doesn't feel right personally to make the guy feel even worse.

I would of told him to stop doing it, but not called it on him as far as to get a penalty.

 

[BradC]

The off foot cannot be ANY amount closer than your lie. At the distance a pro is missing a putt, the length between an arc and straight line perpendicular will be negligible anyhow.

I understand that. I was simply stating that if he was shooting, say a thirty footer, his off foot could have appeared to be closer, but in reality not.

This topic has been discussed on here.

 

[BradC]

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48097&highlight=arc+perpendicular+putting+line

10m = 5cm with a 1m straddle. Thats 2". It is perfectly conceivable for someone to have a legal stance, but look illegal if someone is not aware of this.

Closer to the pin, the larger the discrepancy. Even a pro can bone a 20' straddle putt here and there.

 

[cyberspace wrangler]

integrity? no. bad rule? yes. ....simple: foot fault equals one throw. How do you progress a sport with rethrows/mulligans for a rule violation.

 

[FierceTable]

integrity? no. bad rule? yes. ....simple: foot fault equals one throw. How do you progress a sport with rethrows/mulligans for a rule violation.

This wouldn't help my own reasoning for not calling it, but this would certainly help the majority of earlier posters It's an interesting concept really...mulligans are lame in any sport as far as I'm concerned. I just played ping pong with a guy last night who didn't lose a point for serving off the table...lame.

 

[BENFTS]

integrity? no. bad rule? yes. ....simple: foot fault equals one throw. How do you progress a sport with rethrows/mulligans for a rule violation.

Made think of this. What if a player hits a 200' gem but manages to fault on the throw somehow you get to take away that shot and smash his confidence and probably enrage him too.

I think once we get to the point where we have officials on every hole on all tournaments to just call it for what it is, taking away the player on player hate factor we will keep having this problem.

 

[Bacon]

What would the illegal stance be? Sorry ive never heard of a stance you cant use as long as your feet are behind the marker.

 

[joshmo65]

I've been looking for a place to post this, and here looks like a good place...

According to Section 3.3.B.11

B. Players are expected to behave in a professional and sportsmanlike manner while participating in a PDGA sanctioned event. Actions that are in violation of this conduct include but are not limited to:

(11) Overt failure or refusal to enforce the rules of disc golf during competition.

I believe that the penalty for this is disqualification from the tournament. I have never heard of anyone getting DQed over not calling penalties on other players, but you should be calling faults any time the player screws up. How is it any different from you not calling a fault on a guy's bad shot than him calling a fault on one of his?

 

[Jay Dub]

What baffles me is why so many disc golfers want to cover up for a cheater. :wall:

#1: Don't cheat or try to bend the rules.

#2: If you see some one cheat or bend the rules call them on it.

 

[cyberspace wrangler]

Made think of this. What if a player hits a 200' gem but manages to fault on the throw somehow you get to take away that shot and smash his confidence and probably enrage him too.

I think once we get to the point where we have officials on every hole on all tournaments to just call it for what it is, taking away the player on player hate factor we will keep having this problem.

good call. yes, it would be simple if officials were on every hole. players dont want to call out someone. an unbias official would fix it.

 

[Jay Dub]

good call. yes, it would be simple if officials were on every hole. players dont want to call out someone. an unbias official would fix it.

Are you volunteering for this?

 

[weeman]

Jay Dub brings up an excellent point. Who really wants to spend their time sitting on one hole watching the groups coming thru all day making infraction calls? No one, that's who. That's why it would be important for the players to police themselves. For everyone that wants disc golf to be respected as much as bolf, how can it be without the players being held accountable to enforce their own rules? Outsiders, casual pedestrians, and innocent bystanders can easily get the wrong impression about how seriously we take our own sport by how little we adhere to the most basic of rules.

 

[garublador]

I believe that the penalty for this is disqualification from the tournament. I have never heard of anyone getting DQed over not calling penalties on other players, but you should be calling faults any time the player screws up. How is it any different from you not calling a fault on a guy's bad shot than him calling a fault on one of his?

The case with foot faults on putts is a bit different. If you're colluding with other players for an advantage (which is why this rule is in place) then someone will call a foot fault on you if you miss a putt and this rule won't apply. If no one calls it, then everyone is not calling penalties and that's the only time the rule would apply. So if you call someone out on not calling foot faults in this case then you'll be guilty of the same thing. The logic behind all of it is screwed up because there is an advantage to breaking the rule in some cases.

This is fixed by simply not calling the rule if the player doesn't get an advantage (they miss the putt). As someone else pointed out earlier it's more like declining a penalty in football. The opposite team may have broken the rules, but if the outcome is better for your team if the penalty is not called then it's illogical to enforce the rule.