Line pulling contraption

[BrotherDave]

Here's the basic concept on the staggered step. Do this experiment:

Stand up straight with your legs shoulder width apart, pick an imaginary target over your lead shoulder if you want, and reach back like you would during your run-up.

Now step your lead foot 'forward' (in the direction your toes are pointed, not forward towards the target) into the stagger stance. Do the same reach back.

You should feel 2 things: 1st is it's much easier on your torso/back when you're at the peak of your backswing, 2nd is that it's easier to execute a straight pull. The other added benefit is that it naturally 'loads your hips' - and if you watch the pros throw it's hips -> shoulders -> arm building the energy and momentum into one fluid motion.

I'm so duck-footed that this is nearly impossible. I've always had a feeling it was handicapping me some how.

 

[PuzzledGuy]

I recently made a Mobius Line Puller and it has definitely helped me out. It gave me the opportunity to feel how my body should be moving when pulling the line. Within a week of using the MLP, I threw my longest drive ever during fieldwork and started seeing increased turn in my discs. I'm definitely throwing more consistently and hitting my lines more often.


Unfortunately, the weather has turned south here, so it's making it more difficult to put in the field work to better assess the impact.

 

[PuzzledGuy]

Worth noting, Mobius is one step of arrogance away from being considered a straight up troll on /r/discgolf.

I'll be the first to agree that he can be difficult at times (he's always willing to speak his mind), but he also provides a lot of good information. He's written some solid blog posts at http://https://www.vorticasport.com/blog.

 

[JTacoma03]

I'm so duck-footed that this is nearly impossible. I've always had a feeling it was handicapping me some how.

So I'm on the opposite end of that, I've had a bit of a pidgeon toe walk my whole life that I've worked to correct. That said, there are two power throwers that exemplify both of our issues.

Drew Gibson is the pidgeon toed approach guy. He plants his foot turned away from his target and comes all the way through.

Simon on the other hand, he has a bit of a duck footed approach. He plants toe-out and has a smaller ankle pivot than most, but at the same time he is the one who I've heard emphasize the staggered plant foot in clinics quite often.

I think it's similar to reachback, where there's no "right" amount, as long as you can smoothly get that disc up to speed. :thmbup::thmbup:

 

[BrotherDave]

So I'm on the opposite end of that, I've had a bit of a pidgeon toe walk my whole life that I've worked to correct. That said, there are two power throwers that exemplify both of our issues.

Drew Gibson is the pidgeon toed approach guy. He plants his foot turned away from his target and comes all the way through.

Simon on the other hand, he has a bit of a duck footed approach. He plants toe-out and has a smaller ankle pivot than most, but at the same time he is the one who I've heard emphasize the staggered plant foot in clinics quite often.

I think it's similar to reachback, where there's no "right" amount, as long as you can smoothly get that disc up to speed. :thmbup::thmbup:

Hmm, I'll have to pay attention to that. Usually when I see Simon, I'm too busy looking 400' off the ground to the right waiting for his disc to appear. That's encouraging to hear. Too bad I don't share Simon's lanky AF frame though.

I did make a little conscious effort in getting my toes to turn counter-clockwise and there does seem to be something to this. I've been having trouble starting with my hip consistently and I think this may be my fix.

 

[1978]

A lawn mower on a shelf would suffice.

 

[ranger]

A lawn mower on a shelf would suffice.

Lawnmower? Terrible jerk off machine.

 

[rhatton1]

@ Ranger

This is where Chris got the idea originally -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hjonbKLVUg
his takes it on a bit and allows you to actually release the disc - I'm not convinced this is the best idea as as mentioned previously in this thread an actual pull will be more of an out in out line than straight (as opposed to a classic rounding line of in, out, in or a shoulder spinner of straight, out, in). I suspect trying to use the line puller to drill a throw will give you a decent drive but will create more bad habits that would need breaking again in the future if you wanted to get to absolute maximum distance potential. the top down of Will and SW's top down of Nybo show you clearly that you want to be going off a straight line away from your body through the Hit.

The idea of the attached video is to try and break the Noob rounding and then the shoulder spinning rounding where your shoulders open early and the disc never gets to the power pocket.

A simple contraption like this along with SW's drills should help break some bad habits and the toilet roll getting ripped of the disc gives immediate feedback when you're pulling offline.

Again this is not a perfect throw driller this is a drill to help break some bad habits.

 

[PuzzledGuy]

Let me start by saying that my form leaves a lot to be desired.

With that out of the way...

I've watched all the videos and practiced all the drills, and I still could not break the rounding habit. Hell, I didn't even know for sure what rounding felt like - or what a could throw should feel like. And that was the problem.

That's where the Mobius Line Puller helped me. I know have a better understanding of what it feels like to pull the line and get into the power pocket. Using the MLP, I was able to experiment with different stances, reach backs, and pull throughs.

I still have some rounding to work through, but my drive has improved, and more importantly, I know have a much better understanding of when I am rounding and what a good drive should feel like.

@rhatton1: You said that you suspect using the line puller may create more bad habits. Any suggestions on what I should be looking out for or avoiding as I use the line puller?

 

[billyjacko]

@rhatton1: You said that you suspect using the line puller may create more bad habits. Any suggestions on what I should be looking out for or avoiding as I use the line puller?

Only use it for getting the feel of pulling straight from peak reach back to just before/at your abdomen/chest with your hand on the outside of the disc. After that your elbow should be forward and the disc will begin arching outward as the elbow unfolds.

I think the line you really want to think about is the line running from directly behind the arch of your plant foot to the target (back of teepad slicing your foot in half directly to the target.) The lower body mechanics start to come together if you just try to keep your shoulders riding that rail all the way through the throw. In the backswing it will be your throwing shoulder that rides the rail back and forward to when the disc begins coming to your chest, then the torso rotates out of the way of the disc and the off shoulder stays on the line all the way to the fallow through. I don't think it really matters where the disc starts as long as your hand isn't behind this line (towards your back in the backswing/actual rounding). The disc can travel inside->out (looks like rounding, but it's not), outside->in->outside (Doss), or straight down (I'm pretty sure Schusterick falls into this group.)

I think this image is the best de-bunk of the idea that the disc should stay on a perfectly straight line. I don't know if he made it, but Sidewinder uses this a lot to explain rounding. I think people say 'pull on a straight line' because it's the easiest way to explain to a new player how not to round.

 

[PuzzledGuy]

Thanks for the reply - lots to try to absorb.

There's something I don't quite understand about this picture. When I look at the good example (top half), it looks to me like the thrower is engaging too early, never getting the disc into the power pocket. I'm guessing there's something I've interpreted incorrectly.

Here's what I see:

• Shoulders are parallel to the trajectory
• The hand is on the forward edge of the disc
• Disc is far away from the body

I would expect to see the disc closer to the body with the hand on the outside of the disc. In this photo, I don't see how the disc could have ever come close to the right pec (i.e., the power pocket).

Suddenly, I have lots of questions about the position of the body when the disc is in the power pocket:

• Should the shoulders be parallel to the trajectory?
• How open should the right shoulder be?
• How should the weight be distributed on your feet? (i.e., should you be in full brace, just engaging the brace, etc)

One thing I'm thinking is that maybe I've taken getting the elbow forward to the extreme, having the elbow closed and the shoulder at close to 180 degrees open.

Of course, there's a winter storm warning with snow, plunging temperatures, and high winds. I'd really like to go throw some drives, but that's going to have to wait a while.

 

[sidewinder22]

Thanks for the reply - lots to try to absorb.

There's something I don't quite understand about this picture. When I look at the good example (top half), it looks to me like the thrower is engaging too early, never getting the disc into the power pocket. I'm guessing there's something I've interpreted incorrectly.

Here's what I see:

• Shoulders are parallel to the trajectory
• The hand is on the forward edge of the disc
• Disc is far away from the body

I would expect to see the disc closer to the body with the hand on the outside of the disc. In this photo, I don't see how the disc could have ever come close to the right pec (i.e., the power pocket).

Suddenly, I have lots of questions about the position of the body when the disc is in the power pocket:

• Should the shoulders be parallel to the trajectory?
• How open should the right shoulder be?
• How should the weight be distributed on your feet? (i.e., should you be in full brace, just engaging the brace, etc)

One thing I'm thinking is that maybe I've taken getting the elbow forward to the extreme, having the elbow closed and the shoulder at close to 180 degrees open.

Of course, there's a winter storm warning with snow, plunging temperatures, and high winds. I'd really like to go throw some drives, but that's going to have to wait a while.

That pic is basically at the "hit" where the hand and disc CoM crossover, not the "power zone" or "right pec". KJ is in the "power zone" at about 8 sec in below. The Right Pec Drill is a drill from a static position to teach a feeling, once you add more dynamic movement things change a little. The faster your "arm speed" the further back from the right pec the disc will actually be, so the top throwers are actually often closer to their center/sternal notch or even left pec in their power zone. I often see players take the Right Pec Drill too far and short arm their swing arc.

Your weight distribution should be 100% on the front leg before you really start swinging. See Closed Shoulder Drill and watch GG throw. There are some variances with different body types regarding how open the shoulders end up(skinnier shoulders turn faster), but the power into the outward arc is always applied from a closed shoulder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5xfv9jPqZs&t=8m26s