Longer? compensating for something?

[Billipo]

Are there any good examples of holes where blue tee are shorter than white tees?

One of our clubs established courses has a hole where tree growth has made the white tee location significantly more difficult than when installed and arguably more difficult than the Blue tee.

I proposed that the two tees be swapped. Others were shocked reason being - "Blue has to be longer". The current Blue is 340' and the current White is 315'.

BTW we are getting concrete tee pads in 2 weeks!

 

[Cgkdisc]

Several courses where the longer tee on a hole is for the lower skill level where the par is one higher on that tee, i.e., Blue Par 3 on shorter tee and White Par 4 on longer tee. In one case, I made the long tee a Red Par 4 and the shorter tee a White Par 3 on the last hole for the following reason. Players have to throw over the corner of a small pond about 50' wide. Most Red level players cannot reach the pond from the long tee but most can easily reach the front edge and clear it on their next throw. Landing in the pond is right in the wheelhouse of white level players if they throw from the long tee. However, they can easily clear the pond when driving from their short tee to reach the putting circle. Of course, those who have been playing the white tees that are all longer than red on the first 8 holes sometimes miss this tee switch on hole 9 and play the long red tee, risking the pond.

 

[_MTL_]

Hole 15 at this course has that:

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=312

The white tee, despite being 45 feet longer, is much easier. The blue is a very tricky angle.

 

[DavidSauls]

Several courses where the longer tee on a hole is for the lower skill level where the par is one higher on that tee, i.e., Blue Par 3 on shorter tee and White Par 4 on longer tee.

We have a hole along similar lines at Stoney Hill, but they're not color-coded. There are two overlapping layouts. One hole, on the harder layout, has a basket location that's a Par-3; on the easier layout, the same tee goes to a longer basket location that's a Par-4. It has to do with routing to the next holes.

If we color-coded them, they might be a blue-layout and a white-layout. That hole would be a shorter, easier hole on the blue layout, a longer hole on the white layout.

It makes sense to me to have something similar on a multiple-tee course, where the situation warrants.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I know doing this can be confusing to some players because it makes them think a bit about appropriate lengths for skill levels and par for that level. But I'd like to think that some amount of thinking should be part of the game to raise it above the "all par 3" mentality.

 

[Steve West]

We ought to sticky a universal answer to any and all questions about course design:

"In general it's a bad idea, but doing it once on a course is OK and may make the course better."

 

[ILUVSMGS18]

Holes 7 and 14 at this course have longer Whites than Blues, but I find both Blues to be easier for me.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/mobile/course.php?id=3637&mode=hi

 

[TimmyGah]

Looks like pretty easy short hyzers from the map. (Although the map makes hole 14 look longer than the whites)

 

[leath]

Here the Red tees are longer or equal to the Whites throughout the whole course. They share 8 tees, but the other 10 make the Red layout 1,600 ft longer.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=4270&mode=hi

I've played it a number of times, and to me (somewhere in the Red-White overlap) the pars seem pretty reasonably set for the intended skill levels on those tees- red 69, white 54, it also has Blue tees at 69. Those who don't know the PDGA recommended tee colors might be confused by the "beginner" tees being the middle ones. In this case, the Red tees are marked with tee signs and the White and Blue only with colored markers set into the ground, so most casual players will end up playing Reds anyway.

 

[kenjiac]

Are there any good examples of holes where blue tee are shorter than white tees?

One of our clubs established courses has a hole where tree growth has made the white tee location significantly more difficult than when installed and arguably more difficult than the Blue tee.

I proposed that the two tees be swapped. Others were shocked reason being - "Blue has to be longer". The current Blue is 340' and the current White is 315'.

BTW we are getting concrete tee pads in 2 weeks!

Although i can agree with a blue tee being shorter than a white tee if the blue line is harder to execute. From your photos a little branch cleaning would seem more appropriate that changing the tee colors. Get a polesaw and loppers and clean up that white gap a little.

 

[Billipo]

UPDATE:

Concrete pads are installed! First PDGA event held yesterday. MPO and MA1 played blue first round and white second round. Below is the data...

MPO Blue - 2.85 avg. White - 2.57 avg.
MA1 Blue - 2.75 avg. White - 3.0 avg.

Kinda interesting results.

 

[Billipo]

Update on hole. Please reference original post.

Regarding 2019 post question, there were no changes made despite fear of White becoming more difficult and Blue remaining virtually the same. - Blue is the still the longer tee box, white is the shorter option.

Just a designer warning on Mother Natures affects over time.

Recent tournament played 3.0 from White for Am players. Same score average as in original 2019 post but ...What is significant is that everyone but a single birdie and bogie. the entire field scored par (3). My initial thought is hole has become "too hard to try for birdie" and no one is risking the attempt with the fast green. Making White layout the worst hole on the course.

Yet Blue remains a very similar hole.

I remember when hole was installed thinking an ace was a possibility. Pictures attached to show vegetation growth progression 2010 - 2023. Interesting progression I thought I would share.