[Drivers] Looking for a Stable/Understable DD

[SuperWookie]

Looking to jump into a neutral or slightly understable DD. Something in the speed 11-12. I have a few good FW or longer FW discs I currently use for longer holes when I have a wide fairway and just want to bomb, but want to try to find a distance driver that can get me another 10-30' or more.

My current longest consistent golf line discs are a Discmania Essence 175g, Instinct 175g, Proton Axiom Insanity 175g and a Neutron Streamline Trace 168g. All are great for certain shots, and the Trace is the closest thing to a distance driver I have. But not quite. It's still just a little more o/s for my ability right now. I can throw it 320-340 on a golf line when thrown well, but it always fades somewhat significantly at the end. Like 10-20'. Which is great for longer shots that I need to control. As I always know it isn't going to flip or turn or turn on me, and will always come back a little at the end. But it's not a pure wide open distance driver disc.

So I'm looking for something in the 11-12 speed range, 5-6+ glide and something that has a small S shape flight, with a small fade. Also would really prefer it to have a 2.2cm or smaller rim width. I have a Prodigy 400 D3 Max at 175g, but it's still too much disc for me on avg. And I really don't prefer how big the rim width is at 2.4cm. The 2.2cm rim width on my Trace is the largest I'm comfortable with. But... if the disc flew how I wanted, I guess I could get used to a 2.4cm rim. Just prefer something thinner.

I've thrown my D3 Max super far maybe 5-6 times ever in the field and it requires way too much bad form and strain to get it out there. It's gone 400ish feet those 5-6 times, which is amazing for me! But, it's not a disc I'd ever use on the course. I have NO idea where it's going to go with the amount of effort and body english I have to put on it, to get that distance. Plus unless I hit it perfect with great form and a ton of speed and flat, it just hyzers out left before it can get any real distance.

Maybe if I picked one up in the 160-170g range it would fly more like the flight path it shows? Because as of right now, it doesn't even come close to 12/6/-2.4/1.5. At 175g, is flies more like 13/5/0/3 for me! It's only when I hit it perfectly flat and with some good pace, does it fly a bit more like the numbers. But still, even on my max distance throws where it goes around 400', it's still like a 13/5/-1/2. So not sure if that's because it's a speed 12 with a HUGE rim depth of 2.4 and I just don't have good enough form to consistently hit it perfect? Or because it's a max weight at 175g? Or what? I thought when I bought it, it would be the best long distance driver for my current form and arm speed. But it's been a bust so far.

Also picked up 2 Enigma's back when they came out in 175 and 170. And neither is good for my ability at the moment. WAY too overstable for me, and I can't get then out 350-400 like a DD should be doing at my current form level. Maybe in a few years time when my form gets better and I can actually sling a disc how you're supposed to, they'll be great. But not right now.

But I'm looking for something like that. Maybe a light weight D3 Max? In the ~165g range would allow me to actually get it out there, turn and then glide forever before it eventually fades back? Or maybe even a D4 Max at around 170-175g? Anyone that has a D3 Max or D4 Max, let me know how you like it and how it flies, especially compared to other discs you bag. And what your typical distance is with it, and other drivers and fw discs?

Then I was also thinking maybe about a Prodigy H4V2? In 170-175g range? I see TONS of great reviews for that disc, and already bag a few Prodigy FW's that I love. Just not sure if it's a LONG enough disc to be considered my DD, or just a slightly longer FW? Different sites say 9 or 10 speed. Which is pretty close to my long FW's as it is. Anyone that has experience with this disc, please let me know if it flies more like a distance driver, or more like a slightly longer FW?

Maybe an MVP Wave, Innova Mystere, Innova Shryke, DD Sheriff, Prodigy X4 or X5? Or maybe one of the discs I've mentioned or some other discs I haven't, but in lighter weights or slightly softer plastics? Like a 160-170g in S type plastic?

What I'm looking for doesn't really seem to exist, at least not based solely on flight numbers. What I'd really like is a disc that was a 11 or 12 speed, 6 glide, -2 or -2.5 hss, and 1-2 lss with a 2-2.2cm rim width. Basically just a longer, glidier version of the Insanity which is perfect for my FW shots that need to go longer with less control, 9/5/-2/1. And a smaller tighter S turn flight, as opposed to some huge sweeping right turn, then huge fade back left. I don't want that.

And a flight path along these lines:

 

[Twmccoy]

I was actually going to suggest the Enigma until you stated you'd tried (and didn't like) them. You're going to need a pretty flippy disc if you think the Enigma is too beefy.

You might look at something like a Thrasher, G* Shryke, or a Hades. In fact, I'd say the Hades could be your best bet for that power level. They turn fairly easily and glide well.

 

[Deuzzz]

Definitely check if your d3max has bad flashing on the bottom. All mine have come eith baf flashing which makes the fly really OS against they're natural tendency. Too bad I didn't know about it when I had them. Would love to try one without that awful flashing (you cand sand it of).

Otherwise Enigmas shouldn't be that OS. Maybe you got unlucky with some really OS ones?

I would be looking for a 167-171g weight range. Good choices would be a new run lucid Trespass, G*Shryke, Halo Tern, Z Thrasher or a Hades. Some of those are already mentioned. My 169g g*shryke is my longest disc on the field, but I don't trust it enough to bag for scoring rounds (it's THE disc I can achieve +400ft drives).

I have struggled with the same problem as you and I have found more success on sticking with slower speed stuff as accuracy is way better.

 

[acrosley]

I can only throw around 330 max but I've had a lot of success with Astras and Trespasses. I have a 175 lucid trespass that flexes perfectly and a 163 lucid air that's pretty domey and is actually more OS than the 175.

Astras may not be super glidey but my farthest throws are with them. I have a 167 Millennium that UDisc measured at 400 once and a 167 Quantum that is a good bit more OS

 

[SuperWookie]

Definitely check if your d3max has bad flashing on the bottom. All mine have come eith baf flashing which makes the fly really OS against they're natural tendency. Too bad I didn't know about it when I had them. Would love to try one without that awful flashing (you cand sand it of).

Otherwise Enigmas shouldn't be that OS. Maybe you got unlucky with some really OS ones?

I would be looking for a 167-171g weight range. Good choices would be a new run lucid Trespass, G*Shryke, Halo Tern, Z Thrasher or a Hades. Some of those are already mentioned. My 169g g*shryke is my longest disc on the field, but I don't trust it enough to bag for scoring rounds (it's THE disc I can achieve +400ft drives).

I have struggled with the same problem as you and I have found more success on sticking with slower speed stuff as accuracy is way better.

When you say bad flashing, do you mean that tiny little sharp flappy piece along the bottom side of the rim?! If so, then I need to sand off a BUNCH of discs! I hate that stuff. I had no idea that made the disc more O/S. Although, in this case, I'm not sure the D3 Max has that. I'll check, and even if it doesn't, I'll sand that down, make it rounder? But I know for a fact i have that little sharp lip on lots of other discs and I never use those discs for FH! Maybe it'll make all those discs les O/S and easier to FH now! Thanks for letting me know about that!

I'll try that first on the D3 Max before I start looking for other discs. But thanks for those suggestion. I'll try 1-2 of those if the sanding doesn't work.

And I'm 100% sure the two Enigmas 170g and 175g I got, along with the Essence 175g I got, are ALL way O/S for what they should be! I've read so many reviews of people that can only throw 300' ish max distance (when I can throw 350-400' max) can throw both of those discs super far with ease. And yet none of the ones I have are understable at all! The 175g Enigma is like a meathook, the 170 is very O/S, but on occasion I can get it out to 350 on a perfect throw, but still has a ton of fade. And the Essence is more like an 8/5/0/1.5! It's not understable in the slightest! And most people say that disc is a magic disc! 9/6/-2/1 and goes forever with little effort. Maybe I should try a 170ish g Essence as well? See if that gets me more of the flight path it's supposed to have?

 

[Deuzzz]

When you say bad flashing, do you mean that tiny little sharp flappy piece along the bottom side of the rim?! If so, then I need to sand off a BUNCH of discs! I hate that stuff. I had no idea that made the disc more O/S. Although, in this case, I'm not sure the D3 Max has that. I'll check, and even if it doesn't, I'll sand that down, make it rounder? But I know for a fact i have that little sharp lip on lots of other discs and I never use those discs for FH! Maybe it'll make all those discs les O/S and easier to FH now! Thanks for letting me know about that!



I'll try that first on the D3 Max before I start looking for other discs. But thanks for those suggestion. I'll try 1-2 of those if the sanding doesn't work.



And I'm 100% sure the two Enigmas 170g and 175g I got, along with the Essence 175g I got, are ALL way O/S for what they should be! I've read so many reviews of people that can only throw 300' ish max distance (when I can throw 350-400' max) can throw both of those discs super far with ease. And yet none of the ones I have are understable at all! The 175g Enigma is like a meathook, the 170 is very O/S, but on occasion I can get it out to 350 on a perfect throw, but still has a ton of fade. And the Essence is more like an 8/5/0/1.5! It's not understable in the slightest! And most people say that disc is a magic disc! 9/6/-2/1 and goes forever with little effort. Maybe I should try a 170ish g Essence as well? See if that gets me more of the flight path it's supposed to have?

Yes I mean exactly that lip on the picture! It isn't intended to be there and the factory should be always removing it but I guess factories are already being pushed to their limits.

Neo plastic in the start can be a bit OS so I would just try working it in and especially the essence should start to show some turn. When my essence was brand nee it barely had any turn, but now I have one that is really beaten in and I can hyzer flip it from a ton of hyzer.

 

[Dr. Bogey]

The Wave is good. You could also try a DX Wraith. If you like it and it gets too flippy get another Wraith in GStar at about 160g.

 

[ray1970]

What you're looking for sounds like a Trespass. Specifically a Lucid in the 165-170 range.

As far as sheer distance, if we were throwing in a wide open field I'd probably pick a Shryke in that same weight range. I don't bag the Shryke because it can be a little unpredictable on the course.

 

[seedlings]

Please try a ~165g Gstar Corvette. It is not possible to be disappointed. They come in a nice light-ish blue.

If you're artificially intimidated by a 14 speed, then get the 160-165g Trespass or Wraith suggested. Don't get super domey.

 

[Hampstead]

Different arms throw discs differently.


That is all.











(concise post was mostly concise)

 

[SuperWookie]

So to everyone suggesting a Tresspass, thank you, but I'm not sure I'm following. That disc says it is a 12/5/-1/3, which sounds a lot like a Destroyer or similar type disc. Which is WAY too O/S for me. I can't even get my Enigma's to turn at all (and those are supposed to be "flippy" compared to a DD3 or Destroyer), nor my Essence (which mine is not understable at all), nor my 168g Streamline Trace. And my 175g 400 D3 Max that is 12/6/-3/1.5 doesn't turn either. So I'm just not following how a Tresspass with it's 12/5/-1/3 numbers will be what I'm looking for? I would assume I'd throw that thing like crap and it would fade left hard within 100-200' for me. Can you explain WHY you think it will be what I'm looking for?

Are those numbers provided just not "real"? Does it fly like what I'm looking for, not what the numbers say? I see at least a few suggestions for a ~167g Lucid Tresspass. I have a few Lucid and Lucid X discs, and that is their O/S premium plastic. So wouldn't a disc with 12/5/-1/3 numbers in a premium stiff plastic be even more O/S? Not less?

Maybe I should look at a ~165g Fusion Tresspass? I guess I just need more explanation as to WHY you guys are suggesting a Tresspass when it seems on the surface like the opposite of what I want. But I'm obviously open to suggestions if you can explain WHY you're suggesting it.

I definitely don't want a distance driver that has 3 fade. I want it to have like 1-1.5. I want a disc that just leaks out right the whole way a tiny bit, then slowly fades back to the middle for a 0 net gain or loss of fade. A small tighter S pattern that is predictable and long. Like the flight path photo I showed in my original post.

Thanks for the suggestions so far. I went through ALL my FW and driver discs last night and sanded the rim lips on them with course and then super fine sandpaper. Hopefully that makes them all fly more like how they should fly and more U/S. Will have to wait till this weekend to see, as it's stupid hot, humid and rainy again this week. But if that doesn't work, I'll give a few of these discs your suggesting a try. Thanks

 

[Deuzzz]

So to everyone suggesting a Tresspass, thank you, but I'm not sure I'm following. That disc says it is a 12/5/-1/3, which sounds a lot like a Destroyer or similar type disc. Which is WAY too O/S for me. I can't even get my Enigma's to turn at all (and those are supposed to be "flippy" compared to a DD3 or Destroyer), nor my Essence (which mine is not understable at all), nor my 168g Streamline Trace. And my 175g 400 D3 Max that is 12/6/-3/1.5 doesn't turn either. So I'm just not following how a Tresspass with it's 12/5/-1/3 numbers will be what I'm looking for? I would assume I'd throw that thing like crap and it would fade left hard within 100-200' for me. Can you explain WHY you think it will be what I'm looking for?



Are those numbers provided just not "real"? Does it fly like what I'm looking for, not what the numbers say? I see at least a few suggestions for a ~167g Lucid Tresspass. I have a few Lucid and Lucid X discs, and that is their O/S premium plastic. So wouldn't a disc with 12/5/-1/3 numbers in a premium stiff plastic be even more O/S? Not less?



Maybe I should look at a ~165g Fusion Tresspass? I guess I just need more explanation as to WHY you guys are suggesting a Tresspass when it seems on the surface like the opposite of what I want. But I'm obviously open to suggestions if you can explain WHY you're suggesting it.



I definitely don't want a distance driver that has 3 fade. I want it to have like 1-1.5. I want a disc that just leaks out right the whole way a tiny bit, then slowly fades back to the middle for a 0 net gain or loss of fade. A small tighter S pattern that is predictable and long. Like the flight path photo I showed in my original post.



Thanks for the suggestions so far. I went through ALL my FW and driver discs last night and sanded the rim lips on them with course and then super fine sandpaper. Hopefully that makes them all fly more like how they should fly and more U/S. Will have to wait till this weekend to see, as it's stupid hot, humid and rainy again this week. But if that doesn't work, I'll give a few of these discs your suggesting a try. Thanks

I'll answer the Trespass part. The numbers on the disc are totally misleading for all plastics except lucidX/Hybrid/HybridX. If you want the flippiest plastic try to find a biofuzion one. It will start OS but will beat in really quick.

As you said you want a driver that leaks to the right all the time I could lean more to a G*Shryke or G*Tern in the 160-169 range.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

OP, at your distances, I think you'd be better served with a Star/Gstar Valk or Sidewinder.
But if you're set on 11 speed, maybe a Pro Wraith.

 

[SuperWookie]

I'll answer the Trespass part. The numbers on the disc are totally misleading for all plastics except lucidX/Hybrid/HybridX. If you want the flippiest plastic try to find a biofuzion one. It will start OS but will beat in really quick.

As you said you want a driver that leaks to the right all the time I could lean more to a G*Shryke or G*Tern in the 160-169 range.

Hmmm, ok. So what you're saying, is that in Lucid, Fuzion, and BioFuzion, the Trespass isn't a 12/5/-1/3 disc? If that is correct, then what would you (and the others) suggest the actual numbers are for Lucid, Fuzion, Biofuzion in that 165-170g range?

I just found a 169g Hybrid Tresspass online in a color I bag. Would that fly like the numbers 12/5/-1/3, or much more U/S as you are suggesting? It says the hybrid is like a combo of Fuzion and Lucid. But doesn't say much about it's stability.

And I might just have to try out a Shryke in star or Gstar to see what's up with that disc. I just played with some guys on vacation and one of them had a Shyrke and it went far for his arm speed. When he hit it right, it went 30-50' farther than any disc I was throwing, but his normal shots without were shorter than mine. So it must be a sneaky long disc?

Thanks for the suggestions and explaining

 

[EllEstar]

A Trespass is (normally) more understable than a Trace, if both are 8-9/10 in premium plastic and similar heavy weight.

Flight numbers are assigned by manufacturers and not always comparable between companies. Trilogy (esp. Lat and WS) tend to run more understable than their numbers.

Lucid and Fuzion aren't that different in terms of stability, not like Champion and Star or Z and ESP. Lucid-X (especially the Chameleon/Moonshine variants) are noticably more overstable.

A Pro Wraith could be very good, similar to a Trespass, but you might get a dud, the Pro plastic isn't quite as consistent.

 

[aphilso1]

Hmmm, ok. So what you're saying, is that in Lucid, Fuzion, and BioFuzion, the Trespass isn't a 12/5/-1/3 disc? If that is correct, then what would you (and the others) suggest the actual numbers are for Lucid, Fuzion, Biofuzion in that 165-170g range?

I just found a 169g Hybrid Tresspass online in a color I bag. Would that fly like the numbers 12/5/-1/3, or much more U/S as you are suggesting? It says the hybrid is like a combo of Fuzion and Lucid. But doesn't say much about it's stability.

And I might just have to try out a Shryke in star or Gstar to see what's up with that disc. I just played with some guys on vacation and one of them had a Shyrke and it went far for his arm speed. When he hit it right, it went 30-50' farther than any disc I was throwing, but his normal shots without were shorter than mine. So it must be a sneaky long disc?

Thanks for the suggestions and explaining

I've bagged Trespasses off and on basically since I started playing. Owned and thrown at least a dozen of them, and in a variety of plastics (Fuzion, Bio, Lucid, Lucid-X, and Moonshine). A Trespass is a Destroyer for guys that can't get Destroyers up to speed. Unless you play at high elevation, a Trespass should give you the actual -1 turn at your stated golf line distance of 320'-340'. It won't be the longest disc you've ever thrown, but it very well could be the disc that blends reliability and distance the best. It was made to be a workhorse distance driver mold for guys like me and you. Also, Trilogy plastic beats in rather quickly in faster molds, so you should be able to get a cycle started quickly if by chance mold minimizing is something you care about.

Now for the negatives of the molds. If you do live at elevation, it is a disc that flies just a tad too stable to see that -1 turn at only 330'. My arm is right there in your neighborhood, and I now have a hard time getting a fresh Trespass to turn here in Utah. I didn't have that problem when I lived in the Midwest. As previously mentioned, Trilogy drivers beat in fast. You either have to embrace the concept of cycling, or throw a different brand for the 11+ speed stuff. And lastly, it is never going to be the longest disc you've ever thrown, even after beating in. So depending on how you're hardwired mentally, you may still have that nagging suspicion that there's a more perfect mold out there.

Plastics overview: Lucid and Fuzion are really close in stability. Fuzion beats in maybe a tad quicker, but not enough to matter. If you watch any of the DD Pros' In the Bag videos, you'll see that most of them throw the two plastics interchangeably. The difference is nothing like the gap between Star and Champion. Moonshine does come out a half tick more stable than Lucid/Fuzion, but beats in just as quickly. Lucid-X is noticeably more beefy than that; Lucid-X is going to fly more like you'd expect a Destroyer to. Biofuzion is the oddball. All the other plastics mold up remarkably consistent -- very similar PLH, dome, and stability from run-to-run. But Bios don't have that same consistency. I've had pop-top max distance Bios, overstable flat Bios, etc. Biofuzion will beat in quickly and become squirrelly too -- fly basically a -3 turn/2 fade line. Not a flight that is easy to control. Because of the odd way they fly after beating in and the inconsistency from run to run, I don't recommend Biofuzion.

 

[aphilso1]

A Trespass is (normally) more understable than a Trace, if both are 8-9/10 in premium plastic and similar heavy weight.

Flight numbers are assigned by manufacturers and not always comparable between companies. Trilogy (esp. Lat and WS) tend to run more understable than their numbers.

Lucid and Fuzion aren't that different in terms of stability, not like Champion and Star or Z and ESP. Lucid-X (especially the Chameleon/Moonshine variants) are noticably more overstable.

A Pro Wraith could be very good, similar to a Trespass, but you might get a dud, the Pro plastic isn't quite as consistent.

Dang it. I just realized ElleStar said basically the same thing as me, but managed to do so with only 10% of the effort. Apparently brevity is not my strength.

 

[SuperWookie]

A Trespass is (normally) more understable than a Trace, if both are 8-9/10 in premium plastic and similar heavy weight.

Flight numbers are assigned by manufacturers and not always comparable between companies. Trilogy (esp. Lat and WS) tend to run more understable than their numbers.

Lucid and Fuzion aren't that different in terms of stability, not like Champion and Star or Z and ESP. Lucid-X (especially the Chameleon/Moonshine variants) are noticably more overstable.

A Pro Wraith could be very good, similar to a Trespass, but you might get a dud, the Pro plastic isn't quite as consistent.

Thanks for that info. So if you could give a Trespass an "actual" flight number rating in Lucid or Fuzion, what would you say it would be? Since you guys are saying it's NOT an actual 12/5/-1/3

 

[aphilso1]

Thanks for that info. So if you could give a Trespass an "actual" flight number rating in Lucid or Fuzion, what would you say it would be? Since you guys are saying it's NOT an actual 12/5/-1/3

I'd call it 11/5/-1/2 or 11/5/-1/3 on Innova's scale. A fresh Trespass is pretty close to a Wraith in terms of power requirement and flight path. The difference is more in hand feel than anything else. Trespass feels shallower than a Wraith. I also typically get an extra 10' or so out of a Trespass compared to a Wraith. But a Wraith will fight the wind a little better and beat in way slower. Similar discs but still not quite the same.

All that being said, at your power you should actually see the 5 glide, -1 turn, and 3ish fade out of a Trespass. It should fly like the numbers for a 340' thrower at normal elevation. A Destroyer on the other hand will not fly like the numbers for you...it might be labeled -1 turn and 3 fade, but you (and I) don't have the arm speed to get a Destroyer to turn.

 

[SuperWookie]

I'd call it 11/5/-1/2 or 11/5/-1/3 on Innova's scale. A fresh Trespass is pretty close to a Wraith in terms of power requirement and flight path. The difference is more in hand feel than anything else. Trespass feels shallower than a Wraith. I also typically get an extra 10' or so out of a Trespass compared to a Wraith. But a Wraith will fight the wind a little better and beat in way slower. Similar discs but still not quite the same.

All that being said, at your power you should actually see the 5 glide, -1 turn, and 3ish fade out of a Trespass. It should fly like the numbers for a 340' thrower at normal elevation. A Destroyer on the other hand will not fly like the numbers for you...it might be labeled -1 turn and 3 fade, but you (and I) don't have the arm speed to get a Destroyer to turn.

Thanks.

But this just confirms what I didn't want. I don't want a disc that flies with more lss fade, then hss fade. I want something that flies like 6 glide/-2hss/-1lss. So even though DD's numbers might be exaggerated compared to other brands, it still won't fly how I want. Right?

Or are you guys saying, that is how if flies right out of the gate, but that it will quickly beat in to even MORE U/S? And more how like I want? With -2 to -3 hss and less fade at the end?