[Drivers] Looking for a Stable/Understable DD

[aphilso1]

Thanks.

But this just confirms what I didn't want. I don't want a disc that flies with more lss fade, then hss fade. I want something that flies like 6 glide/-2hss/-1lss. So even though DD's numbers might be exaggerated compared to other brands, it still won't fly how I want. Right?

Or are you guys saying, that is how if flies right out of the gate, but that it will quickly beat in to even MORE U/S? And more how like I want? With -2 to -3 hss and less fade at the end?

No, a Trespass is not going to give you that little amount of fade. It's still a fast disc, and fast discs fade.

The only exception I have seen to that rule is with the gyro drivers. Somehow MVP/Axiom drivers seem to fly more like a faster fairway driver in their understable molds. They still fade (they are fast discs, after all) but less so than traditional one-piece molds.

I'd recommend a Plasma Wave as a Trespass with less fade. Or a Neutron Vanish if you want something even more understable.

 

[seedlings]

Ok, so please go buy an ESP Heat under 170g. Don't get a champ sidewinder, unless you aren't yet full of disappointment.

If you message me, I'll send you something.

 

[autocrosscrx]

I throw a touch shorter. Maybe about 20 feet.

I find the Trespass really stable. I can flip up a Wraith to flat, and sometimes turn it a bit. The Trespass just holds the hyzer. I throw it when I absolutely can't miss right with the Wraith.

 

[SuperWookie]

No, a Trespass is not going to give you that little amount of fade. It's still a fast disc, and fast discs fade.

The only exception I have seen to that rule is with the gyro drivers. Somehow MVP/Axiom drivers seem to fly more like a faster fairway driver in their understable molds. They still fade (they are fast discs, after all) but less so than traditional one-piece molds.

I'd recommend a Plasma Wave as a Trespass with less fade. Or a Neutron Vanish if you want something even more understable.

Ohhhh. Ok. I did not know that "in general" fast discs fade almost no matter what. Thanks for letting me in on that little nugget of info.

And thanks for letting me the gyro drivers are much better at fading less. I have about 4-5 discs total from Axiom/MVP/Streamline, but mostly putters. I have a Proxy, Ion, Insanity x 2 and Trace x 2. And they are all AWESOME discs!

I'll have to see if I can pick up an U/S Axiom driver when they become available. I love how they feel, fly and last. They are like the most luxury top of the line discs I can think of. SOOO durable and LOVE all the choices of plastics and colors. No idea why they aren't the most popular discs on the market!? They are light years better than every brand. The overmold technology in and of itself they have is flawless and it works SO well on the throwing putters and other discs of theirs I have.

Especially the putters. My Neutron Proxy and Ion might as well be called mid ranges! I can only throw most putters 240-260 on a really good throw. My Ion and Proxy go that far on easy throws and up to 290 and up on good throws! Something about that gyro tech just makes them keep pushing forward, and even if they fade, it's always forward. SOO stable, yet easy to throw. I literally only have 2 midranges anymore because of them, and barely use either mid, haha. Only on specific shots, haha.

Thanks for the info and help. I'll post again on here when I figure all this out and let you guys know how it turned out and what driver turns out to be the best for me :thmbup:

 

[Lumberjack504]

I think you'd like a pro wraith given your golf distance and desired flight path


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[SuperWookie]

Got another question for you guys about the these distance drivers, and specifically, the Trespass. I can't really find many online, but a few places have some. And there are a few at this one online retailer. in the colors I bag, and it says it's a Hybrid plastic.

Which I think I remember someone saying that Lucid and Fuzion are the more understable of the plastics for DD's? So is the hybrid more overstable and not as understable like most DD plastics? Or is that not correct? Because when i look up Hybrid plastic for DD, it says it's a mix of the Lucid and Fuzion. So that should mean they would be neutral or slightly more understable than their flight numbers show? Is that right? If so, I'm going to pick up a few of those as well to try.

I already grabbed 2 more Streamline Trace's in Neutron and CN at 173g and 168g. Then found two light weight teal Star Wraiths I'm going to give a whirl as well. Then would like to find a few Trespass's as well. The when Axiom/MVP release more Waves and Vanish's, going to try those as well. I've been throwing my Trace REALLY well lately and far! But then I went and lost it yesterday (threw it into a dead headwind and it flipped hard right into some super tall weeds and couldn't find it).

So just want to make sure the Hybrid plastic isn't going to be overstable like a Champ or 750 type plastic. As long as it's more along the lines of the Lucid or Fuzion, I'm going to pick up a few to try. Thanks

 

[adriens95]

I would go with Fuzion if you want more turn. It looks like both Fuzion and Lucid are in stock at a few of the bigger online stores. I throw them in Lucid, Bio, and Fuzion but have not tried Hybrid.

 

[SuperWookie]

Definitely check if your d3max has bad flashing on the bottom. All mine have come eith baf flashing which makes the fly really OS against they're natural tendency. Too bad I didn't know about it when I had them. Would love to try one without that awful flashing (you cand sand it of).

Otherwise Enigmas shouldn't be that OS. Maybe you got unlucky with some really OS ones?

I would be looking for a 167-171g weight range. Good choices would be a new run lucid Trespass, G*Shryke, Halo Tern, Z Thrasher or a Hades. Some of those are already mentioned. My 169g g*shryke is my longest disc on the field, but I don't trust it enough to bag for scoring rounds (it's THE disc I can achieve +400ft drives).

I have struggled with the same problem as you and I have found more success on sticking with slower speed stuff as accuracy is way better.

So I just wanted to update you on this topic. The first thing I did was sand ALL of my discs. All of them had some tiny or medium amount of sharp flashing that was still on the disc. So I hit them all with the medium grit sanding block, then went back with my hand and fine grit to make it nice and smooth. I didn't take off a ton of plastic, but I did sand them pretty good and got a more rounded edge on the rim/wing, as opposed to the super sharp edge most discs come with from the factory.

And low and behold, all my discs now fly a touch straighter or more understable compared to what they did before. Not drastic, but definitely noticeable. But it didn't help my Prodigy D3 Max. I'm just convinced I don't have the current disc speed ability to throw a speed 12 disc with a 2.4cm wide rim. I think 2.1ish is the largest rimmed disc I can throw far and with consistency. But... I'm going to hold onto it and hopefully someday it will be something I can use. It is weird disc though. VERY touchy to nose angle and hyzer angle. If I hit it PERFECT with a flat release and nose flat or down, it will GO! Like I said, I've thrown it around 400' about 5-6 times and it's so cool to see a disc I'VE thrown go that far. But usually, if I throw it with even the slightest amount of hyzer or nose up, it has a horrible flight. Short and dumps out left around 250' or so. But then if I throw it on even a slight anny angle, it will just instantly go right and turn into the ground real fast. Almost like a roller. And I'm having a lot of luck with my Streamline Trace discs. Speed 11 and 2.1cm wide rim. That's the max I can throw well right now.

But, the sanding of the flashing has effected all the discs I sanded. And for the better! Like my floppy 400 Prodigy F5 that should be a turnover disc or hyzer flip disc, was just a straight shot disc with fade! But now, that I've sanded it, it definitely will turn right a bit, and ride that most of the way. With either no fade at the end or a tiny bit. Same for every disc I sanded. It just takes the "edge" off of the HSS and LSS fade of that disc. So my FB is now a throwable wind fighter and FH wonder! My Instinct is even straighter and a few times got a tiny bit of turn on some good rips. And so on throughout my bag. If I had to put a # on how much it changed the discs, I'd say it took .5 off of both HSS and LSS fade. And just made all the discs a little bit easier to throw and get a flight out of them.

Then I also ordered 6 drivers mentioned here or that I already like. I got 2 Streamline Trace's (a 174g Neutron DGPT Championship, and a 168g Sarah Holkom CN. I lost my Neutron 168g this weekend! I'm SO pissed. It's literally been the most amazing disc for me since I got it about a month ago).

Then I got 2 Innova Star Wraiths (both are 168g. 1010 discs said they are not domey, but not flat, and their picking me the lowest PLH ones they have).

And then 2 Hybrid DD Trespasses (both are 168g, and same thing. 1010 discs is picking the ones with the lowest PLH for me).

So I'm going to start playing with 1 each of those 3 different types of discs over the next few months and find out which ones I like the best. And also have 2, so in case one is amazing, I already have a backup or second stiffer more O/S one :thmbup:

Thanks for that little tip about sanding the discs. It's something I'm going to do from now on with ALL my discs. It also helps a LOT with being able to FH a disc now! Almost all my discs are now at least in theory ABLE to be FH'd without any weird pain or catching on my hand!

 

[EllEstar]

Supposedly Hybrid is a bit more OS than Lucid and Fuzion but not as OS as Lucid-X, never thrown it though.

 

[Twmccoy]

So I just wanted to update you on this topic. The first thing I did was sand ALL of my discs. All of them had some tiny or medium amount of sharp flashing that was still on the disc. So I hit them all with the medium grit sanding block, then went back with my hand and fine grit to make it nice and smooth. I didn't take off a ton of plastic, but I did sand them pretty good and got a more rounded edge on the rim/wing, as opposed to the super sharp edge most discs come with from the factory.

And low and behold, all my discs now fly a touch straighter or more understable compared to what they did before. Not drastic, but definitely noticeable. But it didn't help my Prodigy D3 Max. I'm just convinced I don't have the current disc speed ability to throw a speed 12 disc with a 2.4cm wide rim. I think 2.1ish is the largest rimmed disc I can throw far and with consistency. But... I'm going to hold onto it and hopefully someday it will be something I can use. It is weird disc though. VERY touchy to nose angle and hyzer angle. If I hit it PERFECT with a flat release and nose flat or down, it will GO! Like I said, I've thrown it around 400' about 5-6 times and it's so cool to see a disc I'VE thrown go that far. But usually, if I throw it with even the slightest amount of hyzer or nose up, it has a horrible flight. Short and dumps out left around 250' or so. But then if I throw it on even a slight anny angle, it will just instantly go right and turn into the ground real fast. Almost like a roller. And I'm having a lot of luck with my Streamline Trace discs. Speed 11 and 2.1cm wide rim. That's the max I can throw well right now.

But, the sanding of the flashing has effected all the discs I sanded. And for the better! Like my floppy 400 Prodigy F5 that should be a turnover disc or hyzer flip disc, was just a straight shot disc with fade! But now, that I've sanded it, it definitely will turn right a bit, and ride that most of the way. With either no fade at the end or a tiny bit. Same for every disc I sanded. It just takes the "edge" off of the HSS and LSS fade of that disc. So my FB is now a throwable wind fighter and FH wonder! My Instinct is even straighter and a few times got a tiny bit of turn on some good rips. And so on throughout my bag. If I had to put a # on how much it changed the discs, I'd say it took .5 off of both HSS and LSS fade. And just made all the discs a little bit easier to throw and get a flight out of them.

Then I also ordered 6 drivers mentioned here or that I already like. I got 2 Streamline Trace's (a 174g Neutron DGPT Championship, and a 168g Sarah Holkom CN. I lost my Neutron 168g this weekend! I'm SO pissed. It's literally been the most amazing disc for me since I got it about a month ago).

Then I got 2 Innova Star Wraiths (both are 168g. 1010 discs said they are not domey, but not flat, and their picking me the lowest PLH ones they have).

And then 2 Hybrid DD Trespasses (both are 168g, and same thing. 1010 discs is picking the ones with the lowest PLH for me).

So I'm going to start playing with 1 each of those 3 different types of discs over the next few months and find out which ones I like the best. And also have 2, so in case one is amazing, I already have a backup or second stiffer more O/S one :thmbup:

Thanks for that little tip about sanding the discs. It's something I'm going to do from now on with ALL my discs. It also helps a LOT with being able to FH a disc now! Almost all my discs are now at least in theory ABLE to be FH'd without any weird pain or catching on my hand!

Throw that D3 away. It sounds like you got a lemon. No use frustrating yourself further trying to throw it any more.

 

[Ash435]

What you're looking for sounds like a Trespass. Specifically a Lucid in the 165-170 range.

As far as sheer distance, if we were throwing in a wide open field I'd probably pick a Shryke in that same weight range. I don't bag the Shryke because it can be a little unpredictable on the course.

I was going to say Trespass. Plenty of distance and very controllable for this kind of driver. Start with Fusion (it's a bit more understable) and if you like the feel, get a Lucid to handle a bit more power and headwind.

For sheer distance (if you can get it up to speed, the (Pro) Corvette is straighter and easier to handle than the flight numbers suggest). I'm planning to try Star and GStar sometime. I find it easier to control than the Shryke.

 

[Blobfish]

Looking to jump into a neutral or slightly understable DD. Something in the speed 11-12. I have a few good FW or longer FW discs I currently use for longer holes when I have a wide fairway and just want to bomb, but want to try to find a distance driver that can get me another 10-30' or more.

... I can throw it 320-340 on a golf line when thrown well, but it always fades somewhat significantly at the end. Like 10-20'. Which is great for longer shots that I need to control. As I always know it isn't going to flip or turn or turn on me, and will always come back a little at the end. But it's not a pure wide open distance driver disc.

So I'm looking for something in the 11-12 speed range, 5-6+ glide and something that has a small S shape flight, with a small fade. Also would really prefer it to have a 2.2cm or smaller rim width. ...But... if the disc flew how I wanted, I guess I could get used to a 2.4cm rim. Just prefer something thinner.

I know you said speed 11-12 but I'll throw this out there: the Discraft Crank is a very easy disc to get big distance from. My Big Z cranks broke in fairly quickly and became very reliable from there on out. They also make a Crank SS if you can find one.
With your distance, you should be able to control the hyzer angle on a crank to flip just right and ride a nice straight path to a fairly neutral finish.

I was going to say Thrasher but that's probably too much on the understable end of what you're looking for, even though weaker arms can get the thrasher to hyzerflip for miles and finish stable. But maybe that's what you're seeking (you have distance to crush this thing even stepping off the gas a touch).

Of course, if you really want to step over to the wild side, take a flier on a Daredevil Yeti or a Bigfoot. They are big winged, but I get almost the same flight out of a new yeti that I do with a seasoned crank.

 

[SuperWookie]

So I've had some time to throw both of these new discs I picked up. A hybrid 168g DD Trespass and a 167g STIFF Ken Climo Star Wraith. And something VERY strange is happening with both discs. They INSTANTLY turn right on every throw I've tried so far! I've only thrown each about 5-6 times, but that was enough to stop throwing them for now, and take them out of the bag. I can't get to my field and practice with them yet (as schools are back in, and their always full of kids practicing sports).

Hyzer or flat doesn't matter, they both just ROCKETED off to the right really hard, and the Trespass is a literal roller disc! I've actually only thrown it one time where it DIDN'T turn into a roller. Last night I tried the DD Trespass on a super steep hyzer flip type angle, and it just took off right, and kept going straight right, baby fade right near the end. SOOOOOOO strange!

So does anyone know what is going on here? I thought with a faster speed disc and a fade of 3, that both of these discs would be pretty O/S for me and I could use them into the wind as my wind distance disc. But nope. I even bought two of each, and all 4 of them are just turnover immediately and then keep sailing right hard!

The only other distance type discs I carry are my 3 Streamline Traces. One is Cosmic Neutron Sarah Hokom at 167g, 1 is reg Neutron at 168g and 1 in a very stiff DGPT Neutron at max weight. And NONE of them turn unless into a stiff headwind. They ALL go straight with a nice forward fade. And can easily be put on a slight hyzer angle and get way left if I need them to.

I thought these two drivers would be even more O/S than my Traces, especially the Wraith. I mean, I have a beat in Goldline Maul that is the flippiest disc I own, and it takes work and a really good throw to get it to be a roller. I just can't do an anyhyzer angle very well. So to see these two semi O/S distance drivers instantly go right or turn into a roller is just confusing the sh*t out of me. I just lost the Star Wraith last night at the local course I play when it took off and sailed SUPER far right. So frustrating. Any ideas what's going on?

 

[discerdoo]

So does anyone know what is going on here?

Your superhero strength must have overpowered the poor discs.

 

[hawgdriver]

Any ideas what's going on?

Probably just spurious pockets of Coriolis force.

More pros need to open up about this in on their y/t channels.

...if you have a scale, couldn't hurt to double check the weights. Probably not the issue, but still...

The vendor might have found discs with abnormally low PLHs.

Maybe some HW?

All I got.

 

[seedlings]

It's OK to take a few MPH off the throw if you find a flippy mold. Or the steep hyzer is what I prefer, but you did try that. I have a 169g Star Wraith that I can start on 50 degree hyzer like this:
/
and the rest of the flight is s curve.

To your point, I have two other Star Wraiths, same weight, one is more overstable, and the third is much more overstable. Have a Proton Trace that will go almost 400' but won't turn a blip.

So, it often depends on the individual disc, which sucks.

 

[Ash435]

Please try a ~165g Gstar Corvette. It is not possible to be disappointed. They come in a nice light-ish blue.

If you're artificially intimidated by a 14 speed, then get the 160-165g Trespass or Wraith suggested. Don't get super domey.

Ignore the 14 speed of the Corvette. I was so intrigued by the sneaky distance and straight lines I was getting from a pro Corvette that I went and bought some F2s in Star, GStar and Champion. I find them all even straighter and I guess I was disappointed there wasn't more difference between them. You'd expect champion to be more overstable but really not much. I've been bagging GStar because of the grip. I'm getting them out to 380' with these, just to put all this talk into perspective.

Also, Trespass is also super straight and fun to throw and Wraith is super workable but can test your arm speed at first.

 

[SuperWookie]

Probably just spurious pockets of Coriolis force.

More pros need to open up about this in on their y/t channels.

...if you have a scale, couldn't hurt to double check the weights. Probably not the issue, but still...

The vendor might have found discs with abnormally low PLHs.

Maybe some HW?

All I got.

So all jokes aside, I don't have a huge arm and can't throw farther than about 350ish on a really good throw. So it's not my power, haha. It's not a headwind. It weighs what it says it weighs because the place I bought them from weighs the discs.

I just can't figure it out. It's SOOO strange. Could it have anything to do with the fact that they are both so thin and sharp edged and fast speed that you have to throw it on a perfect angle, or it will go right?

It's OK to take a few MPH off the throw if you find a flippy mold. Or the steep hyzer is what I prefer, but you did try that. I have a 169g Star Wraith that I can start on 50 degree hyzer like this:
/
and the rest of the flight is s curve.

To your point, I have two other Star Wraiths, same weight, one is more overstable, and the third is much more overstable. Have a Proton Trace that will go almost 400' but won't turn a blip.

So, it often depends on the individual disc, which sucks.

I guess it's just inconsistent molds and I got unlucky. And I wasted money on not 1 of each, but 2 of each. So 4 total. And all 4 of them do the same thing! So a HUGE waste of money. I guess I might keep one of the Trespasses for my long roller disc, since it's SO easy to get it to turn over instantly. I feel like Eagle at the Portland Open with this thing, hahaha. I can't throw a roller with any of my discs consistently as I still can't throw a proper anny. So being able to throw a roller from a flat release angle is a huge plus for me. I could also probably use it for a utility disc of some sort. Probably will just sell the other ones on eBay and move on.

What I REALLY want is a stack of C and S PD's from Discmania to cycle through! I had 2 Lone Howls and sold them for a pretty penny last year, but now wish I had kept them. They were exactly what I wanted. A driver that is longer than a FW for sure, not quite as long as my distance driver, super controllable, has a mostly straight flight path with a very solid hookup left at the end, and fights wind no matter what the conditions! The Discmania guy on here said he expects the PD's to be out in Q4, but we already knew that. And Q4 could be anytime from Oct 1 - Dec 31st. So not helpful at all for this season. I'll be done playing in about 1.5-2 months. So I guess I'll just have to wait till next spring to finally get my controllable drivers cycling in the bag.

 

[seedlings]

Dynamic Disc Getaways are readily available and very solid discs. Like a beat-in FD3 right out of the box. Should have a color you like. I bag one on a lighter weight for awkward footing shots where I can't quite reach a Raptor. Side note: had a buddy go pond diving and found my beloved FD3! I'll have it back this weekend. Raptor will be out.

 

[aphilso1]

So all jokes aside, I don't have a huge arm and can't throw farther than about 350ish on a really good throw. So it's not my power, haha. It's not a headwind. It weighs what it says it weighs because the place I bought them from weighs the discs.

I just can't figure it out. It's SOOO strange. Could it have anything to do with the fact that they are both so thin and sharp edged and fast speed that you have to throw it on a perfect angle, or it will go right?



I guess it's just inconsistent molds and I got unlucky. And I wasted money on not 1 of each, but 2 of each. So 4 total. And all 4 of them do the same thing! So a HUGE waste of money. I guess I might keep one of the Trespasses for my long roller disc, since it's SO easy to get it to turn over instantly. I feel like Eagle at the Portland Open with this thing, hahaha. I can't throw a roller with any of my discs consistently as I still can't throw a proper anny. So being able to throw a roller from a flat release angle is a huge plus for me. I could also probably use it for a utility disc of some sort. Probably will just sell the other ones on eBay and move on.

What I REALLY want is a stack of C and S PD's from Discmania to cycle through! I had 2 Lone Howls and sold them for a pretty penny last year, but now wish I had kept them. They were exactly what I wanted. A driver that is longer than a FW for sure, not quite as long as my distance driver, super controllable, has a mostly straight flight path with a very solid hookup left at the end, and fights wind no matter what the conditions! The Discmania guy on here said he expects the PD's to be out in Q4, but we already knew that. And Q4 could be anytime from Oct 1 - Dec 31st. So not helpful at all for this season. I'll be done playing in about 1.5-2 months. So I guess I'll just have to wait till next spring to finally get my controllable drivers cycling in the bag.

Are you sure you're not rolling your wrist? 350' of power shouldn't be flipping a Trespass, and REALLY shouldn't be flipping a Wraith. I've thrown both molds extensively in a variety of weights and plastics. And my power level is pretty similar to yours. The only time I flipped a fresh Trespass or a Wraith like you're describing, is when I tried just all-out smashing on the disc and as a result started applying some serious Off-Axis Torque. And since I was throwing my slower discs under control, and thus not OATing them, then the logical conclusion was that it was the faster discs' fault. Of course it wasn't actually the discs' fault, and I found that out eventually.

On a related note, "throwing from hyzer" can actually lead to more OAT. The direction of the reachback tends to go more from back hip to front shoulder, rather than straight across, when throwing with hyzer. That motion, plus trying to smash a driver, can really easily lead to a monster wrist roll at release.

Not trying to be "that guy" on the internet that immediately jumps to OAT...but what you're describing sounds like the same OAT situation that I personally had to work through a couple years ago.