Maxing out @ 300ft...

[fanter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vD5GtDpc-A

Any suggestions you may have are very much appreciated.
Thanks.

Post in the "video critique" section of the forum and you'll probably get more responses.

 

[Jak3]

I didnt know you were supposed to keep your arm like jello during the pull. (as of a few days ago anyway)

So with only hip and shoulder rotation you can automatically position the disc to your right peck merely by the twisting motion/rotation right?

The only muscle really being used in the arm would be your shoulder keeping the arm on the right plane.

Am i on the right track with any of this?

 

[JR]

There are differing opinions. I know of long throwers in Finland that advocate strong arming right when the plant step lands. Many here have limp armed their longest throws. Limp until varying positions. Everyone is different so the best acceleration point for you in the short term needs to tested. I have often seen people write here that you don't need to move the arm to get to the right pec position. It's not entirely accurate for my anatomy dunno about others. For me leg and hip usage brings the front of the disc can inch left of the center of the body. From there on the arm needs to move. At how much of an effort may be form, speed and muscle power dependent. Physically stronger players here that advocate strong arming start their arm yank at or almost full power way earlier. Up to last season i have always lost D from strong arming. In all variations. I recently thought of my work where i lift up to 35 kilos of weights with the arm with very short motions. That may be the explanation why i have thrown farther with a later acceleration. My muscles may be conditioned for short burst of power with about 10 degree motion range. It may be a practice issue too which method gives you most distance.

The only way to know is to go to a field and try out all variations of arm pull starting points and each acceleration rate at each starting position with the same disc and getting good throws from each version and seeing which way lands the farthest. Then for the sake of security try out at least dozens of repetitions with the best variation and close version to either side of the starting position and acceleration rates.

 

[uNicedmeMan1]

Ok so I've been re-reading this thread because even though I'm not stuck at 300' (380' average with PDs) I think I'm still strong arming. This was confirmed through a recent video my buddy took of me where my shoulders were a bit ahead of my hips, I'm going to get him to take better vids of me when he gets back. My arm is also pretty sore after a day of ripping discs (this could be normal though as it is the beginning of the season).

Anyhow,
1- Is there a definitive way to know if you are strong arming?

2- Is there a drill to maximize the power of the legs/hips?

Sorry if I missed something that answered my questions earlier in the thread, they were most likely addressed in various posts.

 

[scoopa]

If the disc is not on your chest(in the pec region) before the start of the pull you are strong arming. The best drill to practice this is without a doubt the right pec drill.

The more I mess with things them more I realize the whole point of all of this is to have ALL the acceleration happen right before the disc exits. The last 12 inches or so - from the right pec on. The hips open. The shoulders open. The forearm swings out. Your foot pivots. Everything that contributes power to the throw happens like "bam, bam, bam". One after the other.

Go to the snap 2009 thread on about page 18 and look for the still-frames of Brad throwing. Look how soon he comes to the right pec. It's like ASAP.

I put this into good practice today and had a 400ft standstill throw that felt like an upshot. Just brought the disc to the right pec. Everything uncoiled. Effortless.

 

[Jak3]

There are differing opinions. I know of long throwers in Finland that advocate strong arming right when the plant step lands. Many here have limp armed their longest throws. Limp until varying positions. Everyone is different so the best acceleration point for you in the short term needs to tested. I have often seen people write here that you don't need to move the arm to get to the right pec position. It's not entirely accurate for my anatomy dunno about others. For me leg and hip usage brings the front of the disc can inch left of the center of the body. From there on the arm needs to move. At how much of an effort may be form, speed and muscle power dependent. Physically stronger players here that advocate strong arming start their arm yank at or almost full power way earlier. Up to last season i have always lost D from strong arming. In all variations. I recently thought of my work where i lift up to 35 kilos of weights with the arm with very short motions. That may be the explanation why i have thrown farther with a later acceleration. My muscles may be conditioned for short burst of power with about 10 degree motion range. It may be a practice issue too which method gives you most distance.

The only way to know is to go to a field and try out all variations of arm pull starting points and each acceleration rate at each starting position with the same disc and getting good throws from each version and seeing which way lands the farthest. Then for the sake of security try out at least dozens of repetitions with the best variation and close version to either side of the starting position and acceleration rates.

Thanks for this. Ill keep everyone posted what my results are with the jello arm approach.

 

[fasteddy8170]

I am definitely one of those guys who is strong-arming it. From a standstill, I can throw laser beams from 250 feet up to 290 feet, depending on what disc I use. They go straight as arrows at about 5 to 6 feet off the ground. They tend to tail just a bit at the end, of course, but usually very little. I can get them to hyzer and an-hyzer pretty easily as well, so I have pretty good control of them.

But, when I do any sort of run up, my distance only increases by like 10 to 20 feet and my control falls apart. I realize that to master anything takes practice, practice, practice and my technique I think is improving but there are a few things I still haven't figured out.

1. When I throw from a standstill, I really feel the "snap", to the point that after a while my fingers start to hurt. But, they never hurt when I do run-ups and I can't figure out why. It feels like I'm snapping them off but my fingers say otherwise. In fact, I would say there is something going on with my technique that is causing my grip to be less when I do run-ups. Any ideas?

2. I notice from watching some of the videos on YouTube that the distance throwers really put their plant foot out at an angle. They don't put it straight out in front of them. They step out at like a 45 degree angle and then let the disc fly. I see why they do this. But, it feels like I'm off-balance when I do that. It makes me want to fall off to the side, even though I don't think I'm leaning over that much. Any ideas?

3. No matter how hard I try, I can't get my back foot to come off the ground and swing around like many of the long-throwers. And when I try to "force" myself to do it my plant leg sends a pain right up into my lower back and the disc goes nowhere. Instead, my back leg turns and my toe stays on the ground. I know this is a weight transfer and timing thing but haven't figured it out. Moreover, I have a problem getting my plant to turn on the heel as I throw. It wants to stay planted with the toe pointed at a 45 degree angle and not pointed at the target. Any ideas?

I will post a video to show what I'm talking about.

 

[fasteddy8170]

http://www.youtube.com/user/vegaspua37?feature=mhum#p/a/u/0/pwLdd_qjRSY


This video goes with the preceding post. Just looking for some tips.

 

[ReDisculous]

you'd get a lot more responses if you put that video in the video critique section...

 

[racer93]

Just as an update (haven't been around or playing for several months), Bradley's and Blake's advice has stayed with me. I was still able to throw *well* past 400' with no practice or warm up with my teebirds and Buzzzes! What I found just by watching my form, I could really get big D with little effort. I did this by just accelerating with my hips until the disc got to my boobs and then pulling pretty hard (depending on the D I needed) from there out. I tell you, if you can focus on that and *only* that, you will throw A LOT farther than you have before. And do it more accurately as well!

Just my $0.02.

Daniel

 

[clard]

Oh my. I've been reading through lots of these technique threads, and I just got to this one this morning. I have seen the light! Not that I will be able to execute it right away or anything like that, but I just realized that I have not been whipping my arm around at all.

My throw has been all arm, and I haven't been using my body at all. I stood up in my cube and did that exercise where you let your arm hang pretty loose, pretend like you are holding a disc and then swing it all around like a whip with my legs/torso/shoulders and I saw what I have been doing wrong. Thanks again, guys. I have been actively discovering new things about throwing a disc every day thanks to this community.

 

[fanter]

2 -> 3 is all shoulder turn but you need to start your pull at the end of "3"

I pulled this from the diagram posted earlier in the thread. I wonder if someone could explain to me the direction of the pull? I've assumed it to be a "pull" with the tricep, or the punching of the elbow towards the basket, which BRINGS the disc to the pec (in my case, the left pec). I did some more reading around here tonight, and it seems like people talk about the pull as something that happens with the elbow already out, like in the "Right Pec Drill" video, and that the disc -> chest motion is mostly passive (a result of shoulders turning).

To restate, what is the direction of the pull? And what does the pulling?

 

[JR]

Didn't look at the pic busy.

Some say that the legs and the hips bring the disc to the right pec. Not for me unless i change the time when to twist the hips to the right of neutral. something that i'd like to try once i have the time for the next field practice session. I need to bring the disc from the left pec to the right pec by moving the elbow toward the target. You don't need to think which muscles do this it comes naturally when you just move the elbow forward.

Only once the disc is at the right pec do i start to turn the knees and torso from 90 degrees left of the target toward the target. Once the disc is at the right pec you concentrate on the quickest possible acceleration of the elbow chop. Then there's the wrist snap and disc pivot left.

 

[fanter]

I need to bring the disc from the left pec to the right pec by moving the elbow toward the target. You don't need to think which muscles do this it comes naturally when you just move the elbow forward.

Maybe I'm just lost in terminology. So the "pull" IS the motion to bring the disc to the pectoral nearest to the target. Got it. Thanks JR

 

[gretagun]

I hope I'm not causing more confusion, Fanter, but I understand the "pull" as referenced on here to be from or just past the right pec through the snap/hit, not from reachback to the pec area. I believe JR is saying that some people can get the disc from reachback to the right pec simply by hip/torso/shoulder roatation, where he and myself, have to kind of guide the disc to the right pec area by moving the elbow forward as we begin to rotate. That is not the "pull". It is not until I planted my right foot and my shoulders start opening towards the target that I really pull hard through the hit then follow through.

 

[garublador1]

I say the "pull" starts when you start rotating towards the target. So it's what brings the disc to your right pec (assuming you didn't start at your right pec). It makes the often repeated line, "Don't start the pull until after you've planted your foot," make the most sense. If you started with a full reach back, but got to the power zone before you planted your foot then you'll either griplock or lose all of the advantage of reaching back.

 

[fanter]

It is not until I planted my right foot and my shoulders start opening towards the target that I really pull hard through the hit then follow through.

The reason I have trouble with this is because once the disc is at my left pec (LHBH) I have zero room left to "pull," IF the pull is meant to come from the tricep. When the disc is at the pec nearest the target, my elbow is fully extended.

I do wait until after I have planted to open my shoulders.

 

[Moseley]

When the disc is at the pec nearest the target, my elbow is fully extended.

Wich is why the shoulders should lead lead the pull, by a tiny bit at least. I think what happens when I hit it best (this is all one motion to me in real time), is I lead the disc into the left pec area with the turn of my shoulders, then guide it to the right pec by extending the elbow further (shoulders stationary), shoulders start to turn towards the target. then the arm explodes out.
If my form slips I often don't "nudge" towards the target with my elbow and either lose snap and get a limp finish or I tend to release right. But it's a hard thing to practice because I tend to slip left and lose my rythm if I focus too much on it :x

 

[sidewinder22]

You are pulling early/opening the shoulders, perhaps not reaching back far enough. Think of pulling as two phase, inward and outward. The inward is from reachback, the shoulders go from 180 to nuetral(90 degrees) which brings the arm into the chest from kinetic reaction(not really actively pulling) and this is where you bring the elbow forward. Then the forceful outward pull, open shoulders, which opens elbow, then opens wrist.

 

[dehaas]

I'm starting to work through this thread and have told myself I was gonna take the time this summer to clean up my mechanics and learn how to throw properly. I was reading the first few pages and was trying out the hip rotation drills mentioned in the first few pages and had a question or two. With my hands at my side and performing the drill, I felt a bit of pressure or tension in the palms of my hands as they whipped around. It's been a while since I've taken a physics class, but I'm guessing that's the force being exerted on the end of my arm (hand) from the circular whipping motion? When I perform the drill with my elbows outward and my forearms hanging free the whipping feeling isn't as apparent, and I don't get the funny feeling in my hands. Are these results what I should be experiencing? It's a bit difficult trying to read the detailed instructions on the laptop, think about what I'm supposed to be doing, and give it a few tries in the living room. The diagrams and videos help tremendously. I can't wait to start building up and cleaning things up, I just wanted to make sure that I was getting on the right track from the get go.