Mentally broken after first tourney

[ff33]

i cant imagine being mad at finishing a few strokes over your norm aftter 3 months. if you played ever day for 30 months it wouldnt be a 100 rounds. what else in life have you been good at after 3 months?

i played basketball in leagues/school from 7/8 to a year and half in d3 college(which isnt a big thing, but it is extra credit for good HS players, and i dont think i was really good til I was 23(i was still in bigger leagues and lower end proams)

Ive played DG seriously for about a year, as in playing 3 or more times a week. i figure it will take me 5 years to really be truly comfortable on the DG course

 

[txmxer]

i cant imagine being mad at finishing a few strokes over your norm aftter 3 months. if you played ever day for 30 months it wouldnt be a 100 rounds. what else in life have you been good at after 3 months?

i played basketball in leagues/school from 7/8 to a year and half in d3 college(which isnt a big thing, but it is extra credit for good HS players, and i dont think i was really good til I was 23(i was still in bigger leagues and lower end proams)

Ive played DG seriously for about a year, as in playing 3 or more times a week. i figure it will take me 5 years to really be truly comfortable on the DG course

*3 months

Agreed. As I said, I played my first tourney on my home course after 12 months and stunk it up.

On the BBall side, I played for years. I was a decent player. But I can remember times/games where I was just off. No particular reason. If you compete, you will have those days.

 

[Rastnav]

i cant imagine being mad at finishing a few strokes over your norm aftter 3 months.

Not being critical, but it's worth pointing out that even though you can't imagine it, it doesn't make it false/impossible.

Everyone has their own unique personal circumstance. Some of us suffer from depression. Even effectively medicated I can walk out of just a field session struggling not to feel worthless. Am I worthless? No, but that's essentially beside the point. Knowing it's false isn't the same thing as feeling it is false. (Aside: CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy, has worked for many people in counteracting these negative self-narratives.)

Some coaches are abusive. They tell you that you're worthless. All of the time. They want to find the people that are unaffected or even motivated by it, and forget the rest. Identify the bad fits and get them off the team.

Being depressed is like walking around with that coach in your head, all of the time. And your head wants you off of your own team.

If you (not you in particular, just generally) aren't one of these people, you will struggle to understand. You can't empathize. You've never felt this way. You may not even wish to sympathize, identifying this as "weakness", "laziness", "lack of motivation", etc.

Such is life.

 

[hawgdriver]

Hey gabetjh,

Thanks for sharing. I played tags tonight, a weekly league thing at our local course, and this very issue became a topic.

I think one of the things we all crave when we play, whether casual or serious, is the brutal honesty of the scorecard. More than that, we want to 'measure up' against ourselves and the world.

Yeah, have fun and all that is also ideal, but it's more than that. And anyone who is all about having fun is still capable of getting bent when they clang a putt they felt was completely make-able to fall behind someone they think they could usually beat. Including themselves on another day, another round. It's good to always have that ability to laugh at the absurdity and arbitrary-ness of the whole thing in your hip pocket, but it's also good to 'measure up' and be happy for it.

So be grateful for that opportunity that you had. So many of them you won't actually 'measure up' but don't take it as a conclusive statement about you as a person, but rather as a fact of reality. Be happy that each next shot you throw is another such opportunity. In a tourney, be especially thankful to find yourself in a situation where you might care so much about such a funny little moment of execution.

The results will come and go as they do, accept it. Learn as much as you can and if you really want to get better, don't indulge overmuch in self-soothing and self-pity. Yeah, you screwed up the shot--look for the hidden message that will help you not make the same mistake. Seek to become more consistent with solid throws and solid decisions--find the mistakes instead of blaming the world. This can be extra difficult at times.

If you like it, keep practicing as you have. Results will absolutely follow. Maybe not on cue, but consistent application of your mind and body to the task will lead to consistent improvement.

The mental 'despair' (maybe too strong an expression) you describe is a gift. It means you care. Well, go get it.

 

[txmxer]

What I was trying to reference earlier was the term "regression to the mean".

Giving effective feedback is hard. In Thinking Fast and Slow, Daniel Kahneman1 describes a time when he was giving a lecture to Israeli fighter pilots about effective training practices. During his talk, Kahneman discussed the well-supported concept that rewarding good performance is more effective than punishing poor performance. After the talk, an incredulous senior instructor confronted Kahneman and said that criticising his trainee pilots for poor execution of aerial manoeuvers worked. The instructor had noticed that when he criticised trainees after they poorly executed a manoeuver, they almost always improved on their next attempt.

Kahneman saw a teaching opportunity. He drew a chalk target on the floor, had the officers turn their backs to the target and try to hit the target with two successive no-look coin throws. Those familiar with regression to the mean can guess what happened: officers who were far from the target on their first throw generally improved on the second throw; officers who were close to the target on their first throw generally did worse on their second throw. Kahneman showed how easy it is to conflate 'effective feedback'—either positive or negative—with regression to the mean.

Continued...

https://www.nature.com/articles/npjpcrm201618

 

[hawgdriver]

Tversky and Kahneman...so glad to see a disc golf forum mentioning their work.

Especially as a former fighter pilot with more than his share of brutal criticism after a sortee deserving of feedback.

I hadn't heard that story. It's sharp.

 

[txmxer]

Tversky and Kahneman...so glad to see a disc golf forum mentioning their work.

Especially as a former fighter pilot with more than his share of brutal criticism after a sortee deserving of feedback.

I hadn't heard that story. It's sharp.

Someone else referenced it previously and I thought it was really enlightening. I had to Google for it as I couldn't remember specifics. Got lucky. My Google-fu is strong.

 

[hawgdriver]

I played my first tourney this weekend in which I had registered in the pro division, someone told me that was where I belonged, it was three days, after the first day I was really discouraged and frustrated. Like... Really in the dumps. I shot a 863 rated round and see myself as a 950 player on the rise. Like OP, I'm pretty new to the sport, but really took to it and love the grind of incremental improvement.

So after I shot a round about 10 strokes worse than what I think would be a ho-hum round, I'm all up in my mentals. 'Broken' would be a bit too extreme because ultimately I reject that kind of punk mentality that just backs down from defeat, but man, I felt like I wanted to take my toys and go home. Why did I feel like I had something to prove? Why was my game kinda wonky compared to what I have observed as the evidence of my average throws?

I was DFL in my division after day 1.

And day 2.

Today was average. Finished 15/18 in the division. Woohoo.

But I'm stoked about it, and would enter in the exact same tourney again tomorrow, and do it every day if I could. I just love competition. I hate to lose, it hurts. Love to win, what a glow. I put so much weird pressure on myself to do these fancy things with circles. Like...why. Why couldn't I find that kind of loose flow that tends towards pure execution rather than hyper self-awareness? I wasn't remotely comfortable in this new environment until today. Felt like I was being judged but even typing this makes me feel very foolish.

I don't have a moral to the story, just wanted to say don't be a b*tch, keep at it. But yeah, sometimes it will get mad discouraging. I hope you come back with stories of your perseverance and triumph. Heck, I hope I do.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

I ........

And day 2.

Today was average. Finished 15/18 in the division. Woohoo.

But I'm stoked about it, and would enter in the exact same tourney again tomorrow, and do it every day if I could. I just love competition. I hate to lose, it hurts. Love to win, what a glow. I put so much weird pressure on myself to do these fancy things with circles. Like...why. Why couldn't I find that kind of loose flow that tends towards pure execution rather than hyper self-awareness? I wasn't remotely comfortable in this new environment until today. Felt like I was being judged but even typing this makes me feel very foolish.

I don't have a moral to the story, just wanted to say don't be a b*tch, keep at it. But yeah, sometimes it will get mad discouraging. I hope you come back with stories of your perseverance and triumph. Heck, I hope I do.

Haha the key is second day... you already felt the pressure first day and turtled your score.. Day 2 nothing to lose nothing to prove.. It takes the pressure off because you no longer think you can be first.

 

[Rastnav]

I don't have a moral to the story, just wanted to say don't be a b*tch, keep at it. But yeah, sometimes it will get mad discouraging. I hope you come back with stories of your perseverance and triumph. Heck, I hope I do.

Ultimately a destructive attitude and a destructive message. Maybe it works for you, but as you do not seem to actually experience what is in the OP, maybe take a step back.

This is much like telling someone with a partial tear of their Achilles' tendon to "stop being a bitch". Come to think of it, the other day I was talking with my PT buddy who was telling stories about the times he had stop coaches from paralyzing their players by putting them back in the game with cervical fractures because they "just had stingers". Ultimately this why medical staff have to be independent of players and coaches, because athletic performance is partially an exercise in ignoring what your body is telling you.

Yes, we need to be able to distinguish between injury and pain. But don't make the mistake of thinking there is no such thing as mental condition or injury. What the OP describes is something that needs treatment, rather than being ignored, or dismissed in ignorance.

 

[hawgdriver]

Ultimately a destructive attitude and a destructive message. Maybe it works for you, but as you do not seem to actually experience what is in the OP, maybe take a step back.

This is much like telling someone with a partial tear of their Achilles' tendon to "stop being a bitch". Come to think of it, the other day I was talking with my PT buddy who was telling stories about the times he had stop coaches from paralyzing their players by putting them back in the game with cervical fractures because they "just had stingers". Ultimately this why medical staff have to be independent of players and coaches, because athletic performance is partially an exercise in ignoring what your body is telling you.

Yes, we need to be able to distinguish between injury and pain. But don't make the mistake of thinking there is no such thing as mental condition or injury. What the OP describes is something that needs treatment, rather than being ignored, or dismissed in ignorance.

Great point. I was only speaking of my own internal dialogue, and sometimes tough love is what I need to hear. Sometimes it's absolutely the wrong message, and since I don't know the nuance of OP's mindset, it's a dangerous thing to say as 'advice'.

Reminds me of when I shattered my tibia playing soccer a few years ago, a scrimmage between our neighborhood over 40 league team and a random group of mostly non-english speaking hispanic players. The orthopedic surgeon told me it was bad, like what happened to Lindsay Vonn (the skier). At the time it happened, I just knew it was something bad. Didn't know how bad.

I was helped off the field and one of the hispanic dudes came over to help, told me I had to start walking on it right away. I tried.

Lol.

 

[Rastnav]

Great point. I was only speaking of my own internal dialogue, and sometimes tough love is what I need to hear. Sometimes it's absolutely the wrong message, and since I don't know the nuance of OP's mindset, it's a dangerous thing to say as 'advice'.

Reminds me of when I shattered my tibia playing soccer a few years ago, a scrimmage between our neighborhood over 40 league team and a random group of mostly non-english speaking hispanic players. The orthopedic surgeon told me it was bad, like what happened to Lindsay Vonn (the skier). At the time it happened, I just knew it was something bad. Didn't know how bad.

I was helped off the field and one of the hispanic dudes came over to help, told me I had to start walking on it right away. I tried.

Lol.

Ok, now my leg hurts. lol

Shatter and tibia are two words one does not like to hear next to each other.

 

[hawgdriver]

Ok, now my leg hurts. lol

Shatter and tibia are two words one does not like to hear next to each other.

He (when I tell the story I call him the Mexican witch doctor because he had a sort of shamanistic vibe to him) was really trying to help. When I looked at the x-ray and thought about it, I had to chuckle. My wife was out of town and I ended up driving myself to the hospital--I was happy I drove the Outback that day, and not the S60R with the stick.

I thought about your statement a bit today, and wanted to unwind my retraction in a certain way. I think there's value, administered appropriately, in mental tough love or setting high expectations. There is, I believe, a certain magic in saying 'no, this is the standard, and you must meet it'. I know I sound all boomerish, but it feels like there should be more of that kind of interpersonal expectation setting. I feel like it's a blessing in disguise when you have people that do that for you, sometimes.

There is also no room for buffoonish bluster, like General George Patton's moment of excoriating shell-shocked soldiers in WWII. It's actively harmful to belittle serious conditions.

Anyways, I was seriously down after day one this weekend. I had those thoughts--'forever done with disc golf' and 'why can I not command myself'. Despair. And I'm passionate about the game, so I felt it well out of proportion to the essential act of flinging circles at arbitrary targets with other humans.

I suppose I'm sharing because I hope it helps anyone reading.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Ha, have you ever seen the book "Sh*t my dad says" ? It's great, his dad is like a super leading doctor brain surgeon I think, anyhow he wrote a blog of stuff that came out of his dad's mouth, then parlayed it into a book and a short lived sitcom with William Shatner in it.. I seem to remember something like

"Why are you crying? Sure you dropped the ball but for God's sake it's a. Baseball game"

Other favourites like picking a college...
"Its your future it's not about which place is best to get laid"

All kinds of other "blunt advice" .

 

[txmxer]

Ha, have you ever seen the book "Sh*t my dad says" ? It's great, his dad is like a super leading doctor brain surgeon I think, anyhow he wrote a blog of stuff that came out of his dad's mouth, then parlayed it into a book and a short lived sitcom with William Shatner in it.. I seem to remember something like

"Why are you crying? Sure you dropped the ball but for God's sake it's a. Baseball game"

Other favourites like picking a college...
"Its your future it's not about which place is best to get laid"

All kinds of other "blunt advice" .

I believe it was an early Twitter hit.

 

[Rastnav]

I reject that kind of punk mentality
just wanted to say don't be a b*tch

I thought about your statement a bit today, and wanted to unwind my retraction in a certain way. I think there's value, administered appropriately, in mental tough love or setting high expectations. There is, I believe, a certain magic in saying 'no, this is the standard, and you must meet it'. I know I sound all boomerish, but it feels like there should be more of that kind of interpersonal expectation setting. I feel like it's a blessing in disguise when you have people that do that for you, sometimes.

Certainly, as I said before, certain things may work for you. If it works for you, then keep doing if for yourself.

But, I think it's important to note the difference in language that's being used here, and the subtle differences between them. In the first case, you are essentially doubling down on the negative thought. You feel like garbage after the first round and your self messaging is "Yeah, you are garbage if you don't complete the tournament". The self messaging is accepting the idea that not accomplishing certain things makes you a garbage human being.

Whereas the second could be simply a reminder of your own personal standards. There are some implications in the way it's phrased, but, depending on how one approaches it, it isn't intrinsically a judgement on self worth. If finishing is important to you, then do your best to accomplish it.

There was a period of a few years where I was doing triathlons. Just sprints, nothing extreme. I am not a natural triathlete, to put it mildly. There are reasons I didn't turn in good times. Nonetheless, I eventually signed up for my first open water swim at an event called the Kure Beach Double Sprint. You did an open swim out past the breakers, along the beach for 350M or so, and then back in. Then you left the beach, ran 2.5K to your bike, did a 10 K loop on the bike and then did the loop again, then ran back to the beach, and the finished by doing the same swim again. NBD to the serious triathletes, but a BFD to me.

Just getting out past the breakers was one of the tougher things I've done. Trying to swim in a pack of open water swimmers for the first time can't be explained, it can only be experienced. I thought I had lined up at the back of the pack, but got so tunnel focused that I didn't realize that 1/2 the field was in behind me. When I got to the buoy marker after swimming out past the breakers I made a noise of … some combination of relief and exhaustion. The safety kayak started paddling toward me. I eventually made it all the way through the swim, no one in my wave in sight, but I was totally gassed at that point.

About 1/2 mile into the run I stepped into one of those little depressions in asphalt that happen when the roadbed underneath isn't properly packed. My ankle started rolling, I started falling, and I went full cirque-de-soleil and combat rolled through it to come back on my feet. Someone in the next wave had caught up to me and was passing me and I'm not sure I've ever heard someone sound quite so surprised.

If I had anything left in the tank before that, I didn't after. It was just an exercise in stumbling at that point. But eventuallyI made it through the run, through the bike ride, through the run back to the beach. And I got back in the water and somehow made it through that too. Finally basically stumbling through the finish line on the beach where my friends were waiting. There wasn't anyone else on the course that I could see. Even the 73 year old woman finished with a better time than I did (although, to be fair, Sharon Roggenbuck is something of a triathalon legend).

I'm not sure I've ever been as deflated as I was when I finished. There was no sense of accomplishment. No relief at finishing. Nothing but a yawning emptiness of pain and misery. I had nothing left in my tank, including the capacity for happiness. You can tell me it "should" have made me feel positive, or you can tell me it "should" have motivated me to train harder next time, and I'll simply tell you that it didn't.

Was finishing worth it? Well, finishing is important to me, so yeah, probably it was. DFL is better than DNF is better than DNS.

But I haven't felt the urge to sign up for any tris since, and I believe that's all for the better.

 

[autocrosscrx]

I'm an over thinker and I tend to struggle with confidence. And I put a lot of pressure on myself. A lot of that pressure is that I have this fear that if I don't perform well, I won't be as well liked and people will phase me out of their life.

The tough love type advice is pretty much the worst advice you can give me. I really need someone to remind me of my plan and that I can and have executed it. Or just tell me that we can still grab beers afterwards no matter how things play out.

 

[2naphish]

suck it up, man up and move on....