Mold Consolidation - Replacement Disc Advice

[Kodachrome]

First off, let me say thanks! I've been lurking here for a long time; you guys helped me get started with dying and choosing nearly all of my discs. Now that I've settled on what ones I like, I need help consolidating a bit. I know you guys are all pretty solid, so let me know what you think!


Years playing/experience: 1 year of DG
Right/left-handed/ambidextrous: ambidextrous
Throwing Style: RHBH, LHFH, trying to learn LHBH
Golf Distance (avg/max*) for putter/mid/driver: Medium Xlink Ridge: 200'; fuse/pain: 240'; amp/river: 280-320'

Age: 24

Sex: M

Other sport proficiencies?: baseball (hence the LHFH), bowling, wrestling, football, etc

Additional Information: my distances are approximate as best as i can measure, based off of hole information i've found here on DGcoursereview.

What do you like/dislike about your current bag?: i hate relying on turnovers/anhyzers for shots that need to go right since i throw LHFH and RHBH. This isn't really a bag issue, though.

Specific areas of desired feedback: Help validate my disc choices; i'm trying to consolidate molds for a more consistent and comfortable throw as a beginner. i had problems with using too much shoulder and arm; i saw a video where a pro had someone actually walk backward and then turn to throw. i started this and now i have to say i feel a ton more power and snap (much farther than my max D before) being generated with little effort; i torque everything over though. the distances i gave are for my controlled shots where i use too much arm/shoulder to throw.

Immediate and long-term goals: I'd like to have more control, but obviously that's separate from the subject here. i know i've got good distance potential. i just need some input on the molds i'm choosing to narrow down so i can get comfy and settle in, get some consistency in the bag to help make form improvements easier, but still throw the discs that I enjoy. essentially some disc replacement/addition advice.


Bag:

Drivers

170 GL Havoc (9/10, stable/overstable) - not used much except long shots down steep elevation changes for low line drives.

175 Opto River, (9/10,) - straight drives with a little S, or hyzer shots. my river seems pretty stable compared to my old opto...

175 Neutron Amp (9/10) - upshot/turnover/flicker/

Mids:
176 Opto Fuse, (9/10) - main mid. covers pretty much everything i need, gives me easy D. very useful for me since i need turnover shots, but i can do hyzer and straight with it, too. just not long distance on a big rip, since i turn my stuff over when i throw too hard.

175 GL Pain (9/10) - Straight with fade, every time. Love it.

Putters:
175 original zero pure, (8/10) - main putting putter. Fits my hand so perfectly; never going to change it.

175 Medium X-Link Ridge (10/10) - Driving putter/wind putter

So here's what I'm thinking. I like lat 64 a lot. I love their glide and plastic and their molds fit my hand well. i don't know any other putter that fits my hand like a pure (no, not a swan or a spike either, though i did enjoy the summit a lot), so that's pretty much set in stone. Here's what I'd like my lineup to look like; i feel it sort of covers my bases. Tell me what you think, please. i'm learning LHBH, but my form is crap and i turn everything over. thinking of maybe a big OS disc to compensate for that on the course until it cleans up.

170 GL Havoc
175 opto river
160's GL river (replace the amp; not sure if that's going to give me the same feel, please let me know if you think it's a good replacement)

thinking about replacing the havoc with a pop-top overstable flow.

175 GL Pain
180 opto fuse (will the extra weight make a big difference? only 4 grams…)

I hate cores, by the way. they don't feel good in my hand. i figure a max weight fuse would cover both my bases; let me know if i'm wrong.

175 original zero pure (NOT changing)
175 opto pure (driving)
175 vp/sinus for windy days.

i dig me some vibram; can't damage it. don't know much about the sinus.

any input? basically some mold replacement/consolidation to keep things consistent. help a brotha out, and thanks a lot for reading my wall of text!

 

[5QU166Y]

Here's what I would do (changes in red):

Drivers

175 Opto River, (9/10,) - straight drives with a little S, or hyzer shots. my river seems pretty stable compared to my old opto...

175 Gold Line River - Turnover/understable

Mids:
176 Opto Fuse, (9/10) - main mid. covers pretty much everything i need, gives me easy D. very useful for me since i need turnover shots, but i can do hyzer and straight with it, too. just not long distance on a big rip, since i turn my stuff over when i throw too hard.

175 GL Pain (9/10) - Straight with fade, every time. Love it.

Putters:
175 original zero pure, (8/10) - main putting putter. Fits my hand so perfectly; never going to change it.

175 Opto Pure - Driving putter

I don't really think you need another midrange that badly, it just sounds like you should try to clean up your form a little. However, you may want to consider a Warship for stable shots. Also, the Mace is a cool disc, and Dynamic Discs is supposed to be coming out with a Buzzz-like disc.

As far as learning to throw LHBH, I would suggest buying a lighter X Comet and forcing yourself to learn how to throw it cleanly. It should also help with your LHFH and RHBH form.

Also, it doesn't really look like you have a need for the Havoc. Maybe you should consider a utility disc like a XXX?

 

[Kodachrome]

You're probably right; that's sort of where I was thinking of, just wasn't sure.


It's funny that you mention the comet - I was thinking something along those lines myself. It kinda sucks that my forehand and backhand are naturally reversed. I'll just have to head over to the analysis/critique forums once i find a way to record myself.

I believe you're right about the form issues; that's why I'd like to consolidate in the first place. I think it'll make it much easier to clean up form when I can focus on just a few discs rather than several. Thanks for the input! Glad to see you agree on the river and opto pure.

 

[Kodachrome]

well, lookee here. here we are, 6 months later and i've gone through more discs than i care to remember. so here are some thoughts. my bag right now:

--------------------------------------------------------------
PUTTERS

171 soft wiz -main driving putter, beaten into straight, lovely.

170 OG wiz - main putting putter; pretty firm, matte and tacky. amazing. chains, then drains.

175 OG wiz - more OS than all of my other wizards. useful for wind fighting on short drives.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MIDS

166g ESP comet - turnover/hyzerflip/finesse duty. standstill shots, uphill shots.

177+ ESP comet/174 z comet - both more stable. shots where i want to throw harder. ESP is better for grip in the winter. only one in the bag at a time depending on how cold it is.

Z wasp, weight unknown (traded) - wind fighter. haven't had to throw it, really.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Drivers

165g champ banshee - fun little point and shoot disc, stable enough to fight wind really well. OH rollers, tomahawks, thumbers. gets used by me often. i use those shots several times a round, a regular part of how i like to attack holes.

175 PPD - great workable disc. standstill drives, hyzerflips, controlled distance out to 400'.

168 SPD - somewhat OS. no turn, good fade. fights the wind. trying to season it.

175 CPD - OS. fights the wind quite well, good skips.

171 Star Destroyer - flat, some turn and some fade. gets me 450' on my best throws. actually hyzerflips really well, locks onto a laser line.

175 backstamp S.D - checked the PLH but haven't gotten to throw it yet; will be my OS distance driver.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thoughts

so, i'd like to experiment with a couple things. Was hoping for some input. right now my bag is doing me right. i know exactly what i'm going to throw. there is some consolidation i'd like to do, however, based on usage.

1) Swap the wasp for a vector (used to throw one; loved it even for windy days) to better complement the comet and add more workability to the OS side of things.

2) swap the banshee for a whippet. the whippet could probably do what the banshee does, what the wasp does, and i imagine it would probably cover a beefcake OS putter too. correct me if i'm wrong, but it just seems like it would based on what i've read.

3) ditch the CPD? i don't know. he's kind of the odd man out. i can't throw it 400' into a headwind anyway, but it could power down nicely to cover that OS fairway slot. with a bottom stamped star destroyer i feel like i'd get more headwind distance.



what do you think? any ideas or other suggestions?

 

[Kodachrome]

cannot edit - for the whippet, i meant cover what a beefcake mid would do, not what the wasp does. the vector will be doing that, obviously . . .

 

[elmexdela]

1. arent wasp and vector just about the same stability? there probably based off the same mold haha.

2. its your utility disc. trial and error see what works for you. personally i use a firebird and hornet respectably for my stupid OS slots. see if the whippet fits in your bag. take out your other discs and see if you miss them while you use your whippet. its about your confidence in disc selection to make the shot. throw what you feel most comfortable with.

3. some people like faster discs for headwinds because it can cut through the wind better. others like stupid overstable to straighten out fighting in the wind. the cpd isnt really an odd one out since it compliments your other pds. but it could be overlapping with your other destroyer depending on your purpose of use

 

[Kodachrome]

1. arent wasp and vector just about the same stability? there probably based off the same mold haha.

2. its your utility disc. trial and error see what works for you. personally i use a firebird and hornet respectably for my stupid OS slots. see if the whippet fits in your bag. take out your other discs and see if you miss them while you use your whippet. its about your confidence in disc selection to make the shot. throw what you feel most comfortable with.

3. some people like faster discs for headwinds because it can cut through the wind better. others like stupid overstable to straighten out fighting in the wind. the cpd isnt really an odd one out since it compliments your other pds. but it could be overlapping with your other destroyer depending on your purpose of use

1) i can see that about the wasp. for some reason i felt i could throw my vectors farther, but maybe i just need more time with the wasp.

2) good point, but do you think a whippet could reliably cover everything from banshee on down? or is it too fast, even at speed 6, to replace something like a zone.

3) yeah, the original intent was to go with the cpd as my distance wind fighter. i think i would rather disc up to cut through. it's tough for me to test this stuff now that we have snow on the ground. don't wanna lose anything.

 

[elmexdela]

1) i can see that about the wasp. for some reason i felt i could throw my vectors farther, but maybe i just need more time with the wasp.

2) good point, but do you think a whippet could reliably cover everything from banshee on down? or is it too fast, even at speed 6, to replace something like a zone.

3) yeah, the original intent was to go with the cpd as my distance wind fighter. i think i would rather disc up to cut through. it's tough for me to test this stuff now that we have snow on the ground. don't wanna lose anything.

1. then work that vector!

2. um i am not sure to be honest. would be kind of interesting. i use firebird, ti stalker, hornet and kcp aviar for my over stable. i have not thrown a whippet or a zone but from what i heard from the zoners is that there is no disc like it. its worth a shot, i dont really throw that tweener slot of speed 6 but im trying to think if my ace race 2012 disc was hella OS if that would work. i would say it wouldnt be unreasonable to try out.

3. i hear you i wanna try out a m4, and aviar driver but its like a whole different game throwing in the snow. so much distance shaved off and discs are more OS. its hard testing them at this time of year

 

[Buiscutboy]

I throw Vipers, which are pretty close to Whippets, and it's not hard to be accurate with them at just about any distance I throw. 50 feet out: Viper. 250 feet out: Viper. Well, I'd probably throw a Magnet on the 50 foot one, unless I was in a really bad spot.

I assume the Whippet would be even more controllable at whatever range, because of the lack of glide. Just watch out for skips.

 

[ed IV]

but do you think a whippet could reliably cover everything from banshee on down? or is it too fast, even at speed 6, to replace something like a zone.
I am currently throwing whippets and have taken out my gators for approach and utility duties at least for a while. So far so good, it is great for spike hyzers, chip flicks, short "S" shots and skips... oh and it thumbs for a mile if that is a factor

 

[Kodachrome]

I am currently throwing whippets and have taken out my gators for approach and utility duties at least for a while. So far so good, it is great for spike hyzers, chip flicks, short "S" shots and skips... oh and it thumbs for a mile if that is a factor

sounds good. i actually jumped the gun a little bit and picked up an E blaze today after reading it was similar to a whippet, if not quite as OS. i didn't want to have to wait for a champ cfr whippet!

 

[FriedInTheDesert]

You might like the Roc 3 to compliment your Comets. Did you ever try an opto Pure for driving and finesse shots? I preferred the Voodoo over the Wizard for putting but might try cycling Wizards for throwing. A new Wizard instead of a Rhyno and a beat one instead of the Pure.

 

[Kodachrome]

yep; opto pure was my baby for quite some time. considering going back, but a seasoned wizard seems to do the trick just as well! the deep disc wasn't as comfortable and didn't release well for me at first, but i'm getting used to it. the wizard doesn't fly quite as far as my pure could, but i've found that as my technique has improved i have reached the same distance with my wizard that i was hitting back when i used the pure, so it evens out.

 

[Uncle Matt]

yep; opto pure was my baby for quite some time. considering going back, but a seasoned wizard seems to do the trick just as well! the deep disc wasn't as comfortable and didn't release well for me at first, but i'm getting used to it. the wizard doesn't fly quite as far as my pure could, but i've found that as my technique has improved i have reached the same distance with my wizard that i was hitting back when i used the pure, so it evens out.

I agree man. A Pure can flat out bomb,but I've always liked my Wizards better. They just cycle better and once a Wizard gets to that sweet spot stage it stays there for a while.

I like Erasers,Evo's and RFF's the best. :thmbup:

 

[Kodachrome]

update. wizards are staying as i have, for the most part, figured out some grip issues with them. summit is in the bag. tangent is out, comets back in. PD is out, QOLF is in.

CURRENT BAG

1.3 QOLF - workhorse. straight with some fade. goes a long, long way.

QOLS - understable workhorse/fairway/distance. this disc is pretty darn neutral at low speed, standstill throws, hyzerflips like a dream and bombs for distance/uphill shots. not much fade to speak of.

SP tsunami - overstable windfighting distance. rollers. longer flex shots. the QOLF fights the wind well enough but when it gets nasty this will be coming out.


Champ Banshee - FH rollers, thumbers, tomahawks, short flex shots. this is basically my utility disc/windfighting midrange.


Midari - good mid, similar to a buzzz. can handle some wind.

X comet, 177+ - woodcarving. another good workhorse.

X comet, 167-169 - standstill long approaches, finesse shots, turnovers. zero fade to speak of, just a little UFO floating across the course to the basket.

Zone - to do what a zone does best.

wizard - putting/approach/driving, each in a different firmness.

summit - understable finesse approaches, pancake thumbers. short right turning drives.


-----------------------------

upcoming changes - i have a pinnacle ghost on its way to try out as a good somewhat beefy workhorse midrange for that straight-fade shot. if i like it i will be buying either a gravity or excel ghost to beat to straight. i'll keep the comets in there since i love them for standstill approaches and drives, too much glide and finesse to kick them out.

i'm thinking about getting a true fairway besides the banshee, too. perhaps beating in an icon rival or another patriot. probably the patriot. the QOLF powers down well.

 

[Kodachrome]

ALRIGHT!

we're almost there. so close i can feel it.

DRIVERS---------------------

SP Tsunami - OS windfighter? still don't know yet. haven't gotten to test it much in the wind.

1.3 QOLF - long flying workhorse, straight w/fade.

SOLF - line shaper, also, more max D and annies that flatten out. another workhorse of a different kind. right now i have a pair of 1.1's but i have to give them to a friend. D: i will be getting more though.

Patriot - kicks ass and takes names, very versatile line shaper in the woods, uphill driver. goes a long way too!

Banshee - we will talk about him in a second.


MIDS-----------------------------------

Gravity ghost - awesome. in the bag, no doubt about it. perfect stability; workhorse.

Pinnacle ghost - dunno yet, it isn't here.

167-169 Comet - standstill driving, finesse upshots, turnovers, tailwind bombs, whatever it wants to do. it's the comet and it's awesome.

177+ Comet - for when i want a little more stank on it. both of these will be used much in the woods.


PUTTERS -----------------------------

wizard in different plastics for driving/putting/approaching.

zone - duh.

summit - perfect for anny approaches that need to hold, finesse upshots, right turning drives, blah blah blah i said it already.




SO HERE IS MY DILEMMA.

i'm considering dropping the banshee and going back to the blaze. it's not as comfy in the hand, it's probably not a good roller disc and i know it doesn't weave through trees like the banshee does on a tomahawk. however i think it would be better to have as it is slower but still faster than my mids, a more of a mid/fairway distance which will give me a better option when the wind kicks up.


i am thinking about dropping the banshee and putting in the blaze, then just using a firebird for FH rollers, tomahawks, wind-fighting, etc instead. what do you guys think? i could probably then just take out the tsunami and roll with the OLF, then put in more of a true distance driver without much clutter between drivers.

 

[BirdieMachine]

No distance drivers? 15 discs total?

 

[tbird888]

Isn't the 1.2 SOLF supposed to be a beefcake? My best rounds in the wind (40 mph) were thrown with a CFR PD as the most overstable (and fastest) disc in my bag. My drives were maxing out at 350' at that time. If your form is good, you shouldn't "need" a mega overstable disc.

If you're still interested in mold consolidation, and your Tsunami isn't filling the role you're wanting the Firebird to fill, I would look at the Predator as a compromise between the two. It'll be overstable enough for the thumbers/FH rollers but will still provide decent wind-fighting ability without being a complete meathook.

Definitely agree with you on the Patriot. I tried a lot of molds in this role for my bag, and the Patriot was easily the standout.

 

[Kodachrome]

No distance drivers? 15 discs total?

pretty much. at some point i will be adding in a distance driver, but honestly right now i have nothing to gain by adding one. there are no holes on any of the courses i have played that would turn from par to birdies with an extra 50 feet except maybe two. the QOLF, SOLF and patriot all go very far. the patriot was the first disc i hit 400' with late this summer/fall, i am sure the QOLF will go that far too and the SOLF will go even farther.

the problem with distance drivers is that i don't know which ones to throw and i can't think of any situations where i would benefit much except on wide open holes. i was thinking about a destroyer and a rampage/world for absolute headwinds and max distance. but that is a lot of drivers and i don't know if i want to go that high. destroyers still feel controlled whereas when you get up to 13 you can really tell it is just a max D shot.

i was still thinking about putting a rival in there too. i could probably get away with an OS rival instead of a blaze or banshee, especially if i'm just using it for short windy fairway shots. some of them are straight up beef. then i'd have my OS and straight fairway covered with one mold. but that's still a lot of drivers. i could also just get a pro or echostar destroyer and go like this, which i actually like the thought of a lot more. here's a second idea.

Cannon/Rampage? maybe.


pro or echo destroyer (distance)
destroyer (workhorse, slightly OS)

QOLF
SOLF/MOLF (fresh, never thrown a MOLF so who knows)
SOLF/MOLF (beat, for rollers maybe?)

Firebird - for get out of trouble shots like tommy/thumbers, rollers, etc and hurricane winds. nice that the OLFs use the firebird wing.

Rival (icon, workhorse)
Patriot (icon, fresh, also a workhorse )

ghost (pinnacle)
ghost (gravity)

comet (heavy x)
comet (light x)

wizard (putting)
wizard (driving)
wizard (approach)

zone

summit





i'm overthinking this, but you kinda see where i'm coming from? i shot lights out today, absolutely wonderfully and i never came up short even without high speed drivers. i wouldn't know which ones to add. destroyers might not get me a significant amount of distance over my speed 9's right now and i don't lose strokes from distance anyway, i lose strokes from poor control.

*edit* i agree with you for the most part, T. i just like to disc up as well as OS when i face the wind; i get more reliable distance that way. the SP tsunami really does seem like a good windfighter but it hasn't had to fight any wind lately so i just don't know how it will fly. i do know it kicks ass at rolling; i used to roll it to get out of trouble when i used it this summer. i'm going back to a lot of molds and finding the best of what i tried as well as some new. people are saying the 1.3 QOLF is a beefcake, but i have found it to be exactly identical to my favorite red SPDs. i am throwing 1.1 SOLFs that have a decent amount of turn to them, but not too much. the QOLFs i have are straight for a long way and a decent fade. it fights the wind but you will have to work with it. i do not find the QOLFs i have to be beefy whatsoever. simply reliable and long.

 

[Kodachrome]

i'm really just trying to streamline as much as possible. i see nothing wrong with the SP tsunami, i just figured a firebird could cover the tsunami's role as well as duties where the beefy rival wouldn't be enough and i would want a banshee or something, ie spike hyzers into headwinds and also be used for get-out-of trouble stuff, whereas a beefy pinnacle rival could cover short windy fairway duties the blaze/banshee might have taken on. an icon could be my teebird, the patriot could be my leopard. then i'd be consolidating molds, getting things consistent.

i think about this stuff too much.

i'm happy with my putters, i'm happy with my mids. i feel confident, i feel ready for the tournaments i signed up for. i'm in love with the patriot, the OLF, and i'm *content* with the tsunami, everything else. i just feel it could be set up *better* somehow.