Most Overrated Mid-West Courses?

[scarpfish]

holy smokes! when it's dry and mowed/trimmed up nice, Waterworks is the cream of the crop. even on a rough day it's always 5/5 to me.

Are you on crack? You should be banished to forever play the courses of Chicago land for calling Water Works overrated! You could take 20 of our best courses, combine the best aspects from all those courses together, and you would still not have a dg course that compared to Water Works. You are a bit spoiled living in such a cool dg area as KC. REPENT!!

I'm sure when one has played nothing but garden variety courses, Water Works looks like Shangri-la. When you've gotten around a bit and played quality courses elsewhere, the shine is going to come off of it a bit. As far as I'm concerned, its barely the best course in KC anymore. I'd almost pick Cliff Drive over it.

And why when you pronounce something "overrated", people imply that you think it sucks? WW is definitely a Top 100 course. I just don't think its a Top 30 course as the current ratings suggest.

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

I agree with WW being overrated, I definitely enjoyed my experience there, but I agree - not a top 30 course.

I also agree with Bryant being overrated, it's a beautiful course, a lot of work has been put into it - but that doesn't make up for what it lacks.

 

[AdamE]

Parkside at the UW Kenosha campus is quite overrated in my book. It is rated at 3.79 by all and very surprisingly at 3.92 by "trusted" reviewers. While there are a few good holes there, it is pretty much a bland course. I graded it an 86 (a B grade) which equates to a 3.0 disc......not close to the level of a 4.0 which is basically what it is rated at.

I agree, I played it once with Harr. Fun course, I enjoyed it but it's average so I'd probably rate it a 3, no more than 3.5.

 

[superberry]

...and that's why most don't approve of your ratings.

..Parkside (original) is without a doubt a super strong 3.5 to a soft 4.0

Parkside original (~ year 2000-2004 does not exist). The new ones are far less than stellar with alomost no terrain which would ever make them above a 3.5 at the VERY best.

 

[superberry]

I agree with WW being overrated, I definitely enjoyed my experience there, but I agree - not a top 30 course.

I also agree with Bryant being overrated, it's a beautiful course, a lot of work has been put into it - but that doesn't make up for what it lacks.

Water works is over rated. It is the same thing over and over again - open elevation. Granted most parks never see elevation like that, which is why the uninformed masses love it. But, it's terrain simply does not offer anything close to complete variety and balance.

Bryant Lake, you will see, I skipped. I do not have it on my played list. I stopped by, and decided not to pay to play it. It simply did not offer the variety and balance I wanted in a $7 round (I think). I moved on to play Kaposia with the little time I had available.

 

[tomjulio]

now let's talk Brown Deer, which I feel is a completely over-rated course(one that I have played and have rated). Yes, hard and challenging...other than that...eh... 3.5 tops.

 

[optidiscic]

Forked Run in OHIO defintely overrated given whats available nationally.

 

[harr0140]

Bryant Lake is superbly plain and mediocre!

I would have to say Bryant Lake is way overrated. I like Kaposia about 1000 times more and it's rated way lower than Bryant Lake, as well as a bunch of other courses. So I suppose I think Bryant Lake is overrated, Kaposia way underrated, as well as Blue Ribbon is underrated.

I think the reason is the course has some of the best maintenance I have ever seen. It has the most invested in the course too like infrastructure. But as a course it is mediocre. Kaposia is supremely awesome, but undermaintained. That is my $ .02 and I am sticking to it!

 

[harr0140]

Parkside at the UW Kenosha campus is quite overrated in my book. It is rated at 3.79 by all and very surprisingly at 3.92 by "trusted" reviewers. While there are a few good holes there, it is pretty much a bland course. I graded it an 86 (a B grade) which equates to a 3.0 disc......not close to the level of a 4.0 which is basically what it is rated at.

The course has changed a lot since its inception apparently so that may be a real explanation.

 

[harr0140]

Actually, at 86 it is right next to..........87 (you're a math teacher right? ). And an 87 is a 3.5. So, we have it rated exactly the same.

By this logic, tomjulio thinks you should have scads of :thmbdown:'s. But hey, soon more people will be loving me than hating me at the rate things are going.

Don't confuse "helpful" with loving you and "unhelpful" as hating you, it might confuse your mind!

 

[Dave242]

now let's talk Brown Deer, which I feel is a completely over-rated course(one that I have played and have rated). Yes, hard and challenging...other than that...eh... 3.5 tops.

You are entitled to your opinion......but my opinion is that you are wrong. :gross:

In all seriousness, in reading your review, you had it rated at 4.0....and your comments basically say you derated it because of boredom and that tunnel shots are not your thing.

I see from your ratings list that you have different tastes than me in that the order of things is quite different. That is fine......and it is the beauty of this site (and also a shortcoming since there is currently no way to navigate around that).

I would argue that Brown Deer is fantastic at challenging Blue level players to plan shots and execute them well. There is a wide variety of shots required to score well. The tunnels are fair as far as their length:width ratio (1 long and 18 long are exceptions IMO as they are too long for their width....and they taper down at the end. Maybe 4 Long's pinch point is too narrow too.) Tunnel shots are the ultimate test of shot shaping skills and punish errors severely (but naturally).....which is what golf should be all about.

I am not a big fan of 5 Long as the guardian trees introduce too much luck into the game (I've asked Mark Peterson about this and he disagrees). 14 is a goofy shape - Mark says that he agrees but was forced by a park person to have the where it is now. That person is gone and so the pad is moving to give a less random path to the basket - a flight path that the disc can actually fly along.

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

I think the reason is the course has some of the best maintenance I have ever seen. It has the most invested in the course too like infrastructure. But as a course it is mediocre. Kaposia is supremely awesome, but undermaintained. That is my $ .02 and I am sticking to it!

Kaposia is undergoing renovation, I don't know what it entails, but dude at the proshop told me to come back in 3 months and then review it - I'll be back in September.

 

[harr0140]

You are entitled to your opinion......but my opinion is that you are wrong. :gross:

In all seriousness, in reading your review, you had it rated at 4.0....and your comments basically say you derated it because of boredom and that tunnel shots are not your thing.

I see from your ratings list that you have different tastes than me in that the order of things is quite different. That is fine......and it is the beauty of this site (and also a shortcoming since there is currently no way to navigate around that).

I would argue that Brown Deer is fantastic at challenging Blue level players to plan shots and execute them well. There is a wide variety of shots required to score well. The tunnels are fair as far as their length:width ratio (1 long and 18 long are exceptions IMO as they are too long for their width....and they taper down at the end. Maybe 4 Long's pinch point is too narrow too.) Tunnel shots are the ultimate test of shot shaping skills and punish errors severely (but naturally).....which is what golf should be all about.

I am not a big fan of 5 Long as the guardian trees introduce too much luck into the game (I've asked Mark Peterson about this and he disagrees). 14 is a goofy shape - Mark says that he agrees but was forced by a park person to have the where it is now. That person is gone and so the pad is moving to give a less random path to the basket - a flight path that the disc can actually fly along.

That is one of the reviews I wrote early on and may need to revisit it and rerate it. I consider it a 4 as I do with Dretzka, but in my review I even said it was borderline 4.5 which I guess I cannot agree with anymore, so I may need to update the review. It is as punishing as it is fun and I have improved a lot from when I reiewed the course . . . so that is increasingly becoming a con for the course. Early on I sucked so of course it was punishing!

 

[simplepmart]

I'm sure when one has played nothing but garden variety courses, Water Works looks like Shangri-la. When you've gotten around a bit and played quality courses elsewhere, the shine is going to come off of it a bit. As far as I'm concerned, its barely the best course in KC anymore. I'd almost pick Cliff Drive over it.

And why when you pronounce something "overrated", people imply that you think it sucks? WW is definitely a Top 100 course. I just don't think its a Top 30 course as the current ratings suggest.

I played WW the day after last years World Championships so maybe they just had it all spruced up for the big dawgs that were in town. Also played Cliff Drive. If the last half of the course was as interesting and fun as the first half of the course i would agree. The majority of the back half was just open field bombs...which i dominate at so it was boring.

I would love to hear what courses you would say are better than WW in the Mid-West, cuz my buddies and I are taking a 5 day road trip next month and i could definitely use some suggestions for killer courses. Anything in southern Illinois, Missouri, Iowa, and Kansas would be in our range.

 

[Dave242]

in my review I even said it was borderline 4.5 which I guess I cannot agree with anymore, so I may need to update the review. It is as punishing as it is fun and I have improved a lot from when I reiewed the course . . . so that is increasingly becoming a con for the course. Early on I sucked so of course it was punishing!

I do not get what you are saying. What I hear you saying is that when you were not as good getting punished by a hard course was good, but now that you are more skillful, harder courses are not as good for you.

When I go to Brown Deer after playing a while in IL (and even Dretzka - on the non-tunnel holes), I am excited to get a 5 on a par 3 (or even a 4). I am not happy with myself for screwing up, but I am thrilled that the course has teeth and will differentiate between me screwing up and executing well.

In these other courses I can almost always recover for par no matter how bad I screw up. Example: this weekend while exploring a ton of courses, I must have been stiff and so when I got out of the car, stepped up to the pad on hole 1, I grip-locked so bad I ripped my 250' drive almost 90 degrees off course (70 degrees is more like it). Horrible, horrible error - like none I remember making. After laughing my ass off and finding my drive, I proceeded to park my approach and save par. Had I been only 5-10 degrees off, I would have gotten the same score.

 

[tallpaul]

I do believe you only found one of those grip lock drives Dave.

 

[tomjulio]

You are entitled to your opinion......but my opinion is that you are wrong. :gross:

In all seriousness, in reading your review, you had it rated at 4.0....and your comments basically say you derated it because of boredom and that tunnel shots are not your thing.

I see from your ratings list that you have different tastes than me in that the order of things is quite different. That is fine......and it is the beauty of this site (and also a shortcoming since there is currently no way to navigate around that).

I would argue that Brown Deer is fantastic at challenging Blue level players to plan shots and execute them well. There is a wide variety of shots required to score well. The tunnels are fair as far as their length:width ratio (1 long and 18 long are exceptions IMO as they are too long for their width....and they taper down at the end. Maybe 4 Long's pinch point is too narrow too.) Tunnel shots are the ultimate test of shot shaping skills and punish errors severely (but naturally).....which is what golf should be all about.

I am not a big fan of 5 Long as the guardian trees introduce too much luck into the game (I've asked Mark Peterson about this and he disagrees). 14 is a goofy shape - Mark says that he agrees but was forced by a park person to have the where it is now. That person is gone and so the pad is moving to give a less random path to the basket - a flight path that the disc can actually fly along.

Solid 3.5
-signage sucks. course shape and maintenance, eh. Challenging, indeed. Hell, I play in the open leagues there every Thursday.

5 long is brilliant...as it is a regular birdy hole for me. A true understanding of a floating hyzer shot with nice glide, or skip at the end.

14 long is just weird.

...as for not being my type of course, it sort of is. I know no one who can consistently conquer it...that to makes a fun, challenging course..but still WAY too many cons from raising it in ratings beyond a 3.5

 

[BucketBonanza]

have to agree with julio that the Ludington courses would make for a great major. played a recent host, Oshtemo in kzoo today, and don't think it can hold a candle to those babies as far as tournament worthy. but what do i know i am from economic downturned muskegon?

 

[Clue]

I played WW the day after last years World Championships so maybe they just had it all spruced up for the big dawgs that were in town. Also played Cliff Drive. If the last half of the course was as interesting and fun as the first half of the course i would agree. The majority of the back half was just open field bombs...which i dominate at so it was boring.

I would love to hear what courses you would say are better than WW in the Mid-West, cuz my buddies and I are taking a 5 day road trip next month and i could definitely use some suggestions for killer courses. Anything in southern Illinois, Missouri, Iowa, and Kansas would be in our range.

Waterworks is a pitch and putt in disguise. I think it's a great par 54 course, but it's not a great *golf* course. I much prefer a course in the par 63 range. If only we could take the front nine at Cliff and add it to the front nine at Blue Valley. That would be a great golf course because those two back nines get a little boring.

Kansas City has some great golf, but if I had 5 days I would play I-80 through Iowa. Westlake and Middle in the Quad Cities are 2 of my top 10. Camden II is another great course, and you might as well play Camden I while you're there. I haven't played it in years, but it's a fun little course. There's a 12 hole course there called Devil's Glen that is pretty unique as well. It's almost like a woodsy Water Works (KC) with a couple beautiful water holes as well.

Then skip over to Iowa City. Play Turkey Creek in the morning because it's packed by afternoon. Sugarbottom is just up the road and is one of my favorite courses. Both of these are a little short but have a ton of fun shots. Peninsula is the best course in Iowa City, but I have to warn you if it's not mowed it won't be very fun.

On your way to Des Moines there are 3 courses in small towns that are really fun, Grinnell, Newton, and Colfax. All are 18 holes and are good enough that the Des Moines players regularly travel to them. Then in Des Moines the big 4 are Big Creek, Walnut, Ewing, and Pickard. These are all championship courses used in '04 Worlds and NT's since then. If you like Water Works then you'll definitely like Grandview in Des Moines. It's a similar size course in a beautiful park and is probably the most popular course in Des Moines. If that doesn't fill your 5 days you could go one of two directions, north to Ames/Boone or south to Lamoni toward Kansas City. Lamoni has 2 pretty big courses. I'm not a huge fan of J&B, but there are lots of people who think it's the best course in the state. The Graceland University Course is a long and beautiful course designed by Julianna Korver that doesn't get the hype it deserves.

I've played in Illinois, Kansas, and Missouri and there are some good courses, but if you gave me 2 weeks to play any combination of courses in these 4 states, I doubt I'd leave Iowa. Again, KC is right there and I enjoy WW, Swope, Rosedale, Cliff, Blue Valley (I haven't played 3-4 of their newer courses that sound like they're pretty good as well), but I think you'll be blown away by the combination of courses I listed above.

 

[kcbill]

our newest course, young park in blue springs, mo, is well maintained and definitely challenging and worth your time if you're in the kc area. the fairways are low and tight and water comes into play on 5 or 6 holes. the record is 50 on a par 54.

i wouldn't leave iowa just to play it but if you're in kc, it's worth your time. it's right off I-70.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=3956