PMantle
* Ace Member *
But are you ever whelmed?
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Movement in top 10
- Thread starter Mando
- Start date
But are you ever whelmed?
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2009
- Messages
- 15,786
I get boggled much more than I get whelmed.
I find I'm gruntled as long as I'm whelmed but not boggled.
Being overwhelmed + boggled leads to being disgruntled.
* realizes DiscGruntled would make a great screen name*
Lake Claiborne dropped from 10th to 14th... Vision Quest is back in the Top Ten.
As I've said elsewhere, I totally agree. It's a great course for sure in a state lacking definitive courses and wooded courses with lots of elevation in particular, but it is not a special course IMHO. The design is very tame, especially relative to the awesome potential of the land, and overall it is pretty one note. It reminds me of Fairfield Park in that it's a great course that gets a rating bump not because of local bias so much as lack of great reference points in the area: there isn't really anything like Claiborne in the region, and its ratings get inflated because of it. There are many courses in the northeast like Orange Crush that do dramatic wooded golf much, much better than it, but up there they're spoiled.
In other news here in New Orleans, Houck has a course that is supposed to open in the next couple of months. I'm excessively excited about it. Sounds like they've worked with an engineering firm to improve drainage, which will be a great change of pace from the marshes that the other local courses turn into for a week after any appreciable rain. On Facebook he commented that the course has some of his favorite holes he's ever designed despite the lack of elevation; I can't wait to see them myself!
A top ten course means traffic, and that's pretty much it. Without the top 25, I wouldn't know about a lot of courses I have played. (Harmon Hills, Idlewild, Sugaree, etc.) If I were a private course on this site, and the top ten is how you get noticed, then a poor rating hurts traffic, because then someone would have to dig deeper to find it. I know you can sort through private courses in the top, so this isn't important...
What I see as the problem with the top course list us the fallacies. As someone who has played a few of them, I know there are better courses than the ones at the top. I don't know how this is fixed, because it just keeps growing, but the only way for someone to find a course even rated 4.5 you have to do more than click that button, which is too much for some people.
What I see as the problem with the top course list us the fallacies. As someone who has played a few of them, I know there are better courses than the ones at the top. I don't know how this is fixed, because it just keeps growing, but the only way for someone to find a course even rated 4.5 you have to do more than click that button, which is too much for some people.
Great courses are know with or without a questionable top 10 (or top 25) list.
David and Stoney Hills is known by plenty big-timer players and it's not scratching the top 25 list. Spencer has two epic courses at Paw Paw (Woodshed & Whippin' Post). Neither is near the top 25 yet they garner plenty of attention. I'd take any of those 3 courses over the majority of courses on this site's top 25 list.
Surely you can't agree that Lake Claiborne is "not even in the top 5" in the state? What even comes close to it?
You might want to check Houck's update on Parc Des Families while you're at it. If you think Laf or CP are marshes, wait till you see PDF.
I'm not sure how you can know there are better courses. You can know that there are courses you like more, or are better by criteria that you select. But whatever else we can say about the Top 10 or Top 25, by definition there are a good number of people who think that those courses are among the very best.
Ah, my bad. I glossed over that part as I was rushing out the door. I stridently consider Claiborne to be overrated, but yes, it's certainly one of the best courses in Louisiana that I've played.
When it comes to what competes with it: I think Flanacher remains underrated and is much more diverse and interesting while being on wholly inferior land (especially considering the lack of elevation) and sporting awkward design at points, and LHC probably falls in a similar category of great design maximizing land limitations. And with no interest in pandering, several of my favorite Louisiana holes are actually at Bogue Chitto, though grooming is of course a con for that particular course. All in all I would consider LHC the best Louisiana course that I've played, with Claiborne on the best land of any of them, but it's kind of a toss up. I could make an argument for Flanacher.
Thanks. As another private course owner pointed out, landing on the Top 10 list might be a blessing......or a curse. Unless the owner is trying to make as much money as possible with it.
A Stoney Hill sidebar: the course has been constantly changing and growing. In 2013 we built 3 new holes and debuted a 24-hole layout (1 of 3 layouts), and it has been a popular option. If we were to ask Tim to remove reviews before that point, we'd be at 4.71. Still wouldn't be on the list, or knocking on the door, because being remote and lightly played, we'd only have 13 reviews. None of which matters, because we're just sharing it, not looking for fame or fortune.
Meanwhile, the Top 10 list has reached the point of quibbling over a few hundredths of a rating point. For all practical purposes, the Top 25 is a 25-way tie; they're all great, at least to a lot of people.
Speaking of unbelievably overrated courses....
It's interesting that you seem to favor design strongly over all else. I think Avery did a good job with LHC, and agree with you that Flanacher is splendid except for 3-5 dumb holes. So it puzzles me that we agree on those two but you think Claiborne's design is lackluster while I think it's way better than both of those. LHC would be better if it was in a nicer part of town and had clean water instead of the possibly hepatitis-infested ooze flowing through it. So I guess I do base my reviews more on overall qualities than just design.
Curious what holes you like best at Bogue Chitto? I am trying to talk that park into expanding to 18 and will probably have to split the par 5's into 2 or 3, 4 shorter holes each if that happens, since I doubt the footprint will be allowed to expand much. I can't stand hole 6 (the 1000 footer) and think I can get 4 better shorter holes out of that one alone, and would like to keep 5 and 8 the way they are because I think they're great.
You are right, I don't know, but I feel like I have a pretty good sense of the difference between a good course and a great one. David, I have heard so many great things about Stoney Hill through this site, and I can't wait to play it sometime in the future. (Maybe spring?) However, if you are someone who only uses this site every once in a while, you might not be able to figure out those hidden gems persay, although this is speculation. I can't make up my mind for anybody else. There isn't a bad course on the top 25, but from everything I've read on this thread, someone is always going to disagree with this.
I know enough about you to know you have very good taste in disc golf courses, and I agree with most all of your points, including this one. Although, Paw Paw is a top 10 "Destination" on the site, which is a minor point. I didn't mean to come off as stupid, although my post did have quite a few inadequacies.
-A course does not need to be in the top 25 to be a good course, that is for certain. Everybody knows that, right?
PMantle
* Ace Member *
This is confusing to me. I mean, neither question makes any sense. Both Buhlow courses, Ford, Bistineau, PA Davis, Healthcare Connections...., both Lazarre courses and Highland are all better. I hate Flanacher, but I have to admit it's better even though I'd rather play Claiborne.
Both Lazarre courses? Wow. I can't comment on the comparison because I haven't played Lake Claiborne. But I have played way too many rounds at The LZ. Hard to imagine the courses with the most elevation in the state are worse than Lazarre. I have got to make it to claiborne in the next month.
Sorry, I was a little terse and testy. I disagree anytime someone suggests the site's ratings are wrong; they are a consensus. Certainly, I've had the experience of playing a highly-rated course and thinking to myself, "I don't get it." Obviously, a lot of people think more of that course than I do, but they're not wrong---just don't share the same taste. But I understand the feeling of thinking, say, Ashe County is way better than Langley Pond.....what are the reviewers thinking?
PMantle
* Ace Member *
I love Lazarre. Cannot wait for the Turkey Shoot.
The courses I've played are Ford and Bistineau from the list above. I personally think Claiborne Whitetail is vastly superior to both of them. Ford and Bistineau are mostly wide open courses that aren't near as much a test of disc golfing skill as either of the Claiborne courses. Ford isn't even close.
Different strokes I suppose.
You hit on a key word: consensus.
This site alone has 85K members. The PDGA is approaching 100K. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people who play disc golf. But, golly, if the 22nd review for Langley Pond is only a 4.0, there's outrage.
