[MVP] MVP Disc Sports (Official Thread) (Part V)

[discerdoo]

Thinking of driving 2 hours to play a space race event so I can get an eclipse Hex. Maybe grab a couple if folks wanna sell or trade. It doesn't start until 6:30 so maybe I can do a combo fishing/discing trip.

Anybody get their hands on an eclipse Hex yet?

 

[mas30066]

What has the flight been like for you relative to neutron hex's? Friggin love the Hex and I would love to have an excuse to buy more, lol.

I found the original to be a little twitchy. This one's a longer Proxy. Draw a line. Let it go. Watch it straight. Mine's 176, and the 10g rule's definitely in play: it has the forward momentum of a disc noticeably above max weight and tracks beautifully.

 

[zendragon]

Thinking of driving 2 hours to play a space race event so I can get an eclipse Hex. Maybe grab a couple if folks wanna sell or trade. It doesn't start until 6:30 so maybe I can do a combo fishing/discing trip.

Anybody get their hands on an eclipse Hex yet?

I was thinking of doing the same thing. Only an hour and a half instead of 2 hours. I think with gas, and time away from home, and having to put my hands on a stupid Pilot, it's probably not worth it though. Might see if a friend of mine who lives in DFW is playing the one next Friday and can pick one up for me.

It would be great if we knew the Hex would get stock glow soon.

 

[gwsmallwood]

I found the original to be a little twitchy. This one's a longer Proxy. Draw a line. Let it go. Watch it straight. Mine's 176, and the 10g rule's definitely in play: it has the forward momentum of a disc noticeably above max weight and tracks beautifully.

What is this 10g rule you speak of?

 

[mas30066]

What is this 10g rule you speak of?

Generally speaking, the Fission stuff tends to act about 10g heavier in terms of stability because of the greater mass difference between the flight plate and the wing than the comparable neutron disc with a denser center. I've read it on the internet but I've also found it be a pretty accurate statement in practice.

 

[ray1970]

Generally speaking, the Fission stuff tends to act about 10g heavier in terms of stability because of the greater mass difference between the flight plate and the wing than the comparable neutron disc with a denser center. I've read it on the internet but I've also found it be a pretty accurate statement in practice.

Might explain why I didn't click with my 174g fission Crave. I guess it's like I'm hucking a 184g fairway driver?

 

[mas30066]

Might explain why I didn't click with my 174g fission Crave. I guess it's like I'm hucking a 184g fairway driver?

Were you finding it to fade a little quicker/stronger or maybe just not hold the line through the middle of the flight like you anticipated? If so, then yes, I think you're on it. The inverse is also true though: you can achieve a similar result to your target with less strain by throwing something at 164 that won't necessarily behave understable light.

 

[ray1970]

Were you finding it to fade a little quicker/stronger or maybe just not hold the line through the middle of the flight like you anticipated?

Pretty much nailed it. I'm used to max weight cosmic neutrons and the internet hype led me to believe I would get a flight that pushed straighter longer and gave me a little more distance. What I mostly noticed was my fission seemed to run out of steam and wanted to get to the ground sooner. It was coming up a solid fifteen or twenty feet shorter on holes where I would typically throw a cosmic neutron.

 

[zendragon]

Pretty much nailed it. I'm used to max weight cosmic neutrons and the internet hype led me to believe I would get a flight that pushed straighter longer and gave me a little more distance. What I mostly noticed was my fission seemed to run out of steam and wanted to get to the ground sooner. It was coming up a solid fifteen or twenty feet shorter on holes where I would typically throw a cosmic neutron.

I had almost identical results. Everyone was saying a max weight fission crave would fly closest to a patent pending Crave, so I tried one out. It was close ish in stability, but still not quite, but also didn't nearly feel like it had the glide or forward push of the patent pending Craves. I also have a 164 fission Crave that gets normal distance, but it's just not the stability I wanted out of that spot in my bag.

Patent pending Craves were truly magical. I'm extremely disappointed with MVP for not keeping them that way. I know people like the new flight of the Craves, but they're basically what the Inspire was. MVP would have done better to keep both the Inspire and Crave in production and make this new mold of Crave into the Inspire, then figure out how to make the Crave the same as the patent pending ones with their move to in-house production.

Sorry, I got off on a rant.

 

[The Shide]

What is a "patent pending Crave?" I've been throwing Craves for a few years now, and this is the first time I've seen that term.

 

[zendragon]

What is a "patent pending Crave?" I've been throwing Craves for a few years now, and this is the first time I've seen that term.

MVP had a patent pending for their overmold technology for about the first 8-10 years of them being a company. I don't remember the exact timing, but, for the entirety of that time, they outsourced their molds to another company. The molds all said "patent pending" around the sprue on the underside of the disc.

Anyway, when the patent was approved they also happened to move their production in-house, no longer outsourcing. They bought brand new machines for their molds that were incompatible with the old molds used in the machines by the outsourcers. So they "reconditioned" their molds to fit the new machines. Mostly minor changes were made, and the intent was not to change the discs flights in most cases, however there were a few exceptions. According to MVP, several discs had changed from their initial intended flight, and their reconditioning represented them fixing those flights. The Volt was one of these discs, that had, apparently over time, gotten more and more flippy, compared to what they wanted it to be. Anyway, so they make these changes, remove the patent pending and add a patent number to the bottom of the flight plate, and start putting flight numbers on the discs, all in the same go basically.

So, this is where it gets really interesting to me. Previously, MVP only had flight charts, not numbers, but if you asked anyone what a Crave flew like, from the very first Crave produced, to the last patent pending Crave, I think nearly everyone would say like a "worn in Teebird" or something similar. 7/5/0/1.5 maybe if you were to give it numbers. I never once heard anyone say it had flight numbers of 6.5/5/-1/1. But MVP stamped those numbers as the official numbers on the disc when they brought production in-house.

This is where I'm a bit of a conspiracy theorist on this. For 5 years, the Crave was stable and straight, and suddenly we're supposed to believe that its "intended flight" was always -1/1? And this from one of their most popular, if not most popular fairway drivers? I think they messed it up a bit in "reconditioning" but because of the rush to get production ramped up, they stuck to their guns on it and just adjusted the flight numbers. I can't believe that they were that out of touch with how the Crave flew for over 5 years, or that they had let the mold slide by as such a popular disc when it wasn't flying how they wanted it to.

Meanwhile, with the explosion of disc golf due to the pandemic, lots and lots of new players really like the current version of the Crave, because it's less stable, it's easier to throw straight and fits a nice spot in their bag, so if MVP were to fix it now, the plethora of new players probably far outweigh those of us who have been playing from the beginning, so they'd make a whole lot more people unhappy than they already have.

 

[mas30066]

Pretty much nailed it. I'm used to max weight cosmic neutrons and the internet hype led me to believe I would get a flight that pushed straighter longer and gave me a little more distance. What I mostly noticed was my fission seemed to run out of steam and wanted to get to the ground sooner. It was coming up a solid fifteen or twenty feet shorter on holes where I would typically throw a cosmic neutron.

I feel like that longer/straighter thing is true for the mids. The Crave's maybe at the transition point between that cheating to get carry kind of vibe and the driver benefit of retaining the base stability (without improving) and reducing strain by allowing a lighter disc in full power. Josh has the Fission Crave figured out. I couldn't quite do I'm sticking with the Hokoms for what I want out of that slot.

 

[The Shide]

^Awesome. Thank you, Zendragon!

 

[mas30066]

The other option might be to offer an original recipe Crave equivalent as a revived 0/2 Clash?

MVP had a patent pending for their overmold technology for about the first 8-10 years of them being a company. I don't remember the exact timing, but, for the entirety of that time, they outsourced their molds to another company. The molds all said "patent pending" around the sprue on the underside of the disc.

Anyway, when the patent was approved they also happened to move their production in-house, no longer outsourcing. They bought brand new machines for their molds that were incompatible with the old molds used in the machines by the outsourcers. So they "reconditioned" their molds to fit the new machines. Mostly minor changes were made, and the intent was not to change the discs flights in most cases, however there were a few exceptions. According to MVP, several discs had changed from their initial intended flight, and their reconditioning represented them fixing those flights. The Volt was one of these discs, that had, apparently over time, gotten more and more flippy, compared to what they wanted it to be. Anyway, so they make these changes, remove the patent pending and add a patent number to the bottom of the flight plate, and start putting flight numbers on the discs, all in the same go basically.

So, this is where it gets really interesting to me. Previously, MVP only had flight charts, not numbers, but if you asked anyone what a Crave flew like, from the very first Crave produced, to the last patent pending Crave, I think nearly everyone would say like a "worn in Teebird" or something similar. 7/5/0/1.5 maybe if you were to give it numbers. I never once heard anyone say it had flight numbers of 6.5/5/-1/1. But MVP stamped those numbers as the official numbers on the disc when they brought production in-house.

This is where I'm a bit of a conspiracy theorist on this. For 5 years, the Crave was stable and straight, and suddenly we're supposed to believe that its "intended flight" was always -1/1? And this from one of their most popular, if not most popular fairway drivers? I think they messed it up a bit in "reconditioning" but because of the rush to get production ramped up, they stuck to their guns on it and just adjusted the flight numbers. I can't believe that they were that out of touch with how the Crave flew for over 5 years, or that they had let the mold slide by as such a popular disc when it wasn't flying how they wanted it to.

Meanwhile, with the explosion of disc golf due to the pandemic, lots and lots of new players really like the current version of the Crave, because it's less stable, it's easier to throw straight and fits a nice spot in their bag, so if MVP were to fix it now, the plethora of new players probably far outweigh those of us who have been playing from the beginning, so they'd make a whole lot more people unhappy than they already have.

 

[gwsmallwood]

Generally speaking, the Fission stuff tends to act about 10g heavier in terms of stability because of the greater mass difference between the flight plate and the wing than the comparable neutron disc with a denser center. I've read it on the internet but I've also found it be a pretty accurate statement in practice.

That would be very helpful to have a rough quantification. I'll have to do some experiments to see if I agree. The only discs I have in multiple plastics so far are Volts. I have most of them right around 173, except for one Fission that I have at 165 and an Electron at 167.

I threw a friend's 173 Fission Wave and I just bought my own 162 Plasma Wave, but I haven't thrown it yet. Sounds like the Plasma 'should' fly considerably less stable than the Fission.

 

[zendragon]

The other option might be to offer an original recipe Crave equivalent as a revived 0/2 Clash?

That would be fantastic. Or if not the Clash, maybe a new deadly sin, like a Glutton or Greed.

 

[zendragon]

That would be very helpful to have a rough quantification. I'll have to do some experiments to see if I agree. The only discs I have in multiple plastics so far are Volts. I have most of them right around 173, except for one Fission that I have at 165 and an Electron at 167.

I threw a friend's 173 Fission Wave and I just bought my own 162 Plasma Wave, but I haven't thrown it yet. Sounds like the Plasma 'should' fly considerably less stable than the Fission.

The problem is, PLH is still going to be a bigger factor, so it more depends on the PLH than fission/non-fission. All things being equal though, yeah, the fission should be more stable.

 

[mas30066]

Tournament time!

Finalized the bag for Saturday after yesterday's practice round where I found every conceivable stroke (and a few beyond conception) at ERP. Playing age protected from the long/black tees and I feel good (yesterday's performance notwithstanding) about the basic gameplan.

Tried a Catalyst on a few holes where I thought I might want a little more fade but pulled it right back out. Switched Resistors and revised the mids to Fission Hex/Fission Resctor/Eclipse Reactor. Don't quite have the Pyro dialed in right now. Planning on a *lot* of Crave/Inertia/Wave BH and Tesla/Defy FH off the tee.

If I can hit my turnover angle, it'll be a really fun round. There are prettier courses around, but East Roswell really does seem to cover most of the bases for shapes and elevation. Good, broad workout.

 

[discerdoo]

The problem is, PLH is still going to be a bigger factor, so it more depends on the PLH than fission/non-fission. All things being equal though, yeah, the fission should be more stable.

I'd like a Hex with a tick more stability. I'll see if I can find a max weight fission and test your theory.

 

[strunk flugget]

I'd like a Hex with a tick more stability. I'll see if I can find a max weight fission and test your theory.

My frustration with the MVP mids is the gap between the reactor and hex isn't enough IMO...at least for me. Reactor seems to want a more pronounced 'S flight' as it breaks in compared to the Hex being a laser beam. But for me, I'd ideally like to have a 5 5 0 2 that i could beat into something straighter or having a bit more flex to it...like the mustang or kotuku...i've just invested too much into MVP right now to make a switch. Eclipse reactor - fission reactor - fission hex isn't a bad shout by any means.