Now that's a pro call-out

[Halcón]

The only way this game will grow is if it's played at events which also happen to include disc golf on the side. Think tourneys with alcohol flowing, music, entertainment...etc. Right now NOBODY from the outside cares about disc golf. You have to draw people to it somehow.

 

[Stardoggy]

The only way this game will grow is if it's played at events which also happen to include disc golf on the side. Think tourneys with alcohol flowing, music, entertainment...etc. Right now NOBODY from the outside cares about disc golf. You have to draw people to it somehow.

Or start using it for charity events, sponsored by the big DG companies. Discing for Cancer, or something of that ilk. Whatever it takes to get more people interested.

 

[BgWvDave]

actually a little curious...who is they? (not sure you will answer, wouldn't expect it either)

Slider, you are they and I like many others on this forum grow tired of your incessant nagging about weed and alcohol.

Sorry I would have replied to your inquiry much sooner but I only frequent this forum during work hours. Most of time it helps my day go by faster. This thread is a perfect example.

 

[Thumber]

Or start using it for charity events, sponsored by the big DG companies. Discing for Cancer, or something of that ilk. Whatever it takes to get more people interested.

By this I take it you feel the sport needs more people. Why?

 

[disc qualified]

most of the people i meet on the course have no idea there are pro players, let alone a pro tour

pro tour could vanish and only a small handful of people would notice

ob-la-di ob-la-da life will go on

 

[Thumber]

most of the people i meet on the course have no idea there are pro players, let alone a pro tour

pro tour could vanish and only a small handful of people would notice

ob-la-di ob-la-da life will go on

that's my point as well

 

[Halcón]

most of the people i meet on the course have no idea there are pro players, let alone a pro tour

pro tour could vanish and only a small handful of people would notice

I don't know about "most," but a fairly high percentage of players don't know the PDGA exists.

 

[Thumber]

I don't know about "most," but a fairly high percentage of players don't know the PDGA exists.

I support the PDGA. Standardized rules alone are reason for support

what I question is this dream of a mainstream, big money tour for the elites of the sport

 

[JTacoma03]

No one who knows me and knows about the local and youth disc golf programs I organize would say I've given up on disc golf. So far as the status quo goes, in disc golf the status quo has always been the people with their fingers crossed saying professional disc golf will work if we just keep beating this dead horse. I am in no way advocating the status quo, I'm saying the status quo is never going to work and is a waste of time.

So far is being in your way, the PDGA mindset is in my way. Way back in the 90's I proposed to the PDGA that we start a committee of people inside the parks and recreation profession and work to promote disc golf as a recreational activity within the mainstream parks and recreation industry. I got the usual "we have something big in the works" answer and was told the PDGA wasn't interested in promoting disc golf as a recreational activity. That put me on the outside; I do my thing entirely separate from you.

As I do my thing, the expectation from players is that I am going to provide events with unsustainable payouts over 100% of what they pay in. They expect that because that is what the PDGA has done for years; bribe people to play disc golf with inflated payouts. When I organize a sustainable series of disc golf events, they say I'm "ripping them off." You have to have a sponsor pumping money into events at every level, even the very lowest recreational level, to avoid being accused of ripping people off. That entitled attitude by the players toward what should be a recreational activity ties my hands.

Fair enough, and you make some great points. The big difference in things that are happening now is that we're not trying to give the pros more money. We're trying to create a product which is more lucrative, yes, but carries certain stipulations on and off the course. It won't change everybody, but that can't be the goal anyway as it's impossible to accomplish. The goal is to change the public perception.

 

[Halcón]

I support the PDGA. Standardized rules alone are reason for support

what I question is this dream of a mainstream, big money tour for the elites of the sport

Yea, off the top of my head I can't think of a single reason that I'd want to see the Tour grow.

Ok, got one. If only to allow Tour players to at least make a livable wage playing this game. Not rich like the other spoiled brats from other sports. Just enough to be able to afford a hotel room, and not have to crash on someone's couch while traveling.

 

[New013]

I don't know that I've seen any real talk about the PDGA eliminating payouts at all events, just that they're doing it at some of the bigger events.

I've heard some things. It's the direction they're wanting to push things in.

 

[Thumber]

Ok, got one. If only to allow Tour players to at least make a livable wage playing this game. Not rich like the other spoiled brats from other sports. Just enough to be able to afford a hotel room, and not have to crash on someone's couch while traveling.

I guess I don't see what a tour that allows for a livable wage really adds to the DG world.

any benefits that accrue to the top players in the league should be ancillary benefits that spun out from long term, strategic support for the grass roots of the game

 

[ru4por]

Yea, off the top of my head I can't think of a single reason that I'd want to see the Tour grow.

Ok, got one. If only to allow Tour players to at least make a livable wage playing this game. Not rich like the other spoiled brats from other sports. Just enough to be able to afford a hotel room, and not have to crash on someone's couch while traveling.

Funny, this made me think. I am a stauch off road rally enthusiast. I go to several races every year. The sport is very niche in this country and struggle along on the back of the participants spending their own dime to participate for little prize money, nor fame. Along came SoBe, Monster, Red Bull....Pastrana, Deegan, Faust with a boatload of cash. They participated for a couple years and the series flourished....for them. Bored, these "athletes" moved on to form a sport called RallyCross. Nothing really resembling rally. The sport was left destroyed. I am convinced if asked, the other 95% of drivers would not consider the "going mainstream" postive. Either now or at that time. Disc golf is a very large community, most of which would not be impacted positively by the game "making it".

 

[DiscJunkie]

The thread has drifted somewhat.
Still waiting for Barsby to elaborate and clarify some of his complaints.

In the meantime, some thoughts:
The PDGA was founded by Pros, for Pros; and is largely run by Pros for Pros.
Fact is, the Pros are a very small proportion of the DG world.
The PDGA is largely unconcerned with growing the sport on a recreational level. Just look at their expenditures to see where their focus is at.

The overwhelming majority of disc golf participants are people that have never even played in a tourney, and wouldn't want to.

Personally, I don't think weed or alcohol has any bearing on the growth of the sport. It's a niche sport at best and our best chance at growth is to spread the word at a recreational level.
Numbers will drive major sponsors, regardless of reputation.
Grow the sport at the recreational level and get Mom and Dad involved in driving little Johnny or Jane to the course to play. That's where the growth of the sport will come, from the ground up.

Look where Soccer or Lacrosse was 30 years ago. By getting into the schools and getting families involved, they grew from a small niche into a movement.

Most of what the PDGA has done for the last 30 years is try to figure out ways to enrich Pro purses and increase tournament participation, to enrich Pro purses.

 

[Halcón]

Maybe we're destined to always be a small niche sport. After reading the last two posts...that might be a bad thing afterall.

 

[KaBooM]

I guess I don't see what a tour that allows for a livable wage really adds to the DG world.

any benefits that accrue to the top players in the league should be ancillary benefits that spun out from long term, strategic support for the grass roots of the game

I see some contradiction in these thoughts. While it is great to want more grass roots participation, play it in high schools, colleges, etc. However, DG is a competitive game. It is not hula hoops or lawn darts. Having a successful model that will allow and encourage people to be really good. Best in State, Best in Country, Best in World, all are natural outgrowths of a competitive sport. So those that say "blow up all the major tournaments" are effectively neutering the competitive pinnacle of the game.

I agree that sponsor money is what will grow the prize pool. Increase the participative nature of the game (a la skiing) and more money will flow into the game.

 

[Three Putt]

Yea, off the top of my head I can't think of a single reason that I'd want to see the Tour grow.

Ok, got one. If only to allow Tour players to at least make a livable wage playing this game. Not rich like the other spoiled brats from other sports. Just enough to be able to afford a hotel room, and not have to crash on someone's couch while traveling.

That is their choice. They have a decision to make, and if they decide they want the life they have to accept the downside. It's not our responsibility to make their life easier, and focusing on attempting to make their life easier has caused us to miss opportunities to promote the sport IMO.

It's our history, though. Disc golf started upside-down. There was professional disc golf before there was amateur disc golf. The professional side has been waiting for the amateur side to develop instead of the other way around. It has skewed our priorities since the start.

 

[Three Putt]

Maybe we're destined to always be a small niche sport. After reading the last two posts...that might be a bad thing afterall.

One of the things I have predicted for years is that if there ever was a big-dollar sponsor for the PDGA tour, the local clubs would be forced out of the big PDGA events. Why would you tie up a lot of money in an event and leave it in the hands of a dysfunctional group of Frisbee freaks? Re-read threads about Pro World's this year if you wonder what I'm talking about. The people who have built this sport and carried the PDGA tour on their backs will be out, replaced by a for-profit entity.

Whether that is a good or bad thing depends on your point of view.

 

[ru4por]

The thread has drifted somewhat.
Still waiting for Barsby to elaborate and clarify some of his complaints.

In the meantime, some thoughts:
The PDGA was founded by Pros, for Pros; and is largely run by Pros for Pros.
Fact is, the Pros are a very small proportion of the DG world.
The PDGA is largely unconcerned with growing the sport on a recreational level. Just look at their expenditures to see where their focus is at.

The overwhelming majority of disc golf participants are people that have never even played in a tourney, and wouldn't want to.

Personally, I don't think weed or alcohol has any bearing on the growth of the sport. It's a niche sport at best and our best chance at growth is to spread the word at a recreational level.
Numbers will drive major sponsors, regardless of reputation.
Grow the sport at the recreational level and get Mom and Dad involved in driving little Johnny or Jane to the course to play. That's where the growth of the sport will come, from the ground up.

Look where Soccer or Lacrosse was 30 years ago. By getting into the schools and getting families involved, they grew from a small niche into a movement.

Most of what the PDGA has done for the last 30 years is try to figure out ways to enrich Pro purses and increase tournament participation, to enrich Pro purses.

Nice summary. I don't think the discussed substances use has impacted ball golf too much. It is certainly as prevelent there as on a disc golf course.

 

[ZAMson]

....big-dollar sponsor... the local clubs would be forced out.... ...tie up a lot of money in an event and leave it in the hands of a dysfunctional group ...

Whether that is a good or bad thing depends on your point of view.

I dunno man, arming the Taliban doesn't seem like that bad of an idea.