OB disc use

[HEFTYLEFTYSH]

I was informed that a disc that has gone OB is not able to be used on the next throw, unless the throw was taken within 10m of the basket. Also, that you are not supposed to retrieve an OB disc until after you have made your next throw. Are both of these correct? I have searched the rulebook not finding this listed.

 

[biscoe]

you have 30 seconds to throw once it's your turn. you should pay attention to others throws when they are making them and not be a distraction. other than that there are no constrictions on what you do with your time. if you have time to get your disc then get it if you'd like and use it if you'd like.

 

[bradharris]

I believe the applicable rule would be the 30 second rule. As long as you can retrieve the disc and rethrow within the 30 seconds allowed, you can use the OB disc. I'm struggling to find anything else in the rulebook that prohibits this.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Isn't that a rule change this year? That now you can use the previously thrown disc?

I'm pretty sure I saw something about that on optional rethrows; not sure about OB.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The confusion may be coming from old rule 803.04H where a player called on a stance violation (foot fault) was not allowed to retrieve that thrown disc for the rethrow unless they were within 10m. That rule is not in the new rulebook. The only time you can't retrieve an OB disc is if it's still your turn and you can't get to it and throw again within 30 seconds, or your next turn will come up fast enough that you can't get out there to get it and get back to throw within 30 seconds once it's your turn again.

In non-sanctioned play, sometimes the TD will disallow use of OB discs for the rest of the round as an additional special rule. That rule is not allowed in sanctioned play even as a special rule unless it's approved by PDGA HQ as an X-tier format where no ratings would be calculated.

 

[JC17393]

I was informed that a disc that has gone OB is not able to be used on the next throw, unless the throw was taken within 10m of the basket. Also, that you are not supposed to retrieve an OB disc until after you have made your next throw. Are both of these correct? I have searched the rulebook not finding this listed.

The bolded should be your first indication that whoever informed you was incorrect. As others have stated, there's no rule against retrieving one's disc and re-throwing it provided you can do it without taking more than your allotted 30 seconds to throw. As Chuck points out, there used to be a rule about not retrieving a disc before a re-throw, but it only applied to stance violation calls, never to OB shots.

Generally speaking, the only time you can't retrieve a disc is if entry into the area in which the disc landed is prohibited. Such areas could include bodies of water, private property posted with no trespassing signs, or nature preserves/sanctuaries.

 

[Script]

I had this come up a couple years ago. The best way to address it is have them show you in the rule book where this occurs. When the person was unable to, it was answered.

Like Chuck said, at that time, the person was hung up on the old stance violation verbiage.

 

[Dan Ensor]

I have a supplementary question. I played a tournament that had an OB line that discs thrown over were not to be retrieved at all by the player. It's a private property fence line, and discs are retrieved by the club after the round.

During the tourney, someone threw their disc over that fence. While waiting on the next tee, the home owner came out, picked up the disc, and returned it to the player.

Question: can that disc be used for the duration of the round?

 

[bradharris]

I have a supplementary question. I played a tournament that had an OB line that discs thrown over were not to be retrieved at all by the player. It's a private property fence line, and discs are retrieved by the club after the round.

During the tourney, someone threw their disc over that fence. While waiting on the next tee, the home owner came out, picked up the disc, and returned it to the player.

Question: can that disc be used for the duration of the round?

I would say yes. The prohibition is more about players entering that area. If you can get the disc back without entering the restricted area, you should be fine.

Of course, there is nothing in the rulebook to dictate this, it would be up to the TD to specify the rules for that situation.

 

[Dan Ensor]

I would concur, grudgingly. He's the only person that didn't have to deal with being without a disc for the rest of the round.

Also, does that mean if I had thrown ob, I should have just sent someone not in the tournament after it, since they aren't restricted by the rules?

 

[biscoe]

if i as TD found out you had sent someone into a proscribed area i personally would treat it as if you had done it yourself.

 

[bradharris]

In that case I would say that you are responsible for your caddy and anyone else accompanying you on the course. If they break a rule for your benefit, it's as good as you breaking a rule.

 

[joshmo65]

I would concur, grudgingly. He's the only person that didn't have to deal with being without a disc for the rest of the round.

Also, does that mean if I had thrown ob, I should have just sent someone not in the tournament after it, since they aren't restricted by the rules?

The closest I could come up with refers to caddies in the competition manual:

3.5.C Players choosing to use a caddie will be solely responsible for their caddie's conduct from the two minute warning until the players cards are turned in. Misconduct by a caddie may subject both the player and caddie to disqualification and/or suspension.

I would think that if you told someone to get your disc or someone associated with you in any way got your disc (and only your disc) for you, that you could be penalized under this rule.

 

[JC17393]

if i as TD found out you had sent someone into a proscribed area i personally would treat it as if you had done it yourself.

Bingo. Even if a person isn't carrying your bag, if they are carrying out an action on your behalf or at your request, I think they'd qualify as your caddy under the rules.

Competition Manual section 3.5 Carts and Caddies
C. Players choosing to use a caddie will be solely responsible for their caddie's conduct from the two minute warning until the players cards are turned in. Misconduct by a caddie may subject both the player and caddie to disqualification and/or suspension.

 

[Dan Ensor]

That's why I wouldn't let you find out ... "I just though he was visiting the home owner"



I'd just like to make a point quickly, that I'm talking about people intentionally taking advantage of the rule. I have no ill-feelings toward the individual that had his disc returned, even if he used it for the rest of the round. He was obviously prepared to go without it for the rest of the round, and was simply pleased and surprised to have his disc returned.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Bingo. Even if a person isn't carrying your bag, if they are carrying out an action on your behalf or at your request, I think they'd qualify as your caddy under the rules.

Didn't the home owner act on that person's behalf? Could I not qualify that home owner as the person's caddy?

 

[bradharris]

Didn't the home owner act on that person's behalf? Could I not qualify that home owner as the person's caddy?

Now you're arguing semantics.

If you want to further blur the lines. Lets say you can see the homeowner in the yard. So you call him over to toss your disc back. Now you've actually sent another person to retrieve your disc from the restricted area. No different from sending your buddy in right?

You can argue these semantics, but when you look at the intent of the rule, it's pretty clear. The rule is there to prevent trespassing on another person's property. If you're lucky enough to encounter someone who is allowed on that property (ie, the owner) then you have a chance to get your disc back. Otherwise, you're out of luck.

 

[Dan Ensor]

luck.

Which is obviously what we want to determine the outcomes of golf rounds ...

 

[jeverett]

Which is obviously what we want to determine the outcomes of golf rounds ...

Some courses are more luck-based than others, that's just how the game is. Given that at stake in this particular case is criminal trespassing, I don't really see anything for it other than moving the course/hole.. and yeah, that's not likely an option.

FYI, there's a good white paper from the PDGA on the topic of analyzing the national tour courses using the Pearson Correlation Coefficient to measure how closely-associated initial player rating is with their performance at the event. The goal being to examine (and potentially mitigate) the luck-based factors that reduce the correlation between player rating and event outcome.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Some courses are more luck-based than others, that's just how the game is. Given that at stake in this particular case is criminal trespassing, I don't really see anything for it other than moving the course/hole.. and yeah, that's not likely an option.

I'm not sure it is criminal trespassing. I can legally cross a fence to track a deer that I've shot. I'd definitely fight it in court if the PDGA tried to ban me for a year.

Also, I'm not talking about course design. I'm talking about rule design.