PAR

[craftsman]

Dave, he didn't have to say what par he plays cause here in the mitten it's assumed three

I beleive dgscene uses all threes too, granted it's originated by a mi. tosser.

I saw a guy yesterday after I finished a warm up at willow. Nice kid, but when I asked him what he shot he said 15 down from the longs! I had just shot -3 on the shorts so I asked for clarification. Turns out he played all fives. IMHO he could be a better golfer if he played all threes from the ams.

 

[Cgkdisc]

So if setting par on the holes as 3s instead of 5s will make a player better, then par really does matter. In that case, we could all get even better if some holes are set as par 2s?

 

[Olorin]

the thing is, does "par" matter? just go see who throws less.

Why Par Matters

 

[Olorin]

I think that part of the confusion in this debate is because some people are talking about whether or not to play "Sign par". In my experience, the vast majority of sign pars are worthless because they are based on vague and unreliable standards, plus they're usually "Rec par" instead of par for a certain skill level. Although the PDGA has standards for par, as does CR Par, these are rarely used by the vast majority of courses. So I don't use Sign par since I never really know how they derived their numbers. Instead I use "True Par" (which just happens to be CR Par), and it has to be calculated from the effective length of the hole.

 

[craftsman]

So if setting par on the holes as 3s instead of 5s will make a player better, then par really does matter. In that case, we could all get even better if some holes are set as par 2s?

I know your being smart but i do think it would help, though I could be wrong. I use the "2's" to try to help balance the long holes. I'm far from being a great player so if I can average four strokes, with the ocassional three on a hole that's sign says par 5- how is that number accurate? Why factor in two putts?

I'm not against varied par, I think it'd be cool to say I eagled a hole, I just like how easy it is to keep and compare scores.
Do you guys play varied par on the am tees?

 

[Cgkdisc]

Seriously, I believe top players, and even further from the top players, think of certain holes as par 2s in terms of their expectations where a 3 feels like a bogey. So par does matter for many in dealing with the mental game as you suggest. If a hole listed as a par 5 is 3'd by anyone with a putt (versus a 150' upshot) other than a top pro, I agree it's not a par 5 for that skill level.

 

[magictenor1]

I don't agree with the idea that if you are -5 or +5 changes how you try to play. I am always looking to play my best and improve my score. If I am playing a difficult course then my focus might be on trying to limit bogies wheras on an easy course it might be making as many birdies as possible but I am always trying to score my best. When you watch ball golf tournies you see the par 5's are the holes where good players expect to pick up birdies (and eagles sometimes) so I don't mind seeing an easy (relatively) par 5 sometimes.

 

[Terry C]

Dave, he didn't have to say what par he plays cause here in the mitten it's assumed three

I beleive dgscene uses all threes too, granted it's originated by a mi. tosser.

I saw a guy yesterday after I finished a warm up at willow. Nice kid, but when I asked him what he shot he said 15 down from the longs! I had just shot -3 on the shorts so I asked for clarification. Turns out he played all fives. IMHO he could be a better golfer if he played all threes from the ams.

Thats the problem, that kid thought he was an awesome disc golfer because he ended up being 15 under par, only because he was playing par 5's, thats pretty stupid.

He was actually around 15-20 over par if he were playing par 3. This score indicates his skill level much better than the other way he was keeping score.

If I played a hard course I could say Im 20 strokes under par and I am the best discgolfer in the land (of course only if I play all par 5's)

 

[Terry C]

18 holes x3 for par= 54.
18 holes x5 for par= 90.

Thats a huge differece in what par ends up being. To me if you are making everything a par 5 it is probobly just a method you have created to feel better about yourself because you cant end up after 18 holes being anywhere near par, so you are making the par higher to make your game look better then it really is.

 

[DSCJNKY]

It's been a while since I posted this, and I'm REALLY BORED, so:

Par is a design label.

If the hole was designed to be reached in 1 shot, it is a par 3.
If the hole was designed to be reached in 2 shots*, it is a par 4.
If the hole was designed to be reached in 3 shots**, it is a par 5.

If you can't easily tell how many shots a hole was designed to be reached in, there is probably a design problem with that hole.

And, yes, it does matter which skill level the hole was designed for.


Notes:
* Or, at the player's discretion, 1 heroic*** shot.
** Or, at the player's discretion, 2 heroic*** shots.
*** "heroic" implies risky and really really good.


It's really that simple.

All of this is correct. It really is that simple.
DSCJNKY

 

[Terry C]

Flip City, the number 1 rated course in the USA uses all par 3's for all 24 holes. Thats a tough course. I end up being 5-10 over par on it all the time. I would be pissed off if they changed the pars to 4-5's. Almost everyone would just keep playing it as a par 3 course like they play any other course with par 4-5's.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Based on the tournament SSAs, it is essentially a par 3 course though.

 

[craftsman]

Haha. There's a thread on dgrus named ace country. The op is asking why on dgscene there's a Michigan ace everyday- maybe cause we use 3's

 

[Terry C]

Haha. There's a thread on dgrus named ace country. The op is asking why on dgscene there's a Michigan ace everyday- maybe cause we use 3's

Those damn filthy par 3 using michigan bastards!! lol

 

[Cgkdisc]

Not surprising since the Ace Race event originates from Michigan.

 

[sirflicksalot]

use posted par but if there is none i do all 3 all the way

 

[Terry C]

use posted par but if there is none i do all 3 all the way

The problem with that is a lot of courses list the holes as par 4-5 to make it nice and easy for the noobies when actually they should be listed as par 3.

 

[Dave242]

Flip City, the number 1 rated course in the USA uses all par 3's for all 24 holes. Thats a tough course. I end up being 5-10 over par on it all the time. I would be pissed off if they changed the pars to 4-5's. Almost everyone would just keep playing it as a par 3 course like they play any other course with par 4-5's.

Looking at the list of raw lengths (not effective length that factors in elevation - and I know there is elevation!) from the long tees:
* There are 4 holes out of 24 that would be considered par-4's using CR-Par for Blue level (2, 2A, 15, 16).
* 2 of those 4 are extremely short par-4's. 15 is 446' which is only 16' past the 430' threshold, and 16 is 477' (47' past the threshold). Neither of these would be Gold Par-4's by CR-Par standards.
* There are 5 holes shorter than 200' - and most of those I assume are expected to be deuced by Blue level players and higher.

So, as Chuck mentioned (regarding SSAs), this certainly seems like a "par-3" type course and a course that is totally reasonable that everyone would use "all par-3" for easy scoring.

That said, just because the #1 DGCR User-rated course in the country has only 2-4 true par-4's (and no par-5's) does not make your argument any more legit. Neither does the fact that you have been playing 15+ years and you have always done it that way. Heck, even I have been playing that long and I consider myself a relative newcomer to the game.

 

[Dave242]

The problem with that is a lot of courses list the holes as par 4-5 to make it nice and easy for the noobies when actually they should be listed as par 3.

Changing a number on a sign (or scorecard or website) does absolutely nothing......nada.......zilch.........squat to make the hole design play easier or harder. Nor does it do anything to make them seem harder or easier. Absurd!

 

[DSCJNKY]

Flip City, the number 1 rated course in the USA uses all par 3's for all 24 holes. Thats a tough course. I end up being 5-10 over par on it all the time. I would be pissed off if they changed the pars to 4-5's. Almost everyone would just keep playing it as a par 3 course like they play any other course with par 4-5's.

The USDGC... one of the Top tournaments in the country, and played by all the top players in the country/world... uses Par 4's and 5's. I don't remember hearing any of the pros complaining about the Par there.

Therefore, if Par 4's and 5's are seen as legit by the Top pros, then they should be legit for you too.
DSCJNKY