Pay to Play is NOT a con

[MoPhunk]

I must be spoiled because we have 9 courses within 10 miles of my house all in public parks all free. Every course has signs up with concrete tee pads (except camden 2 but the course is not finished) Every sign has a sponser. I think that since i buy my disks in the cities i play they get the sales tax on that and moste of the time i buy some beer or gatorade sometimes gas. I don't think i would pay to play because of all the options around me and in my opinion it is a con. Let's not give these politicians and local leaders another reason to put their hands in my back pocket and take my hard earned money.

 

[ptsawyer]

I must be spoiled because we have 9 courses within 10 miles of my house all in public parks all free. Every course has signs up with concrete tee pads (except camden 2 but the course is not finished)

The answer is YES!! you are spoiled.

Tell me where you live so I can move. I am from Toledo, OH and we really only have access to 2 courses.

 

[ShannonHG]

Paying to play disc golf increases its legitimacy in the same way paying for a bottle of water at a fast food joint improves my dining experience. I look forward to pay-to-play disc golf in the same way I look forward to paying $7 bucks a pillow then next time I board an airplane. If somebody wants to put up a course on private land - fine, he may charge what he wishes for it, and I will never play it. Every course I've played (and I've played some very nice ones) has been on public land and financed with public funding and donations from local organizations. I think these groups do a fine job nurturing the sport, and I don't think insisting it be a cash generator would help it at all, in fact, it would hurt the sport greatly.

I am generally a believer in people paying for the public resources that they use, but not when it comes to the very basics of a public park. Disc golf does not cost what ball golf does, not nearly as much. The costs of putting in a disc golf course and maintaining it are comparable to that of playground equipment and such. I can't imagine telling the boys who use the basketball hoops in the park that it will cost 'em five bucks a game. I don't think that the man who jogs around the track should be charged the "nominal fee" of only one dollar a lap (hope you brought your wallet). I don't want the little girl who climbs on the jungle gym to be charged by the climb or by the hour (can't afford to climb - tell your mommy to make more money). And I don't want the kids who just spent several weeks worth of allowance on their first golf discs to be charged what some people here consider a paltry sum of 2, 5, 10 or 15 dollars for the right to learn the game that all of us learned for free. I realize that parks cost money, but I'd rather have my taxes going to pay for people to get exercise for free than have to pay their higher health care costs caused by them not getting out and exercising because they didn't want to spend the cash or didn't have it to spend.

I find the very idea of pay to play will hinder the growth of the sport if it becomes the norm. Just because you pay more for something doesn't make it better. But for those who really feel better to pay, I've got some fine water to sell you for only $1 per glass - it springs forth every day from my kitchen sink.

If you refrain from playing any course because you're too cheap to give up 3 bucks to help out with the upkeep, that's your loss dude.
You will also find that you are missing out on some of the best disc golf has to offer.
City parks are funded by tax money we all pay. I don't think anyone should have to pay to play public courses either. If anything there should be a donation box set up that people can willingly chip in if they want to.

As the owner of a private course I designed and built myself, 14 years ago

(http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=540) , I know exactly how much work goes into the regular maintenance and upkeep of a disc golf course.
Ptsawyer I commend you for starting this thread and agree 100 %.

With the price of fuel these days especially, it is almost mandatory for someone like me to charge a small fee to play their course. The money I take in just barely covers the fuel costs, but still doesn't even come close to reimbursing me for all the time I spend on the course and the maintenance of the equipment.
People who have the attitude that 3 dollars is too much to pay for a nice quiet round of golf in a serene private setting, have no idea what they are missing. I hope they enjoy the time spent waiting on crowds at the public courses they can play for free anytime. I also hope they don't have to incur the expense of having their head stitched up, because someone who just wandered onto the course with a brand new driver didn't know he was supposed to yell FORE when his errant throw went straight toward a group of people they were playing with.

Something a very experienced disc golfer (one o the very first) told me when I was being shy about going to pay to play here...
I was not wanting to charge money because I felt like people might feel less welcome and not want to play. Carlton Howard told me that it could also work just the opposite. Some people like himself, would feel more welcome to come and play any time if they were paying to do so and helping support the course. That is what changed my mind.

 

[MoPhunk]

I must be spoiled because we have 9 courses within 10 miles of my house all in public parks all free. Every course has signs up with concrete tee pads (except camden 2 but the course is not finished)

The answer is YES!! you are spoiled.

Tell me where you live so I can move. I am from Toledo, OH and we really only have access to 2 courses.

I live in the Quad Cities in Illinois. We have:
IA SIDE:
Middle Park - Bettendorf, IA - 18 holes, signs and cement tee pads
Eastern Avenue - Davenport, IA - 18 holes, signs and cement tee pads
West lake Park - Davenport, IA - 24 holes, some signs and cement teepads
Devil's Glenn Park - Bettendorf, IA - 12 holes, signs and cement tee pads
IL SIDE:
Longview - Rock Island, IL - 18 holes, no signs and cement tee pads
Camden 1 - Milan, IL - 18 holes, signs and cement tee pads
Camden 2 - Milan, IL - 18 holes, no signs yet, and cement tee pads
Prospect Park - Moline, IL - 18 holes, signs, and cement tee pads
Buttterworth Park - East Moline, IL - 9 holes, signs and cement tee pads

If you're willng to drive 25 to 30 miles there are a lot more courses you can play.

 

[Rbuzz9]

i'd rather pay to play than play on some of the town courses i have seen where the town basically throws a bunch of ghetto baskets up (that are made out of used car tires and chain) in an open field with no tee markers. Obviously you can get creative and move the tees around - but you have to be the only one there - and it's still not the same as a course - and then again you can't when 40 Dungeons and Dragons people show up all dressed in black with capes with foam swords and shields and have some strange fencing tourney. I know i could take them all out with one toss of my Xcalibur but id rather not to hard time with an "aggravated assault with a disc charge." Most free courses are fine for me personally - i dont get out as much as i'd like - but 45 minutes away from where i live it's 5 dollars to play at Maple Hill - where they just held a PDGA event. Whens the last time anyone could play at a PGA course for less than $200 greens fees?

 

[Huff]

I can only think of a few course around here where you dont have to pay to play, and those are all on private land and only used by friends of the owners. All the others that are opent o the public are on private land as well and are pay to play. usually $3-5.00

Its the norm here.

 

[Rbuzz9]

5 bux is nothing - its funny when people won't shell out cheap money for a round of golf at a nice course. but they won't bat an eye at the $50 bartab they pickup after.

 

[justin]

I can't agree with PT and Rbuzz more.
If it's private property then you're lucky you're allowed to play at all. Even going to the movies is over $10 now. What else can you do for $5-10 which can last all day long nowadays?

I have to admit I've have very positive pay-to-play experiences. There's only one private course I've played (it was in western Mass) that I didn't feel measured up to what I'm used to paying for.

Here's a list of what you can normally expect on a pay-to-play course:
Disc Golfers only. -No dog walkers, kids running thru, soccer momes, etc.
Maintained fairways -Open holes are not overgrown simply because the parks people don't care.
Scorecards -Not always but far more oftenly available than at public.
Proshop -Not always but far more oftenly available than at public.
Basket maintenance -You know how sometimes there's that one dented or askew pole hole? Not usually the case at private courses.
Other Bonuses -Loaner discs, woodchips on the greens, allowed to drink (if that's your think)

Suck it up people. Disc golf is an incredibly inexpensive activity. More courses create more players. Partonize what's around. It helps us all in the long run. If you don't think the private course in your area is worth the money then tell the owner in a constructive way. I'm sure they will appreciate the input.

 

[Treewacker9]

I would welcome a pay for play facility in my locale. However, it would have to be a good course with interesting holes, at least 18. They would need to be regularly maintained,including mowing, course improvements, tree trimming, path grooming,etc... Also it would be good if they had a clubhouse where discs could be brought or rented. A snack shop & decent restroom facilities would also be preferred. I wouldn't mind paying $5/round or so to support this & it could reduce the number of people that don't make an effort to play seriously. I think the sport has now reached the popularity where it could become profitable to open more such facilities.

 

[Huff]

this is interesting to me. we have around 20 courses here in Maine (listed on this site) and of them all I believe only 1 is a free course, and its no wheres near me. We pay 4-6.00 for an all day pass on our courses. Most have some type of pro shop, and are fairly well maintained. And its only golfers out there

 

[iDisc]

pay to play is a "Con" because it is information that is helpful to sharing. it someone has the choice of going to courses they would choose the f2p one

 

[timg]

this is interesting to me. we have around 20 courses here in Maine (listed on this site) and of them all I believe only 1 is a free course, and its no wheres near me. We pay 4-6.00 for an all day pass on our courses. Most have some type of pro shop, and are fairly well maintained. And its only golfers out there

$4-$6 seems a bit steep if you like to bounce around courses like I do. I'll usually play the 3 or 4 near me in one day which would end up costing me $24 + gas to play in Maine. I guess it encourages multiple rounds at one course and the possibility that you'll buy some drinks there, etc.

pay to play is a "Con" because it is information that is helpful to sharing. it someone has the choice of going to courses they would choose the f2p one

If it's only a couple of bucks and one course is head and shoulders better than the other, I'd probably rather pay to play the good one.

 

[Huff]

$4-$6 seems a bit steep if you like to bounce around courses like I do. I'll usually play the 3 or 4 near me in one day which would end up costing me $24 + gas to play in Maine. I guess it encourages multiple rounds at one course and the possibility that you'll buy some drinks there, etc.

you're right, we do usually end up staying at one course for multiple rounds. We might hit 2 different courses in one day if its the weekend.

But these are courses on private land. Our choice is to pay to play, or not play since there anent any free courses. When its your only option...

I dont see it as a con at all. These people have taken valuable private land and taken up 15ish acres to make a course on it and open it up to the general public. And course design, baskets, maintenance, staff, gas etc are all things that cost $ to keep the course going. If we didnt pay, there wouldnt be a course to play on at all. Simple math really.

 

[sidewinding]

Pay to play is not a con and I'd rather pay $4.00 per gallon for gas than $1.00 per gallon. The less money you have the better off you are in the long run.

 

[DGtourist]

Pay to play is not a con and I'd rather pay $4.00 per gallon for gas than $1.00 per gallon. The less money you have the better off you are in the long run.

Give me your money and I'll help you with your long run outlook!

 

[Innovadude]

I have noticed that on the course reviews, virtually every course I have seen that has a "pay to play" fee has it listed as a "Con" in the review section, and that the scores tend to be somewhat reduced because of it. I find this somewhat odd and troubling.

Generally speaking, the cost to play these courses is less than $5 in my experience, often closer to $2 or $3. That is cheaper than a meal from McDonalds! Where else can you find any sort of entertainment at this level for this price? In virtually every case, this money goes for maintainence and improvement of the course, which is why pay to play courses such as Hudson Mills, in MI are some of the best in the US.

Seriously, as disc golfers, how cheap are we? I bet most of us are willing to shell out $20 for a new driver no problem, but when we are asked to help pay for the parks we use for our sport we label that as a negative? It makes no sense.

All courses are "pay to play" in some regard. Someone had to design and install the course, and the course also has to be maintined, whether it is through tax dollars, fundraising, or volunteers. Someone is paying. There is nothing wrong with asking the users of the course to help pay for it.

Pay to play courses are the only way that we are going to see new courses that are of extremely high quality, truly premium places to play such as the 48 holes in Hudson Mills I mentioned earlier. If the sport we love is going to continue to grow and evlove, we will need to become more welcoming to the pay to play concept.

Imagine how amazing a course could be if it had a modest fee of say $10-$15 for all you can play. I have no doubt in certain areas, you could maintain a profitable and absolutely beautiful 72 hole facility that rivals an actual golf course for this price. This is the direction I would like to see disc golf move towards, but it will only happen if disc golfers are willing to pay for it. We need to start seeing pay to play as a positive, and not a negative.

Hudson Mills was FREE until February, 2008. It is not great BECAUSE it is pay to play, that is a recent, slap-in-the-face addition.

 

[Doktor John]

I know many pay to play courses have monthly rates that break down the cost per day quite a bit...if I was in town all month, I'd buy a monthly pass for my home course...we also have a drawing every month for a free pass--every time you pay to play you get one ticket in the drawing...

 

[Disc_Pro]

Disc golf is growing and continues to grow, but it's not as big as other sports due to the lack of major sponsorship. Pay to play isn't going to cause the sport to 'break-through'. This sport needs major sponsorship, which will give us major exposure to the media.

 

[Marv Vega]

I don't mind paying a few bucks if the course is worth it. Most of the ones I've been to have been great courses and worth the money, but if it's just average then it's a waste of money. We play one pay to play course regularly that's kept up very well and have visited a couple of others this year that've been very good too.

 

[PhattD]

I'm amazed people are still arguing about this. Isn't it really very simple? Pay to play is a con for some people and not for others. If you are reviewing a pay to play course then give it points or take them away depending on how you feel about the cost to amenities ratio. Just explain why you rated it the way you did and then I will read it and laugh about how no one knows how to rate a course but me.