[Prodigy] PDGA Addresses Overweight Disc Issue

[The Hammer]

Can't they say "your disc is overweight" and until you can get the TD to approve it you either use it and risk getting dq'd or penalty? Therefore basically taking it out of my bag? Or am i mis interpreting the rule.

"801.02 Discs Used in Play

Discs used in play must meet all of the conditions set forth in the PDGA Technical Standards.

A disc that is questioned by another player or an official is illegal unless it is subsequently approved by the Director."

That could be done at any point in the round (and really this is the uproar over this overweight issue, flex issue, anything else really) HOPEFULLY players aren't dumb enough to open this pandora's box up, but think about it. A player is throwing like crap, someone else is shooting great. He can challenge the legality of their main disc they are using. Then that player has to get it approved by the TD. He can still use it, but at the risk of being DQ'd if he uses it the whole round and then it gets denied. Most would not use it, so as to avoid the risk of it being illegal and them being DQ'd.

I'm going to keep a pretty good eye on the memorial. I figure if nothing happens there, then nothing will happen anywhere else really. a good barometer of what is going to occur. Maybe i'm just ticked at the world the last few months so think everyone is evil and will take this action. When we know how little rules are even enforced on course (sadly, and a diff topic)

So whats to prevent me from saying that my competitors entire bag is overweight?

 

[ZAMson]

Please Note: PDGA Rounds are now RIPT-enabled

 

[garublador]

So whats to prevent me from saying that my competitors entire bag is overweight?

Nothing, in fact the response from the PDGA suggest that players should do that and force TD's to check every single aspect of everyone's discs to be sure that none of them are out of spec in any regard.

People who think players and TD's need to check this stuff haven't thought through what that really means. Weight and flex aren't the only aspect of an approved disc. TD's would have to have certified calipers that are calibrated periodically just to check that the flight plate is uniform (no tolerance) and less than 0.5cm, that the leading edge radius is >=1.6mm, that the inner rim depth is 5%-12% of the diameter, etc. The PDGA, and some people here, say I'm responsible for checking all of that stuff not only on my discs, but on all of my competitors' discs as well. I'd hate to be the TD that has to determine whether or not everyone's discs has a perfectly uniform flight plate thickness, but apparently these people who think it's my responsibility to weigh and check the flexibility of all of my discs are doing this to their discs to verify that they aren't cheating. That or they're either hypocrites and don't actually believe that it's our responsibility to verify that all of our discs pass tech standards or they haven't actually thought their argument through all the way.

The whole point of having an approval process is so that players and TD's don't have to do all that crap.

 

[pnasalberta]

some one once told me that discs can absorb water and in fact get heavier. I want to know if thats true because it would be a load of crap to get kicked out of a tourney because my disc got fatter with out my knowing.

 

[DanJon]

If you are dumb enough to challenge my discs, I'm going to challenge yours.

 

[LoPan12]

I believe the size of the gaps in the basket helped determine the minimum disc size at 21cm. The max weight standard was set in the early 80s based on the average value calculated from a bunch of people voting on what it should be. That average number came out to 8.3g/cm of diameter and it's remained there since then.

So you're saying the Max Weight "tech" standard, was arbitrarily determined by people voting? So what's to stop a new vote? Vote change it to 8.4g/cm, and suddenly all the 1-2g heavier discs are back in spec. That would include EVERY single Drone run in Z or CrFlx...since I doubt that i've ever had a legal one...

 

[Three Putt]

People who think players and TD's need to check this stuff haven't thought through what that really means.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[smyith]

I believe the size of the gaps in the basket helped determine the minimum disc size at 21cm. The max weight standard was set in the early 80s based on the average value calculated from a bunch of people voting on what it should be. That average number came out to 8.3g/cm of diameter and it's remained there since then.

So then why can't it be changed? An arbitrary number portrayed as a safety measure is BS! If it is actually intended as a safety measure then a STUDY, not a vote, should be made to figure out the appropriate standard.
This also makes me suspicious about the other tech standards. Was the flex number created arbitrarily? Stuff like this makes the PDGA look like a hack organization.

If the player knows the disc is overweight (marked 180g, max is 176) then it is the players responsibility. All the manufacturer would have to do is take the one additional step in there molding process of weighing each and every disc and marking the actual weight. They wouldn't even have to scrap any, nothing says they can't sell a 180g wizard. You just can't use it in a PDGA Tournament. If it's marked from the factory as overweight, then you as the player have the responsibility to buy discs that are legal for your purposes.

This I agree with. If the "true" weights are put on the discs then it would be 100% up to the players to comply. If the proper marking device is used then wiping it away would be meaningless, not only could you not fully remove it but the disc would have to age significantly for it to fade or "rub" off. I am as cynical as anyone but you have to be logical about it too....Discette.

My issue is one of principal, why is all the responsibility put on the one party who is actually spending their money and not making any money? The PDGA is paid for approval. The manufacturer is paid to make discs. The store is paid when they sell discs. All 3 of these businesses make money, and all 3 on occasion turn a blind eye to quality control problems to avoid losing money, ie scrap, returns, rejections, pulling approval. Then they want to push the blame, penalties and disqualifications onto the player only. That is wrong. :thmbdown:

As a customer I am purchasing a "PDGA Approved" disc. Realistically if the disc does not comply to the Approved Standards wouldn't that make their claim False Advertising? Thus giving way for a legitimate lawsuit? Realistically, affecting their pocket book is the only way to get a corporation to care.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The disc weight maximums have no more to do with safety than the max weight allowed on a golf ball. The weight maximums for both DG and BG simply establish a standard reference for consistent playing equipment. Same with the flex standard. It's more about using materials for discs that have a similar range of characteristics than safety specifically. It's true that if direct safety claims were ever made then more rigorous testing would have been required. In the case of the Japanese originally setting the 150 class and now 160 class, their logic was that lighter is still relatively safer than heavier without any data being collected. But again, no safety claims have been made.

 

[smyith]

The safety thing has been portrayed by many, including those with influence. So whether or not it is the real reason it is still used.
Also, if the number was created in the 80s when plastic was in its infancy, shouldn't it be re-addressed?

Side Question:
Where did the flex test number come from?

 

[Cgkdisc]

I doubt you've heard an official statement from any PDGA authority directly stating any specs are specifically about safety. It's a consideration but it's a formal claim that can't be made without elaborate testing let alone an expensive manufacturer compliance program.

I wasn't involved with the sport until 5-6 years after those specs were set. The flex test was created as a pretty simple method that could be done consistently. I'll check with Stork to see how they decided the limit value.

The specs have been revisted at times over the years. Note that all of the current discussion and issues aren't about the actual specs, but manufacturers actually providing products that consistently meet them. It doesn't matter where you draw the spec lines. If it's a performance related spec, manufacturers are going to want to produce a lot of product right near those lines because players want them and retailers want to sell them.

 

[The Hammer]

Nothing, in fact the response from the PDGA suggest that players should do that and force TD's to check every single aspect of everyone's discs to be sure that none of them are out of spec in any regard.

People who think players and TD's need to check this stuff haven't thought through what that really means. Weight and flex aren't the only aspect of an approved disc. TD's would have to have certified calipers that are calibrated periodically just to check that the flight plate is uniform (no tolerance) and less than 0.5cm, that the leading edge radius is >=1.6mm, that the inner rim depth is 5%-12% of the diameter, etc. The PDGA, and some people here, say I'm responsible for checking all of that stuff not only on my discs, but on all of my competitors' discs as well. I'd hate to be the TD that has to determine whether or not everyone's discs has a perfectly uniform flight plate thickness, but apparently these people who think it's my responsibility to weigh and check the flexibility of all of my discs are doing tghis to their discs to verify that they aren't cheating. That or they're either hypocrites and don't actually believe that it's our responsibility to verify that all of our discs pass tech standards or they haven't actually thought their argument through all the way.

The whole point of having an approval process is so that players and TD's don't have to do all that crap.

:clap:

 

[DiscOh]

My mind is blown and trust is shattered. You mean to tell me: Every weight on a disc is written by hand and they don't weigh every disc by hand? Why take the time to write each one down?
How do they mold them and know the weights? I'm ignorant in the way the process works.

 

[smyith]

My mind is blown and trust is shattered. You mean to tell me: Every weight on a disc is written by hand and they don't weigh every disc by hand? Why take the time to write each one down?
How do they mold them and know the weights? I'm ignorant in the way the process works.

DD is just printing the weight on there....not even writing.

 

[tbird888]

DD is just printing the weight on there....not even writing.

That's a Lat thing.

 

[urwatuh8]

Dishonest players would simply wipe off the ink or take off the weight sticker.

I thought you were required to remove stickers to use discs in a PDGA event?

 

[discreid]

I thought you were required to remove stickers to use discs in a PDGA event?

Stickers from the manufacturer are ok to leave on.