gingerandhoney
Birdie Member
that was.... weird
What Shallows wrote there is not untrue.
It is in large part why and how the #respectHERgame movement got started a few years ago, by women being sexualised and ridiculed and patronised over.
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that was.... weird
I wouldn't say that's a fair paraphrase of the majority view on gender. Nor would I presume all folks agree on something like "moral good".
I just think women generally and Natalie Ryan in particular would be happier if she was allowed to play FPO.
Referencing nazi Germany in comparison to ****ing disc golf has ruined any credibility you had.I - your resident transgender woman, who'd be directly affected by any decision the Board would take, notwithstanding I am one of the 7 Board members myself - want to chime in on the three reasons Arisugawa mentioned as it effectively being a ban, if transgender women were no longer allowed to compete in gender-based divisions.
And no, I am not speculating about the possible outcomes of what the discussion would lead to, at our Fall Summit in two weeks.
I've also played out this 'what if' scenario of a de facto ban in my head...
It's a nightmare that I wouldn't wish on anyone.
A quick premise on the geographical aspect of how this discussion plays out in the public domain (not just on dgcr bit anywhere on social media), this discussion and the stances that are taken, are strictly commanded by the hyper polarised theo/socio/political landscape that the USA has turned into (cue the outrage over the survey questions asking about on which side of the line people stand on this).
This sport and the PDGA however, need to keep in mind that the sport and governance are global. The world's views on this are not that of the USA.
I am not saying that outside of the USA it's all okay (we have enough issues of our own), but discounting my participation to any discussion on the topic, I'd say that well over 98% of the participants chiming in on the topic are USA based.
Hypothesising there'd be a ban, it'd be people deciding which bathroom I were forced to use, all over again.
Which water fountain I'd be forced to use, all over again.
And I'd effectively be forced to start wearing a yellow star (with a pink triangle) on my disc golf outfit when I play.
Yes, I am effectively doing a Godwin's Law here, but it needs to be done, because what is being proposed be put into effect is just that. This time it's just a different marginalised group of people.
Any transgender woman continuing playing would be making herself terribly visible, in a division where she'd stands out like a sore thumb. For the ones like Natalie, Chloe, and myself, we'd not be outing ourselves more than we already did, but for all the ones who live in stealth (usually out of fear for their safety), they'd be forced to either remove themselves from the sport, or out themselves.
With every single throw, I'd be harshly reminded that I am not considered a woman.
While in every aspect of my life I am a woman; visually, legally, emotionally, sexually.
And all of that will be solely based on whether or not I had a penis at birth; while it's actually not proven I ever was a man in the biological sense.
More than being ridiculed, I'd be actively and openly ostracised, whilst forcibly put on display, shamed, for being ostracised (no, that's not a contradiction).
It can already be seen in USA states where transgender girls and women are effectively banned from competing in the division that matches the gender they experience, cisgender women and girls are increasingly (and increasingly violently) being accused of secretly being transgender because they perform better than the accuser, and don't look as feminine as the accuser.
And yes, that already happens in disc golf too.
I know of four cisgender women who have been accused of being transgender, Ella Hansen being the most recent.
With a ban, it effectively allows anyone to accuse any cisgender woman of being transgender.
I hear a lot of people talking about how allowing transgender women in gender-based divisions is hurting women's sports . Wait til you see what happens when transgender women are banned, and any cisgender woman may potentially be accused of being transgender too.
And yes, Arigusawa mentioned it, the ability to cash could be a concern for some.
But while it does perhaps allow that person (Natalie Ryan being the most visible) to pay their rent playing disc golf (and as such, a ban would be an exogenous disruption to their professional career and livelihood), it is absolutely preposterous to assume a transgender woman would not want to play in mixed divisions because of not being able to finish above the cash line.
That is straight from the "transgender women transition to get a competitive advantage" playbook.
Even if I would be (rarely or consistently) place above the cash line that would absolutely not be on my mind when playing disc golf. At all.
A quick look at my disc golf career since may 2019, when I competed in gender-based divisions for the first time, I cashed twice out of 28 tournaments, for a career total of $183.
You could say: "well Laura, it's easy to say for you, because you don't cash anyway", but you'd be wrong, simply because winning has never ever been a motivation in playing sports. My only motivator with regards to my performance is strictly related to "beating my personal best".
In disc golf that translates to: attempting to play above my player rating, and attempt to improve my player rating.
In my post I absolutely did not insinuate that someone would want to do this job in a mediocre fashion. I was actually quite clear to provide a different perspective that also involved aspiring to be great, please reread following "b)" in my post. And please take time to read my entire response to you before engaging me in the future.So why have a job to be mediocre? I don't understand that mindset. I strive to be the best paramedic out there. I don't wanna come in and do bare minimum and earn a pay check. I want to be the best. Being the best provides the best patient care. It should be applied to all jobs.
I don't fault the typo, or that they haven't discussed the findings of a report they haven't received yet. I fault the casual admission that there has been zero discussion or planning on this, even though among the community it has been the only policy issue being talked about, since DGLO. It's doubly damning, considering Laura sparked similar controversy herself when she won AM Worlds, so she knows first hand that this is an issue that people will make a giant fuss over.
What has the PDGA board been doing, if not discussing the most talked about policy issue in the entire competitive disc golf world?
Nope.Referencing nazi Germany in comparison to ****ing disc golf has ruined any credibility you had.
Perhaps I should clarify I mean vulnerability in a more expansive way, not strictly in a physical or predatory (as jenb excitedly details) way. I think vulnerability is a virtue we should all cultivate, including men. Though I think it's a trait that women seem to have deeper capacity for.
Instead of women perhaps having deeper capacity for it, men are actively taught not to be vulnerable.
Boys don't cry / don't be a sissy / you're such a girl / stop being such a girl, suck it up.
Need I go on?
As for me being white; you're factually incorrect. I am not as white as you claim I am. (And no, I am not pulling an Elizabeth Warren here)
Please don't make assumptions like that.
The only thing you happen to be right on, is that I am not of African American descent. Had I lived there and then in the USA, I may have been allowed to use the water fountains that were intended for white people; grandparents on both maternal and paternal side were not 'white enough', while not being considered "black" either, they were most definitely "colored", so they may have had to use the "colored" fountains as well.
I do - loudly - oppose the PDGA's inaction as one of the seven Board members; instead imploring other roads be taken that do actually protect the ones at harm.
But let's turn it around, and I'll listen to what you say and suggest I do as a Board member in this regard. The floor is yours.
And I still have about two weeks to finalise my position presentation at the Fall Summit; it's been a full time job getting that done, and still is.
The fact that you interpret & extrapolate what I said as being valid for all or most transgender women is on you, not on me.
I totally understand and accept that if the Board were to decide against transgender participation it will not be the cisgender men being virtually hung, but that it will be me who gets that honour. Ironically, I'd then be hung by the very people who voted for me to protect their rights; rather than by those who voted to get me off the Board in the first place).
How do you think my view is why the trans community has no faith in the BoD? Please explain.
As for the "and thus pay you so much more money", who is "you" here? Is that PDGA receiving membership and tournament player fees?
Do you think that the PDGA would decide on a ban because the angry cisgender men scream louder (and bring in more fees to the PDGA) than the transgender women could?
That is not a Board I am a member of. Nor want to be. I am a Board member because I believe in the good I can achieve; not in the revenue I can (help) generate.
How is it you didn't cash, when you took 1st place in 7 tournaments, and 2nd place in 2 more, in FPO, in 2019? And another 1st in 2020, in the only event you played? And a further 8 1st places in 2021? And 3 more 1sts and a 2nd in 2022?
Are you turning down cash when you win, were the payouts not reported for all of those tournaments, or is the PDGA genuinely allowing sanctioned events to not pay out their winners in FPO?
Referencing nazi Germany in comparison to ****ing disc golf has ruined any credibility you had.
Unreal.
If you consider her statements to be hyperbolic, maybe you should engage the rationales provided in those posts instead of engaging in completely empty hyperbole yourself.Just skimming this dumpster fire I picked up Jim Crow and Nazi references. Someone is obviously the most persecuted person since Jesus himself.
Then be present. Be loud. Be all of the things an activist should be. The silence is deafening.
Referencing nazi Germany in comparison to ****ing disc golf has ruined any credibility you had.
Unreal.
If you consider her statements to be hyperbolic, maybe you should engage the rationales provided in those posts instead of engaging in completely empty hyperbole yourself.
* Do do = Do theyDo do know all of the insidious things that are being written for being intentionally hurtful? Clearly not. I do try to help educate staff and Board there, but I can only report and clarify on what I see.
Several of the PDGA Staff pretty much have a full time job now checking social media responses and deleting hateful comments where and when they see them.
Got it, you've got nothing.Exactly what this thread needs, more hyperbole.
I'd need a bit more of a reward than a couple of "nices" from random internet dudes to move beyond skimming and into engaging the empty rationales expressed here.
Hopefully it will just kill the love and respect for the PDGA and particular board members.
Laura- what consideration is being given the concept that an effective ban is likely illegal in a number of places? (Lana Lawless vs LPGA in California as precedent) It seems to me that regardless of where one sides on the issue at hand it would be ill considered for the PDGA to ask its volunteer tournament directors to violate the law in running events.