"pDGA"?

[jrawk]

You do more for the sport than just about anyone I know. Do you consider the PDGA to be unprofessional to the point of mockery?

sometimes a grass-roots organization can attempt to be overly professional to the point of mockery.

 

[walker139]

Typical of us Americans to bash the very organization that is there to serve our own sport. Whatever anyones opinion, we are all here because of our enjoyment for the game of disc golf. Carry yourself with repect on the course and in your actions for the sport, eventually the reflection will shine brightly for all to see. This is how progress comes about, self action. How can the outsiders of Disc Golf take it seriously if we act childish and vain? This is a great game for world we live in, let's show everyone how great it really could be.

 

[Dave242]

MJ - is that you all back from the dead and stuff?

 

[John Rock]

Neither Mike K nor myself fit your mold- there are plenty of folks who have done more for disc golf in their respective areas than the ORG has who are tired of the same old self serving same old from the ORG, whether they refer to it as pDGA or not.

I believe I'm in this group. There was no pDGA presence here when I started (joined in 1988), and there certainly were NO established courses anywhere close. What we have now is due to a lot of work by myself and a small handful of volunteers.

I have been a steady supporter of the org since the beginning of my membership, even taking Mike K. to task when he started shaking up the pDGA message board. I couldn't believe anyone would have such a distrust in an assoc. they were a longtime member of. I have been a multi-year supporter of the ACE CLUB donation. I rallied for membership in the org to anyone here in my area who wanted to listen, and many have since joined, though not many have kept up with renewals. For me, it is getting more and more difficult for me to justify my membership since I'm getting charged more than most other members (remember: PRO players must pay $75 to stay current), even though my efforts with tournaments and new members result in $$$ going to Augusta, GA.

The 2008 year for the pDGA administration is when I finally woke up to see the reality of poor administration for our org. Anyone remember the mag flop? The very first post on the org mess board by the mag editors contained a style of writing that the newly elected/appointed Communications Director had only that very morning banned from the message board. So I pointed it out only to raise the ire of the admin. and their sheep. Then the memberships packs never got delivered to many, many members (I didn't get mine until the end of December) even though several calls and emails to the office were answered by "They've been sent, you should get yours any day now".

My problem with the org is the administration. In my opinion we've got the wrong person at the top.

 

[notapro]

Dave Dunipace?

 

[prerube]

Good post john rock
Do you think the PDGA is doing more harm than good?
Do you think they are doing anything different than similar sized organizations with a similar budget?

 

[Dave242]

My problem with the org is the administration. In my opinion we've got the wrong person at the top.

The administration of tournament sanctioning, results reporting, and ratings updates seems much improved....not that it was ever too bad. This from someone who is on the outside looking in, but was intimately involved several years ago. This is a huge administrative undertaking that the PDGA seems to be excelling at.

Seems like the only real recurring administration complaint is membership fulfillment. Didn't I read somewhere that this was going to pulled in-house by the PDGA?

BTW, here is the line from the budget from here (11-12_PDGA_Financial_Summary_Public.pdf)
2012 Budget: $210,000 -- Receive process & fulfill memberships, merchandise, event packages, promo & info kits, direct mails, incl supplies, postage, fees charged

 

[smyith]

My problem with the org is the administration. In my opinion we've got the wrong person at the top.

theo?

Perhaps it's not all that many people who want changes, or at least major changes. It's easy to be misled by forum rhetoric. Radicals running for the BOD haven't received a lot of support, especially when you consider that they consolidate the disgruntled vote, while the rest of the votes are spread among a slate of mainstream candidates. And the rest of the membership doesn't vote, ceding their choice to the status quo.

well considering most of the voters are americans, it doesn't surprise me that name recognition wins out. i also think that most people don't take the time to consider how much better/worse the pDGA could be with other candidates in there. Kind of the "I don't see any problems (yet), so they must be doing a good job."
Voting as a privlidge has lost its worth these days, and i think it is in part to people having got used to choosing between a turd sandwhich and a dbag. so people just don't care now.

^
Pains me to say this, but this is one item that I would be in agreement with Mr. Kernan on. I think its time for the PDGA to reconsider its arrangement with Breiner when people are getting their membership cards and rulebooks in July, which they paid for in January.

Not only that but they no longer get a mini with their pDGA number on it. Just says member now....that really peeved me off to see my friends get that and the total look of disappointment on their face. They finally get a membership wait months to get it, excitedly open it, and then get a half-@$$ed mini, a terrible tabloid, and dumb trinkets. But membership cost has gone up? And you can't even order a mini with your number on it? The magazine is worthless, the old mag (pre 2006ish I think...honestly dont remember the name) was full of great advice and interesting stories. Not just a bunch of captions and photos, with the only consistent worth being Houck's articles.
I just have a hard time believing this can't be done by someone else or have it done in house for a better cost and value. Cause as it is now, the ONLY reason I renew my membership is because I play more than 5 tournaments a year and compete in A tiers....essentially all I want to avoid is the $10 fee (still don't see the justification for this being raised from $5).

 

[DavidSauls]

Seems like the only real recurring administration complaint is membership fulfillment. Didn't I read somewhere that this was going to pulled in-house by the PDGA?

Well, money---the amount of individual fees, the total budget, and doubting whether that total budget is well spent---is probably among the complaints, too.

 

[DavidSauls]

well considering most of the voters are americans, it doesn't surprise me that name recognition wins out. i also think that most people don't take the time to consider how much better/worse the pDGA could be with other candidates in there. Kind of the "I don't see any problems (yet), so they must be doing a good job."
Voting as a privlidge has lost its worth these days, and i think it is in part to people having got used to choosing between a turd sandwhich and a dbag. so people just don't care now.

Ah, the old If they don't vote like me they must be idiots argument.

And the No Good Choice argument, though people opposed to the status quo have run and mostly lost, and other detractors are free to run, as well.

 

[Dave242]

Well, money---the amount of individual fees, the total budget, and doubting whether that total budget is well spent---is probably among the complaints, too.

No doubt that those are recurring complaints too. I was responding to John Rock's specific comment/conclusion that administration was the problem.

Budget decisions are different from executing the administration of a budget.

Bottom line, I think other than membership fulfillment the PDGA runs very smoothly. In fact, I will say that they do a heroic job of collecting data from TDs, sanitizing it, and publishing it. Have you ever happened to notice the "quality" of work that many TDs produce?

 

[smyith]

Ah, the old If they don't vote like me they must be idiots argument.

:wall:
i never said that. nor implied it. the only thing i implied is that i wish people would do some research before making a decision that affects their and other lives. I could care less who someone votes for as long as they have more than a reason of "they look pretty" or "cause its the only name i recognized"

And the No Good Choice argument, though people opposed to the status quo have run and mostly lost, and other detractors are free to run, as well.

i wasnt referring to the pDGA in this one. i was making a comment on the state of american politics in general as well as making a south park reference.

truly amazes me how much America has degraded in political aptitude and care. sad how little people know but those same people want to speak the loudest. but thats a whole other topic.

 

[smyith]

Bottom line, I think other than membership fulfillment the PDGA runs very smoothly. In fact, I will say that they do a heroic job of collecting data from TDs, sanitizing it, and publishing it. Have you ever happened to notice the "quality" of work that many TDs produce?

interesting

 

[BgWvDave]

Bottom line, I think other than membership fulfillment the PDGA runs very smoothly.

I had an issue with my membership renewal this year. While going back and forth with Sara she did say that the PDGA is considering taking over the fulfillment process as early as next year.

 

[biscoe]

I believe I'm in this group. There was no pDGA presence here when I started (joined in 1988), and there certainly were NO established courses anywhere close. What we have now is due to a lot of work by myself and a small handful of volunteers.

I have been a steady supporter of the org since the beginning of my membership, even taking Mike K. to task when he started shaking up the pDGA message board. I couldn't believe anyone would have such a distrust in an assoc. they were a longtime member of. I have been a multi-year supporter of the ACE CLUB donation. I rallied for membership in the org to anyone here in my area who wanted to listen, and many have since joined, though not many have kept up with renewals. For me, it is getting more and more difficult for me to justify my membership since I'm getting charged more than most other members (remember: PRO players must pay $75 to stay current), even though my efforts with tournaments and new members result in $$$ going to Augusta, GA.

The 2008 year for the pDGA administration is when I finally woke up to see the reality of poor administration for our org. Anyone remember the mag flop? The very first post on the org mess board by the mag editors contained a style of writing that the newly elected/appointed Communications Director had only that very morning banned from the message board. So I pointed it out only to raise the ire of the admin. and their sheep. Then the memberships packs never got delivered to many, many members (I didn't get mine until the end of December) even though several calls and emails to the office were answered by "They've been sent, you should get yours any day now".

My problem with the org is the administration. In my opinion we've got the wrong person at the top.

ding ding ding we have a winner!!!

 

[biscoe]

No doubt that those are recurring complaints too. I was responding to John Rock's specific comment/conclusion that administration was the problem.

Budget decisions are different from executing the administration of a budget.

Bottom line, I think other than membership fulfillment the PDGA runs very smoothly. In fact, I will say that they do a heroic job of collecting data from TDs, sanitizing it, and publishing it. Have you ever happened to notice the "quality" of work that many TDs produce?

it's an excel spreadsheet- once the template was created dumping it into a database is not rocket science. i actually agree though that results reporting is one of the things they handle fairly well.

they also do a good job on allowing td's choice on how to run their events and in selling reasonably priced insurance to events.

the office staff is friendly and actually gives a damn about what they do.

on the other hand their website has been a disaster for years. they have micromanaged their forum on said website to death. their fulfillment services suck. they continue to throw money at pie in the sky crap such as sportsloop and dgptv and continue to bleed what is more or less the same old player base for more money to do so.

what finally broke the deal for me is that they continue to refuse to offer a low cost membership option for people who do not play many/any events with the expectation that people such as john rock and myself will continue to fork over $75 each year in the name of "growing the sport".

 

[DavidSauls]

:wall:
i never said that. nor implied it. the only thing i implied is that i wish people would do some research before making a decision that affects their and other lives. I could care less who someone votes for as long as they have more than a reason of "they look pretty" or "cause its the only name i recognized"


i wasnt referring to the pDGA in this one. i was making a comment on the state of american politics in general as well as making a south park reference.

truly amazes me how much America has degraded in political aptitude and care. sad how little people know but those same people want to speak the loudest. but thats a whole other topic.

In which case, I misread your post, and apologize.

 

[steveganz]

results reporting is one of the things they handle fairly well.

Thanks, man. I'll pass that along to the rest of the staff.

the office staff is friendly and actually gives a damn about what they do.

QFT

on the other hand their website has been a disaster for years.

Whoa, hey, whoa, hey! Easy there, pal. It's been over a year and a half SINCE the website has been a disaster. Starting in early 2012, countless and continuous improvements have been made. Even in the face of record setting traffic, the site has never performed better than it does right now. And the hits just keep on coming. Stay tuned for some exciting developments over the next few months.

they have micromanaged their forum on said website to death.

Can't argue with that. That thing was beyond life support when I arrived. The moderators are all gone now if anyone cares.

 

[Dave242]

it's an excel spreadsheet- once the template was created dumping it into a database is not rocket science. i actually agree though that results reporting is one of the things they handle fairly well.

Well it is a little more complicated than that when you consider different divisions playing different layouts (and a myriad of different event configurations), the TD report in its entirety, and uploading unofficial scores during/after the event. I helped quite a few TDs/events where they did not have Excel or the understanding how to use it properly (mangling formats/formulas, etc).

No slight at all on the TDs is meant, but for a lot of people spreadsheets and websites are not the tools of their trade. It does seem a little like rocket surgery to many folks. I cannot imagine what these reports would have looked like had I not given my assistance....and I have talked to folks at the PDGA and am aware that they get plenty of data that is not very pretty. It takes a ton of time to make sense of that.....and have you noticed how many events there are per week?

 

[ZAMson]

Whoa, hey, whoa, hey! Easy there, pal. It's been over a year and a half SINCE the website has been a disaster. Starting in early 2012, countless and continuous improvements have been made. Even in the face of record setting traffic, the site has never performed better than it does right now. And the hits just keep on coming. Stay tuned for some exciting developments over the next few months.

Legit -- I think you've done a great job, especially considering what you were given to fix. I'm sure there are hundreds of tweaks behind the scenes that we don't consciously appreciate, but contribute to the site running well. :clap: