Physical tests we can perform to pinpoint areas to work on for clean/healthy form?

[timothy42b]

Lat test is interesting. I can put both my hands on the wall palms out. I don't know what that means but it felt like a nice stretch.

I can't even get my thumbs to the wall.

So the question for me is how to adjust my form to accomodate thoracic inflexibility. (which doesn't rule out trying to improve it, but at 70 that's a slow process if even possible)

The forehand throw layback is three parts, per Ben at Tread Athletics. Thoracic extension, shoulder external rotation, scapular retraction. Eagle really maxes it out but the big throwers all do well, look at Sheldon.

So thinking out loud - if I can't lay back enough, and throwing bent will destroy an elbow, how can I get to release point if I can't spiral out like a pitcher? Maybe watching some softball pitchers will help.

I'm probably using the wrong terms, but I'm thinking about how to adjust form for what my body can't or won't do.

 

[ninjabq]

So what does it mean if I can't get my thumbs closer than 1 foot from the wall? :doh:

 

[timothy42b]

So what does it mean if I can't get my thumbs closer than 1 foot from the wall? :doh:

Might look at this one:

 

[TiltedFlipCurves]

So as far as hips I have 100% external but 37% internal, is that going to be a problem?

 

[Brychanus]

So what does it mean if I can't get my thumbs closer than 1 foot from the wall? :doh:

Can also consider basing some form work off models like Feldberg which IMO and I know SW's too is always good to do. There's a reason the guy is still cruising and crushing in his late 40s even with significant shoulder mobility issues. IMHO It's going to be a shame when his form is mostly forgotten to the up and coming golfers.

So as far as hips I have 100% external but 37% internal, is that going to be a problem?

I think it depends on whether it's a flexibility issue or a fundamental anatomical limit (bone/muscle structure etc). In general you want to look at more externally rotated ("duck footed") pros as form models.

 

[beverlytobe]

I can't even get my thumbs to the wall.

So the question for me is how to adjust my form to accomodate thoracic inflexibility. (which doesn't rule out trying to improve it, but at 70 that's a slow process if even possible)

The forehand throw layback is three parts, per Ben at Tread Athletics. Thoracic extension, shoulder external rotation, scapular retraction. Eagle really maxes it out but the big throwers all do well, look at Sheldon.

So thinking out loud - if I can't lay back enough, and throwing bent will destroy an elbow, how can I get to release point if I can't spiral out like a pitcher? Maybe watching some softball pitchers will help.

I'm probably using the wrong terms, but I'm thinking about how to adjust form for what my body can't or won't do.

Oh, I've also struggled with thoracic inflexibility. I agree that it can be a challenge for forehand throws, but there are still things you can do to improve your throw.

The most important for me was to join a discourse community that supported me on my recovery way.

And this also helped me: try focusing on shoulder external rotation and scapular retraction, and use a lower-power throw with a lighter disc. You can also watch softball pitchers for inspiration

Best of luck,
Beverly

 

[beverlytobe]

As a fellow headcase passing his physical prime, it's important to know that bodies can still improve late into life. Just more slowly, and the ceiling creeps down at different rates for different people. Per your post above, I'm mostly reacting with:

1. Be careful not to confuse individual anatomical limits with pathology. There are real differences in connective tissue composition, bone structure, etc. I think finding the distinction between your own anatomy & pathology is pretty important. If you try to "rehab" anatomy it's probably steering you wrong.

2. Weaknesses & limiting form: I'm very happy I followed SW/seabas philosophy to learn & work in the full range of motion. I do think that if you don't learn the form in a full range of motion (i.e., however your body achieves that), there are limits you're imposing on your ceiling & a tax you are putting somewhere on your kinetic chain that you could otherwise improve. I do think that specific limitations to my legs & injury history have been a large barrier to progress. The solution is still the same - work on gains, and if I encounter limits or pain slow down to work on that issue. Learning the long game of patience has been the hardest part for me.

3. Expectations: I think it's healthy to have clear, reasonable goals you can achieve in weeks or months that are supported by evidence. You can also have aspirational goals that you suspect might be too hard to achieve, but keep you motivated to find whatever ceiling you have. The trick there is not demotivating yourself if the road to the aspirational goal is longer than you expected, or indeed impossible.

4. A point about standstill and x-step that is worth mentioning:

Learning a full range of motion in standstills (Figure 8 standstill) is a brilliant way to address the above issues. Another thing to keep in mind is that as you add momentum and force in the x-step (let's call it 20%), there's just that much more load going through the system. On https://writingbros.com/essay-examples/discourse-community/ I explore a discourse community of personal trainers and fitness instructors. Working on optimizing the x-step is harder, and I notice a bigger impact effect on my body even as I'm moving better - simple physics of adding more force to an extent. I was basically forced to space work on it out with a few rest days in between to make sure I am getting full recovery cycles.

So from a longevity perspective I've been very pleased to develop a standstill that can reach pretty much any non-touring pro level hole in my vicinity. But there's a threshold where my body is throwing faster, and the added impact at that threshold lengthens recovery time, and I am still building resilience in the long run. Finding that "sweet spot" of making progress without needing to shut down or getting hurt is a really tough balance. It's only tougher if you're learning when older w/ less resilience to begin with.

I agree that it's important to be realistic about our physical limitations as we age, but I also think it's important to set challenging goals and work hard to achieve them.

I think you're right to be concerned about the impact of adding more force to your throws, but I also think that you can still make progress by focusing on developing a full range of motion in your standstill and improving your core strength.

I know it's not easy to find the right balance - I have problems on my own way, but I remember that it's worth it to keep trying.

 

[jupiterboy]

One thing to pay attention to is where do you get sore. That's going to tell you something about how you are throwing.

I've got some arthritis and my grip is the first thing to go. My fingers swell up a little so I can't really make a fist and then I know I'm in for a bunch of early-release garbage.

But yeah, consistency is always the ideal you never quite grasp.

Also, I'm gaining mobility still in my third season. Things are moving that were not moving much in the beginning.

 

[blayed]

I think it depends on whether it's a flexibility issue or a fundamental anatomical limit (bone/muscle structure etc). In general you want to look at more externally rotated ("duck footed") pros as form models.

This is an interesting concept I haven't thought of. What if we are super internal rotation dominant (I am super pigeon toed too) ... ostensibly I would want to look at pros who are IR dominant.

Which pros are more ER dominant and which are more IR dominant? And which are more neutral?

 

[Thediscgolferguy]

This is an interesting concept I haven't thought of. What if we are super internal rotation dominant (I am super pigeon toed too) ... ostensibly I would want to look at pros who are IR dominant.

Which pros are more ER dominant and which are more IR dominant? And which are more neutral?

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137173&page=3

 

[Brychanus]

This is an interesting concept I haven't thought of. What if we are super internal rotation dominant (I am super pigeon toed too) ... ostensibly I would want to look at pros who are IR dominant.

Which pros are more ER dominant and which are more IR dominant? And which are more neutral?

for you would start with where tdgg linked. I do think it's probably a good idea to consolidate/revive body type chatter into a single thread because it's scattered all over the place. I am still learning things constantly in this area.