Player Preference for Sanctioned Events

[puck'n'disc5]

Print a Chik-Fil-A voucher on a mini and take it out of the pro purse for the trifecta.

edit: OR PUT IT ON A WHITE COTTON MEN'S XL UNDERSHIRT

Thank Popeye's chicken sandwich though.....

 

[puck'n'disc5]

I think the younger crowd you get for Open and Advanced probably like three day tee time events, but I hate them.

Mid Am did 3 rounds Fri/Sat/Sun at Harmony Bends for Open/Advanced and everybody else did 2 Sat/1 Sun at AO except rec and Jrs that only played two rounds. It's problematic for Columbia since everybody wants to play Harmony Bends, but in St. Louis with no real standout course that people will be mad about not playing I think the Mid Am format has real potential. That keeps somebody like me from needing to commit to a day off to play. For people who travel with Open/Adv people they can spectate or practice on Friday. Mid Am has really bumped up in profile here in the last few years, so I'd keep an eye on what they are doing.

You have the Carrollton/Sioux/JB three headed monster so I'd use all three. Your problem is how far away JB is, how remote Sioux is and the travel issues they create. I'd rather play any of them twice before I'd want to play Sioux and JB in the same day. So you are kinda damned if you do/damned if you don't. You kinda have to mix in Endicott or Wilmore for travel reasons, which is a lot of course to get ready.

I really wouldn't mind a Sioux/Endicott or Carrollton/Endicot Saturday and then JB Sunday, or a JB/Wilmore Saturday and Sioux or Carrollton on Sunday, though. I think you can sell those kind of combos to Int/Rec/Ad Masters/Jr's and keep them happy.

300ish miles; the road trip is basically anyplace where we can leave at midnight and be there in time for check in Sat morning.

Really it's courses, which is bad for St. Louis. St. Louis has a lot of really good courses but no great courses. The variety there is really good, but there is no real "must play" course there. That's another point in favor of figuring out the travel hassle using a lot of courses, as it's the amount of good courses that is the strength of the scene.

DX Roc. I'm pretty easy that way.

It's actually intangible stuff outside your control. Being on a card with decent guys, good weather, stuff like that makes it more enjoyable. Bad weather/douchebags are also memorable, but you don't want to make those memories.

Really just having staff at all the courses prepared to deal with weirdness is the best you can do. Anecdotally that's the biggest reason I hear from people here about why they don't go to St. Louis, that reputation the scene has for not dealing with people who are douchebags and just letting them get away with it. It may or may not be a fair reputation, but out here in the boonies that's what I hear.

Your welcome.

JB just got the approval for another 18 hole course! :clap:

 

[filobedo]

As an MA60 who actually did travel to play last year, part of the appeal was to play multiple courses. So don't put us on the same ones we played this year.

If there are to be two rounds in one day, they'd better be at the same course with lunch provided or really convenient. (And not at one of those way out of town).

There is nothing I would rather have in a player's pack than NOTHING. I don't need coupons forced on me. No one should ever give out stickers (which mostly get attached to baskets). I won't wear that shirt. I don't throw max weight anything. Not everyone drinks alcohol (well, not everyone who lives elsewhere than STL). I won't drive to a local shop to cash in any sized voucher, or worse, pay shipping for my "paid for" discs.

Maybe you could raise funds to replace some of those old baskets and call my "donation" to that fund the player's pack.

If someone wants to foist ads, souvenirs, trophies, or coupons on me, the only tolerable medium would be to print them on minis.

Maybe have the player's party at a vape shop for the hipster disc golfers with an Arcade Fire or Radiohead cover band, lol.

 

[Smigles]

I'm collecting data for an upcoming A-Tier and would like the format to be as player-oriented as possible so we can plan within the preferences of our target audience. If you do not play sanctioned events, feel free to provide your reason(s) why.

Specifically:

1. Would you prefer to play 3 rounds (Fri, Sat, Sun) or 4 (Fri, Sat 1, Sat 2, Sun)

3

2. Would you prefer to play 1 course, 2 courses, or a new course each round?

More courses means more preparing time. So i would say no more than 2, unless you are talking about the biggest events like Worlds.

3. How far are you willing to travel for an event?

I have been all over europe and even to Japan. So i guess around the globe?

4. What would entice you to put an event (outside your home town) on your calendar?

Great course / Big competition (as in Major tournaments) / beautiful places to visit near the course; general other activities that make it worth to turn the tournament trip into a one or two weeks holiday

5. What (specific) types of items do you like to see in player's packs?

PLEASE NO DISCS. I have my bag, i dont need new discs.

I am all for shirts, towels or lunch vouchers.

6. Based on the events you've attended, what makes them memorable (good or bad)?

Best thing by far is to have the players in one place, like renting one hotel for all the players to stay in. This immeadiatly gives a much more familiar atmosphere.

Thanks in advance for your input!

apparently i need to tipe outside the quote box as well or the message is too short

 

[Three Putt]

JB just got the approval for another 18 hole course! :clap:

I did see that.

I predict that when it is all over and done with it will be a fine course, but the process of designing it will become a boondoggle like Carrollton was so it's not going to be open for a bit. St. Louis disc golf has a long history of making things harder than they need to be. There are a few people there that just can't get on the same page.

Having said that, it would be really cool if that Club has turned a corner and would pull this off without a hitch and make me eat my words.

 

[Three Putt]

It's a lot easier to screw up a good tournament, than make it better.

One of the issues St. Louis has always had is the revolving door TD's. Somebody runs an event for one or two years and then they burn out some somebody else (sometimes reluctantly) picks it up. The event has had ups and downs, and it's really hard to overcome the reputation you get from the down years. I know on facebook this year one of the higher-rated somewhat-local players went on and basically said he rather go to an event out of town and trashed the tournament, which is never a good look (although the same guy complains on facebook a lot about almost everything so take it with a grain of salt.)

They had a pretty good year this year and I think there is a real interest in trying to build momentum and overcome some of the bumps in the road they have had.

 

[Three Putt]

As an MA60 who actually did travel to play last year, part of the appeal was to play multiple courses. So don't put us on the same ones we played this year.

If there are to be two rounds in one day, they'd better be at the same course with lunch provided or really convenient. (And not at one of those way out of town).

Which courses did you play last year? Did you play one round/day?

I guess one round Fri/Sat/Sun would be OK at my age, my issue is more with tee times. The real fun of old disc golf events was that you were all there at the same time to start and end. There was a lot of socializing. Tee times take away from that, and without the socializing it's just disc golf. I'm not sure I'd pay very much money just to find out how bad I am at disc golf.

 

[Golden Tuna]

JB just got the approval for another 18 hole course! :clap:

Initial designs look like a par 65-67. Should be epic!

I did see that.

I predict that when it is all over and done with it will be a fine course, but the process of designing it will become a boondoggle like Carrollton was so it's not going to be open for a bit. St. Louis disc golf has a long history of making things harder than they need to be. There are a few people there that just can't get on the same page.

Having said that, it would be really cool if that Club has turned a corner and would pull this off without a hitch and make me eat my words.

I (kind of) refuse to get involved in things that don't follow a process. Or, I get involved in things that have no process, and create the process. My current "project" is the St. Louis Club. I believe I can change the perception of the City, our Club, and install new courses. But, I don't want to do this forever, so I am creating processes that can live on well beyond my interest to volunteer. We do need to start holding people accountable for being d-bags though.

One of the issues St. Louis has always had is the revolving door TD's. Somebody runs an event for one or two years and then they burn out some somebody else (sometimes reluctantly) picks it up. The event has had ups and downs, and it's really hard to overcome the reputation you get from the down years. I know on facebook this year one of the higher-rated somewhat-local players went on and basically said he rather go to an event out of town and trashed the tournament, which is never a good look (although the same guy complains on facebook a lot about almost everything so take it with a grain of salt.)

They had a pretty good year this year and I think there is a real interest in trying to build momentum and overcome some of the bumps in the road they have had.

I think we've struggled to get a consistent group of solid volunteers. Again, this is a top priority to changes and we've got 6 new guys on our board that are hungry for this change. So, I believe we're moving in the right direction.

 

[Geer_Boggles]

1. Would you prefer to play 3 rounds (Fri, Sat, Sun) or 4 (Fri, Sat 1, Sat 2, Sun) - Personally, I like the 3-day event format. Makes travelling more cost efficient. If I was more local to the event I would love a 4-day format. Gives me more of a chance to have a bad day but finish respectably.

2. Would you prefer to play 1 course, 2 courses, or a new course each round? - I like playing multiple courses throughout an event. Makes it interesting and what plays to one player's strength in one round, another round may play to another player's strength another round. Makes it a true competition to overcome and improvise to any setting.

3. How far are you willing to travel for an event? - My finances dictate no further than 3 hours away from me. But if I was single or without kids I would be traveling much more.

4. What would entice you to put an event (outside your home town) on your calendar? - Word of mouth. Plain and simple. I am going to be participating in an out-of-state A-tier for my first time ever simply because many of my friends have stated it is one of the best in the region. Make your players happy and they will bring the competitors to you.

5. What (specific) types of items do you like to see in player's packs? - Obvious choice is Discs and I'm on board with that. But I also like other non-standard things as well. A bag or a basket or gear in general are always welcome additions.

6. Based on the events you've attended, what makes them memorable (good or bad)? - Most of the events I've attended are heavily Pro focused events. While that's all fine and dandy, these aren't touring pros I'm talking about. I want TD's to recognize us little AMs just as much as the professional divisions. Otherwise, why open to AMs? Maybe it is just my location but I feel like AM's are treated as a necessary evil in TD's eyes. Appreciate the little guys as they will become the big guys one day.

 

[ru4por]

One of the issues St. Louis has always had is the revolving door TD's. Somebody runs an event for one or two years and then they burn out some somebody else (sometimes reluctantly) picks it up. The event has had ups and downs, and it's really hard to overcome the reputation you get from the down years. I know on facebook this year one of the higher-rated somewhat-local players went on and basically said he rather go to an event out of town and trashed the tournament, which is never a good look (although the same guy complains on facebook a lot about almost everything so take it with a grain of salt.)

They had a pretty good year this year and I think there is a real interest in trying to build momentum and overcome some of the bumps in the road they have had.

WOW!! This all day. Same here. I have been getting involved with an old, established club that runs 8 or so tournaments a year, three leagues and was pretty much run into the ground by a group of volunteers, in the past few years. No disrespect, as I am sure they were trying to do the right thing, just seemed to lack the knowledge or skill set.

That reputation is the battle. A lot of marketing, showing our faces at other local tournaments, leagues to talk up the new leadership. Demonstrating a new, efficient, value driven tournament process is a start. It DOES NOT take but one player with a perceived issue on the social media scene to destroy a ton of hard work. Sadly, it is almost exclusively local pro players that seem to take this road.

The things that have really made the difference, outside of the marketing, is perceived value in player packs and payouts, getting payouts done and player heading home quickly, efficient player check in and player meetings, well prepared courses and listening to feedback. When we run into things that are not received well or unsuccessful, we stop doing it.

Good post!!

 

[Three Putt]

Initial designs look like a par 65-67. Should be epic!

I (kind of) refuse to get involved in things that don't follow a process. Or, I get involved in things that have no process, and create the process. My current "project" is the St. Louis Club. I believe I can change the perception of the City, our Club, and install new courses. But, I don't want to do this forever, so I am creating processes that can live on well beyond my interest to volunteer. We do need to start holding people accountable for being d-bags though.

I think we've struggled to get a consistent group of solid volunteers. Again, this is a top priority to changes and we've got 6 new guys on our board that are hungry for this change. So, I believe we're moving in the right direction.

One thing that that was true then and is still true now it that there are a lot of really good solid guys in that club. Those guys were just not "organization" people, so they don't know how to go to a meeting or be part of a committee. They need a lot of leadership and a lot of patience since things you would think they should know they don't know. In one way it can be frustrating, but the payoff would be huge since it's an old scene, and big scene and it's got so many good guys as part of it. If you can give them direction and leave it in a way that can be repeated, you might just be what those guys have needed for 30 years.

Which when applied to the Open is nothing but good news. Everything I heard about last year was positive. It's a great opportunity to push the event forward and get it on the radar of more players.

 

[GMcAtee]

4. Master's Only

 

[Golden Tuna]

1. Would you prefer to play 3 rounds (Fri, Sat, Sun) or 4 (Fri, Sat 1, Sat 2, Sun) - Personally, I like the 3-day event format. Makes travelling more cost efficient. If I was more local to the event I would love a 4-day format. Gives me more of a chance to have a bad day but finish respectably.

Both options are the same time commitment.
Do you prefer 3 rounds in 3 days or 4 rounds in 3 days?

 

[gabdisc]

Events outside

I am and AM50. I go to tournaments just for the disc golf and to hang out with disc golfers. I want to play so as much golf as possible. I am a poor player and have no chance to prize but still want the course to be a serious challenge. Don't care about player's packs. I would love to see social events in the evenings where I could just talk to other golfers. and maybe some arrangement so a large portion of players stay at the same place.

 

[puck'n'disc5]

Which when applied to the Open is nothing but good news. Everything I heard about last year was positive. It's a great opportunity to push the event forward and get it on the radar of more players.

I'm not 100% sure who the TD is going to be this year, but Dave West TD'd last year's tournament. I am a huge fan of Dave West. He was one of the first people I met when I first joined the club back in 2011. I had been playing for several years before joining but was always a little bit too timid to join the club. He left a lasting impression on myself and made me feel like a welcomed member of the St. Louis DG Community (I didn't know any members at the time). And I think he had a lot to do with the turn around of this past year's STL Open. It would be nice to see him come back and TD this year as well and keep building the momentum. The March B Tiers was also a huge hit last season. Hopefully we can build upon the success on those events as well (2 B Tiers on the same weekend for those unfamiliar).

We also had someone take over as club president last season (might of been the season before, I can't remember) who has been a long time StL disc golf club member, and he ran unopposed this year. The new club president seems much better at delegating authority and is not afraid to listen to what other club members have to say, and implementing some of those ideas. It's also nice to see someone like Golden Tuna get on here asking for advice from fellow disc golfers to get an idea of what people are looking for in a tournament. I'm not exactly sure of who you are, although I wouldn't doubt if we have crossed paths before. One of these days we gotta meet up for a round!!

 

[Three Putt]

I am a huge fan of Dave West.

I live vicariously through Dave West's facebook vacation pictures. :|

I tell a dumb story about playing glow at White Birch with a guy who putted with black 150 class 86 Softies and that terrible feeling when the putt hit nothing in the dark and you had to start looking around for a black disc you never saw in flight on the ground in the dark; that guy was Dave West. He and Bob Waidmann are a couple of the best guys I've met.

Rando Bob Waidmann story; I was playing the new holes at Creve Coeur this weekend and on hole 6 there is a depression in front of the basket that has two holes in the ground. They are exposed holes that go down to an old sewer line. I know this because I threw my putter off the tee and left it short; it went right down in one of the holes. I couldn't reach it, so I posted on facebook whining about losing my putter down in the hole. Bob got off work, got some equipment and made a special trip out to Creve Coeur to dig my putter out of the hole. Who does that for a guy you threw league with 20 years ago? Bob Waidmann does. You won't find a nicer guy.

I'm not exactly sure of who you are, although I wouldn't doubt if we have crossed paths before. One of these days we gotta meet up for a round!!

I'm out in Rolla these day. I have a couple of hours to kill on Saturdays so I try to frolf when I can, but once I drive anywhere I usually only get nine in before I have to get back and pick up my kid from band. I gotta get those kids through college/high school before I'll have time to do a three-day PDGA event.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I tell a dumb story about playing glow at White Birch with a guy who putted with black 150 class 86 Softies and that terrible feeling when the putt hit nothing in the dark and you had to start looking around for a black disc you never saw in flight on the ground in the dark; that guy was Dave West.

This cracks me up. :thmbup:

 

[Geer_Boggles]

Both options are the same time commitment.
Do you prefer 3 rounds in 3 days or 4 rounds in 3 days?

That's a great point and a phenomenal miss on my part. That in mind, I would keep the 3 rounds in 3 days format. It would feel quite wonky to have an extra round tossed in there randomly.

 

[Mr. Butlertron]

1. Would you prefer to play 3 rounds (Fri, Sat, Sun) or 4 (Fri, Sat 1, Sat 2, Sun)
Answer: 3. If I'm an out of towner I prefer some time to do more than just DG

2. Would you prefer to play 1 course, 2 courses, or a new course each round?
Answer: New courses

3. How far are you willing to travel for an event?
Answer: I'm somewhat of a course bagger, so 9 hrs by car if the courses are good/fun

4. What would entice you to put an event (outside your home town) on your calendar?
Answer: 3.5 rated courses with a lot of fairway variation, not too many blind pins

5. What (specific) types of items do you like to see in player's packs? Tournament specific printed shirts/discs/merch.

6. Based on the events you've attended, what makes them memorable (good or bad)?
Answer: Oodles CTPs and Ring of Fire prizes.

Thanks in advance for your input!

 

[DiscFifty]

I am and AM50. I go to tournaments just for the disc golf and to hang out with disc golfers.

Sounds like you could avoid the cost, time, etc, of tournaments and just hook up with local golfers at minis, clubs, etc. Have you checked your local disc golf stores for local clubs or minis? If there isn't any, you might want to research a local pro, if there's a few local pros, chances are there's local minis where you could meet other am players, and more than likely several in your age bracket.