Putt rolls but is stopped by player's bag?

[JC17393]

You misunderstand me. Or I wasn't clear enough. It's not that people disagree on what the rule should be, that indicates that the rule is unclear, but that there are som many different interpretations of the rule. The rules that are clear, people don't interpret differently. Your point in case, no one claims there is a 2 throw penalty for going OB. It is however my observation that a lot of people tend to interpret the rules the way they like them to be, when it is unclear how it is supposed to be.

While I agree with your interpretation, this thread indicates, players interpret this rule in almost complete opposite ways. And that is in a rules forum, where you would assume most have more interest in the rules than the average player. That would not be such a problem, if Disc Golf wasn't a self officiated sport. We need rules to be pretty clear, if we want to have consistent application of them. And it wouldn't be so difficult to clear up this particular rule.

Perhaps I wasn't clear either. A lot of the wild and incorrect interpretations in this thread aren't based on the actual text of the rule at all. That, to me, isn't an indictment of the rule as written. It's more of an indictment of the people making the interpretation. As far as I'm concerned, people here are looking at a red car and insisting that it is green. That doesn't mean the car was poorly painted, it means some people are colorblind.

Of course, the car could be poorly painted as well, but that's a different discussion than most of what I've read here.

 

[Steve West]

I think this one is written pretty clearly. Let's say you are standing next to your bag and a missed putt is rolling your way. If someone said: "Players shall not stand or leave their equipment where interference with a disc in play may occur!" would you have any doubt about what to do now?

 

[Cgkdisc]

So another player tries to push you out of the way and you fall over your bag hurting your arm. What's the call? You get a courtesy violation for not moving on your own and the other player gets a gold star for trying to prevent interference?

 

[The Shide]

So another player tries to push you out of the way and you fall over your bag hurting your arm.

Hehe! Full-contact Disc Golf!

 

[rhatton1]

This is an interesting thread and almost the exact situation occurred on a BDGA tour event a few years ago (its a regular occurence at one hole on my local course). It was taken up with the Rules committee and the following ruling was agreed as being correct.

Scenario:

Player putted uphill, disc rolled back towards him, he was asked to move his bag by another member of the group, had time to do so and refused to do so. The disc hit his bag.

Ruling: He was penalized under an an interference ruling, based on 804.03 F: Players shall not stand or leave their equipment where interference with a disc in play may occur.

Just checked with a current member of the rules committee and this was how it played out.

If you've got a chance to move your stuff out of the way move it people, you and it don;t constitute a part of the course!!

Edit - Notroman makes a good point in the third post, I believe you could only be penalised for not moving your own bag in time, there is no onus on you to move someone elses - although if you did I don't believe you would be penalised for it as their bag is not part of the course.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The penalty for that infraction should have been a courtesy warning if 804.03F was applied. In ball golf, it would have been a 1-shot penalty. I'm thinking that if moving your equipment to avoid interference was really important to the RC, it would be a penalty rather than warning. Faced with that BDGA situation, I would willingly take the risk of a courtesy violation being called versus move my bag, not to be a jerk but because it was there before the throw was made.

BTW, the 2011 rule book had the statement: "The away player may require other players to mark their lies or move their equipment before making a throw if the player believes that either could interfere with his or her throw." The section in red regarding time frame was removed for the current 2013 update. Even though 2011 said "before the throw" it doesn't explicitly exclude "once the throw is in motion" but could imply it.

 

[bballr4567]

Intentional is such a fuzzy area regardless. It's pretty hard to judge what is going on inside someone's head. If I were to place my bag on the downhill side of a downhill (except if the bag is directly behind the thrower) putt thats going to look pretty funky and it seems like this is what happened. However, you cant judge what his intentional act was. He did leave his bag in an area where his disc could interfere with it.

 

[The Shide]

As I've stated earlier, I've believed that a penalty is given to the owner of the bag that is struck by a disc. After some time to mull it over & some time to read & re-read the rule book my opinion on the matter has come to the conclusion that a disc hitting a players bag is a courtesy violation, just as it states in 804.03F (which I have maintained all along to be the case). However, it suddenly occurred to me that it should be a warning, not a penalty.
This then takes us back to rule 801.04.G concerning subsequent violations.
What say thee?

 

[Cronemus]

I say that I still have no idea and would love to hear a definite ruling. I grabbed a buddies bag out of the way, so it wasn't mine, and courtesy violations for it being my bag should be off the table. Perhaps he should be given a courtesy violation for leaving his bag in a place where the disc might ultimately come to rest, but no one called him out on it before the throw. Perhaps I should be stroked for touching another players equipment during a throw? I understand this was a rare event, but shouldn't it be covered somewhere in the rules? I've read the thread (hell I started it), but I'm still not sure if I should be stroked 1,2, no strokes, and if he should be penalized by 1, 2, or none?

 

[Cgkdisc]

I think we are now in agreement you played it properly per the current rules and no penalties are involved, even warnings. All the other posts are discussion about how maybe the rules could be tweaked or clarified.

 

[Cronemus]

So he still takes a 5, and I'm not punished for moving his bag?

 

[Cgkdisc]

yep.

 

[Cronemus]

So he takes a natural 5, I don't get stroked for moving the bag, and the round goes on as normal? And if I had left the bag in place, he would have gotten a courtesy violation, but not a stroke for leaving the bag there even though nobody told him to move it?

 

[Cronemus]

And thank you Chuck, Really appreciate the wisdom and experience.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Thank some of the others for seeing the answer and pulling me in their direction. I'm not sure our current rules on this are the best but I now agree with the ruling.

 

[freestateflyer]

I stand corrected. :thmbup:

 

[JoakimBL]

Someone call Guinness Book of records. Someone was persuaded to change opinion due to a discussion on the Internet!
In all seriousness, good on you Chuck. Your opinion carries a lot of weight on these issues. As much as that is annoying when we are in disagreement, I like it when we are not.

 

[rhatton1]

Perhaps I should be stroked for touching another players equipment during a throw?

Do I just have a dirty mind, but the images this raises....This is how I imagine a Scott Stokely produced disc golf video would go down.... Bom chicka wow wow

 

[kerplunk]

So I am really the only person that has a serious problem with a player moving another player's bag without permission?

 

[DavidSauls]

So I am really the only person that has a serious problem with a player moving another player's bag without permission?

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I have absolutely no problem with someone moving my bag, and it's never crossed my mind that someone would have issues if I moved theirs.

Are you talking about a "don't touch my stuff" philosophy, or just moving it to avoid interference?