Putting stats and realizing when to change putting style

[Kjimsern]

So ive changed my style after some feedback here, im curious about how to move forward.

I'm training extremely hard, putting everyday several times a day.

I measure my progress, but lets say i stop progressing.

When do you think about changing something?

Im pleased with my putting style now and think i can reach 90% from 10m.

But lets say i dont get better for a while and i dont see any progress, should i keep practicing or just change small things?

I need some thoughts and opinions.

Here is some of my stats from when i'm measuring progress.

 

[BillFleming]

So you are 70ish% from Circle 1. What is wrong with that? What needs improvement? How are you from outside C1? Maybe you need to focus elsewhere than C1 putting. Maybe you should be happy with your C1 percentage and work on drives and approach shots so that you end up in C1 and make your putts.

I'm accurate (8 of 10) from 15 feet. I just have not been able to get better outside that distance....however, I don't want to 'wreck' what accuracy I do have by changing styles....so I'm working on getting my approaches within that 15 feet.

If you want to improve putting, work on what style works outside C1. See if you can get to 50% outside C1...then you may have a more rounded putting game.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

Keep practicing. I've had my own basket for 23 years, have over 4,000 score-kept putts from 30 feet so far this winter, and I still discover little things here and there that help. I noticed just the other day that if my grip is a little weak as I'm just getting ready for my delivery, rather than take extra time to regrip, I have a much better chance of making it with that weaker grip if I aim a little right and put a little hyzer on it. Made 2 extra tonight that way out of my nightly 100.

You have some nice numbers there. Is that just one putting style? Up until a couple of years ago, I was never confident with straddle putts, so I made half my putting practice straddle putts, and the other half my regular stagger stance. They're almost even with one another now. I'm only about 1% to 1.5% worse with the straddles now, from 30'.

Even if you don't improve for a stretch, you're working on concentrating, on battling. I was as stiff as a board tonight after playing my first round of the year yesterday. I told myself to fight through it and work on concentrating despite my body not having its A game. Wound up making 68% from 30' after starting the session 9 for 20. I'd call that a success. 65% is around my average.

I agree with Bill that maybe it's time to also work on other aspects of the game, but do it while also continuing to putt. What does it take to get in 100 quality putts, 20 minutes? Keep doing that, and also work on the other stuff, if your goal is to get and play better when it counts.

I personally need to work on throws outside of 180'. The problem is I get so stiff and sore with all the reps, and I don't with putting. The joys of turning 50...

 

[biscoe]

I personally need to work on throws outside of 180'. The problem is I get so stiff and sore with all the reps, and I don't with putting. The joys of turning 50...

Yep, the struggle is real... I need the reps to stay "decent" but my body can take a declining number of reps which winds up going hand in hand with another declining number...

 

[blayed]

Give yourself some credit because compared to backhand and sidearm, putting is the only DG motion that requires fine motor skills. It trains and activates a completely different part of your brain. Keep up the good work!

 

[Steve West]

90% at exactly 10 meters will be much tougher to achieve than it would seem. A player who is 90% at 9 meters would be expected to be 73% at 10 meters. The target appears about 20% smaller from 10m than from 9m - because of the inverse square law.

 

[Kjimsern]

So you are 70ish% from Circle 1. What is wrong with that? What needs improvement? How are you from outside C1? Maybe you need to focus elsewhere than C1 putting. Maybe you should be happy with your C1 percentage and work on drives and approach shots so that you end up in C1 and make your putts.

I'm accurate (8 of 10) from 15 feet. I just have not been able to get better outside that distance....however, I don't want to 'wreck' what accuracy I do have by changing styles....so I'm working on getting my approaches within that 15 feet.

If you want to improve putting, work on what style works outside C1. See if you can get to 50% outside C1...then you may have a more rounded putting game.

Yeah, its just one putting style
I train straddle putt aswell, but never when i measure my putts with the app.

Keep practicing. I've had my own basket for 23 years, have over 4,000 score-kept putts from 30 feet so far this winter, and I still discover little things here and there that help. I noticed just the other day that if my grip is a little weak as I'm just getting ready for my delivery, rather than take extra time to regrip, I have a much better chance of making it with that weaker grip if I aim a little right and put a little hyzer on it. Made 2 extra tonight that way out of my nightly 100.

You have some nice numbers there. Is that just one putting style? Up until a couple of years ago, I was never confident with straddle putts, so I made half my putting practice straddle putts, and the other half my regular stagger stance. They're almost even with one another now. I'm only about 1% to 1.5% worse with the straddles now, from 30'.

Even if you don't improve for a stretch, you're working on concentrating, on battling. I was as stiff as a board tonight after playing my first round of the year yesterday. I told myself to fight through it and work on concentrating despite my body not having its A game. Wound up making 68% from 30' after starting the session 9 for 20. I'd call that a success. 65% is around my average.

I agree with Bill that maybe it's time to also work on other aspects of the game, but do it while also continuing to putt. What does it take to get in 100 quality putts, 20 minutes? Keep doing that, and also work on the other stuff, if your goal is to get and play better when it counts.

I personally need to work on throws outside of 180'. The problem is I get so stiff and sore with all the reps, and I don't with putting. The joys of turning 50...

Thanks but is the numbers good though?
Remmember im putting from 6-9m.

I dont feel like the numbers are that good, witch sucks for my mental health since ive been training so hard for a long time now and i want to become a proffesional.

Give yourself some credit because compared to backhand and sidearm, putting is the only DG motion that requires fine motor skills. It trains and activates a completely different part of your brain. Keep up the good work!

Thanks i appreciate it.

90% at exactly 10 meters will be much tougher to achieve than it would seem. A player who is 90% at 9 meters would be expected to be 73% at 10 meters. The target appears about 20% smaller from 10m than from 9m - because of the inverse square law.

I agree, after i changed style if you check the charts. I started from 6m to 8m to build confidence. It was from 09.02

if i putt from 9-10m the % will fall of by a decent ammount, i will try it soon and i am scared.

Not getting progression is always tough when you have putt in so much work.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

Yeah, its just one putting style
I train straddle putt aswell, but never when i measure my putts with the app.



Thanks but is the numbers good though?
Remmember im putting from 6-9m.

I dont feel like the numbers are that good, witch sucks for my mental health since ive been training so hard for a long time now and i want to become a proffesional.

Doesn't your graph show you making 75% of your 30-footers? That's very good. When Andrew Marwede showed up to our putting league a couple of years ago, it was filmed and I counted 80% from that same distance and he's considered a great putter.

The gains you'll get from this point onward will be very slow. It might take a year of 100 putts a night to get 5% better from where you already are. You're only 1 out of 20 away from Marwede's putting league performance, and if you think about actual rounds, how many 30-footers do you have in a day? Elite players are only gaining a stroke every other round or so on you right now from c1 if you keep up 75% from 30 feet.

I'm thinking to make 3 out of 4 from circle's edge you've already got very good putting form. It's going to be tough to squeeze one more make out of 20 on average, but I guess that's the price elite pros pay to be who they are.

I've been working hard on my putts in the basement this winter so I can hang in there with the MA-40 and MA-50 crowd. It's fun, not really "work" so much for me, and I love battling for my daily score. When I heard that Gannon Buhr only practices from 30 feet, I got rid of my PP360 regimen that has you putting from a whole bunch of smaller distances and only like 20% of them from 25' and 30'. I like this new approach way better, so many reps from back at the edge of the circle. After over 4,000 putts since the new year started, I've gotten about 4% better from 30'. I started the winter at about 62% and am now getting around 66%. 7/10 from 30' in a large data sample seems like I'm "on" and when I'm making 6/10 it feels like I'm really battling. Funny how that is. My worse score out of 42 rounds so far is a 55% in one of my earlier rounds and that felt disastrous to me, like I couldn't predict what my body was doing. Just 15% better, which is like a gained stroke per round (I'm assuming about 6 circle's edge putts in a normal round or so?), feels like I'm on top of the world.

Funny, too, I got new glasses with a new prescription and that night I shot my best ever score, a 74%, and my percentages shot up 2% ever since. Have you had your eyes checked?

 

[Kjimsern]

Doesn't your graph show you making 75% of your 30-footers? That's very good. When Andrew Marwede showed up to our putting league a couple of years ago, it was filmed and I counted 80% from that same distance and he's considered a great putter.

The gains you'll get from this point onward will be very slow. It might take a year of 100 putts a night to get 5% better from where you already are. You're only 1 out of 20 away from Marwede's putting league performance, and if you think about actual rounds, how many 30-footers do you have in a day? Elite players are only gaining a stroke every other round or so on you right now from c1 if you keep up 75% from 30 feet.

I'm thinking to make 3 out of 4 from circle's edge you've already got very good putting form. It's going to be tough to squeeze one more make out of 20 on average, but I guess that's the price elite pros pay to be who they are.

I've been working hard on my putts in the basement this winter so I can hang in there with the MA-40 and MA-50 crowd. It's fun, not really "work" so much for me, and I love battling for my daily score. When I heard that Gannon Buhr only practices from 30 feet, I got rid of my PP360 regimen that has you putting from a whole bunch of smaller distances and only like 20% of them from 25' and 30'. I like this new approach way better, so many reps from back at the edge of the circle. After over 4,000 putts since the new year started, I've gotten about 4% better from 30'. I started the winter at about 62% and am now getting around 66%. 7/10 from 30' in a large data sample seems like I'm "on" and when I'm making 6/10 it feels like I'm really battling. Funny how that is. My worse score out of 42 rounds so far is a 55% in one of my earlier rounds and that felt disastrous to me, like I couldn't predict what my body was doing. Just 15% better, which is like a gained stroke per round (I'm assuming about 6 circle's edge putts in a normal round or so?), feels like I'm on top of the world.

Funny, too, I got new glasses with a new prescription and that night I shot my best ever score, a 74%, and my percentages shot up 2% ever since. Have you had your eyes checked?

First of all, thanks for sharing your data i know there is alot of work behind it.

I guess with what your saying and i agree, i have to realize that my putting wont become so much better from now on forward.

I tested today from 30 feet and managed to get 82%. ( i putt inside in a training facility )

I have a theory about putting only from 30 feet, i think the practice is good, but mentally the 20 footers might be tougher because you dont spend anytime with thoose?

So at least having a few putts from 10 feet uppwards to 30 feet to have that mental security about shorter putts aswell.

Do you agree?

 

[Sheep]

/me grabs some change

Gonna load in my 2 cents here.


You're stats are probably 70% circle one because you're practicing to much and practicing while you're tired.

Whenever you feel slightly fatigued practicing, you need to stop.

Practice putting while tired is bad all around and can make everything far far worse.

 

[Kjimsern]

/me grabs some change

Gonna load in my 2 cents here.


You're stats are probably 70% circle one because you're practicing to much and practicing while you're tired.

Whenever you feel slightly fatigued practicing, you need to stop.

Practice putting while tired is bad all around and can make everything far far worse.

I have 2-3 sessions per day, 30-40 minutes each.

But maybe your right, i can try 1-2 sessions for a while to see if it works out.

 

[Sheep]

I have 2-3 sessions per day, 30-40 minutes each.

But maybe your right, i can try 1-2 sessions for a while to see if it works out.

10 to 15 mins max at a time.

No wonder you're not getting more.
You're practicing and building good form, then getting exhausted and over compensating and ruining all the work you just put in. Then have to turn around and re-dial it at the start of the next session, and the cycle continues.

The ole addage of putting 500 putts a setting, that is stupidity.
Remember, those people probably did 2 lines of coke before they practiced back in the 90's.

I'm exagerating.

But when you practice while tired or fatigued, you over compensate and kill the muscle memory.

It's just the same with practicing driving and many other things. when your body is tired it doesn't perform.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

First of all, thanks for sharing your data i know there is alot of work behind it.

I guess with what your saying and i agree, i have to realize that my putting wont become so much better from now on forward.

I tested today from 30 feet and managed to get 82%. ( i putt inside in a training facility )

I have a theory about putting only from 30 feet, i think the practice is good, but mentally the 20 footers might be tougher because you dont spend anytime with thoose?

So at least having a few putts from 10 feet uppwards to 30 feet to have that mental security about shorter putts aswell.

Do you agree?

I think Philo was the one who said your hand shouldn't end up outside the chains anywhere in the circle. That doesn't work for me at the back of the circle (I reach up high as if I'm aiming to hit the band, then gravity brings it down enough...most of the time), but once I'm at 25' on in, that's true for me. No need for me to practice 10 or 15 footers at all. I think one winter I missed like 3 from 15 feet all winter long.

However, I warm up by putting all 20 of my putters from 20', then 25', then move back and keep my score for 100 putts at 30'. That gets me all I need from those shorter distances. Afterward I might goof around with some steppers and jumpers (I'm blessed to have 45' and a tall ceiling in my basement...) just to remember how to do them, but I'm not going to keep score with hundreds of them.

I respect the other gentleman's opinion about not practicing while tired. I agree with him if your muscle memory still needs work and you're still working on the form. However, with you hitting 75% and more, your form is probably pretty good, and fighting through some nerves and a little fatigue is good mental work. Those things will definitely happen in a real tournament, so you've got to know how to handle yourself when you don't have your "A" game at the moment. I've developed a couple of strategies from all the reps when I'm not feeling 100% that help me make a few I otherwise wouldn't, such as slowing down my velocity just a touch and getting more of a hyzer putt instead of my usual straight-at-it spin putt. When I'm on, the assertive spin putt is very good, but I'm often not on, and I'll miss to the right a lot if I try to putt too much pace on it when my brain is less connected to the rest of my body. It happens more often than I'd like.

Thanks for listening. We are on totally different career paths with you saying you want to be a professional, so taking my MA-40/MA-50 advice is worth the price you've paid for it.

One more thing...If you are able, hang around players who are better than you. If you want to be a pro, be with them. A lot. I am from the same area and era as Dave Feldberg and remember him, when he was just as bad as me in Am-1, deciding he wanted more than amateur mediocrity, so he followed the Winnicrew guys around (Todd Branch, Al Schack, and later, Avery Jenkins...) and learning from them. It didn't take long before he was getting real, real good. I was on his card in the second round of the '99 DGLO in Am-1. (He beat me by a stroke every 4 holes that round...) Just two years later in 2001, he tied for 5th at DGLO in MPO with Barry Shultz, Avery Jenkins and Todd Branch. A very impressive improvement for only 2 years. If you indeed have your heart set on being a touring pro, learn from them...in person.

 

[Kjimsern]

Great advice, thanks.

I guess i have to move to US, im from Norway.

But ive contacted alot touring pro's for help and they respond usually aswell.

Seabas22 have taught me how to throw 600 feet in 2 years.

Its just forehand and putting left and i should be good.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

Great advice, thanks.

I guess i have to move to US, im from Norway.

But ive contacted alot touring pro's for help and they respond usually aswell.

Seabas22 have taught me how to throw 600 feet in 2 years.

Its just forehand and putting left and i should be good.

Ah, yes, good old Sidewinder/Seabas! He helped me greatly with my backhand. I really wish I had him in 1998. It's way too late for me, but my young son, 10 at the time, watched and picked up on it real quickly. He's 13 now and pinning 300' holes with Rocs, getting 400' with his Hades. If I could just get the kid to practice putting on the regular. I never in my life had 400', but then again, the best Disc I had available to me in my prime was a Banshee with about 2 tree hits on it, which is like a speed 6 Firebird.

Best wishes on your journey... I'd be curious to see how you do in the coming years!

 

[Hampejo]

Great advice, thanks.

I guess i have to move to US, im from Norway.

But ive contacted alot touring pro's for help and they respond usually aswell.

Seabas22 have taught me how to throw 600 feet in 2 years.

Its just forehand and putting left and i should be good.

Can't find your form advice thread. Do you have one or did Seabas help you in another way?

 

[Kjimsern]

Can't find your form advice thread. Do you have one or did Seabas help you in another way?

We have alot of emails and we have had zoom meetings. ( we even have eachother on facebook now )

It was a long road, but if you check out my youtube you can see what ive done to become better at least if that has some value for you.

 

[ChrisinFL]

Doesn't your graph show you making 75% of your 30-footers? That's very good. When Andrew Marwede showed up to our putting league a couple of years ago, it was filmed and I counted 80% from that same distance and he's considered a great putter.

The gains you'll get from this point onward will be very slow. It might take a year of 100 putts a night to get 5% better from where you already are. You're only 1 out of 20 away from Marwede's putting league performance, and if you think about actual rounds, how many 30-footers do you have in a day? Elite players are only gaining a stroke every other round or so on you right now from c1 if you keep up 75% from 30 feet.

I'm thinking to make 3 out of 4 from circle's edge you've already got very good putting form. It's going to be tough to squeeze one more make out of 20 on average, but I guess that's the price elite pros pay to be who they are.

I've been working hard on my putts in the basement this winter so I can hang in there with the MA-40 and MA-50 crowd. It's fun, not really "work" so much for me, and I love battling for my daily score. When I heard that Gannon Buhr only practices from 30 feet, I got rid of my PP360 regimen that has you putting from a whole bunch of smaller distances and only like 20% of them from 25' and 30'. I like this new approach way better, so many reps from back at the edge of the circle. After over 4,000 putts since the new year started, I've gotten about 4% better from 30'. I started the winter at about 62% and am now getting around 66%. 7/10 from 30' in a large data sample seems like I'm "on" and when I'm making 6/10 it feels like I'm really battling. Funny how that is. My worse score out of 42 rounds so far is a 55% in one of my earlier rounds and that felt disastrous to me, like I couldn't predict what my body was doing. Just 15% better, which is like a gained stroke per round (I'm assuming about 6 circle's edge putts in a normal round or so?), feels like I'm on top of the world.

Funny, too, I got new glasses with a new prescription and that night I shot my best ever score, a 74%, and my percentages shot up 2% ever since. Have you had your eyes checked?

I feel the same way - putting for practice or percentages is fun. Not like work at all - I look forward to it! Also, as you get better and better at putting, of course gains are going to be smaller and harder to get. As a beginner we can improve a lot fast. Pretty easy to improve at 20' from 1 or 2 out of 10, to 3, 4, 5…. A little harder to get it up from 5 to 6 and 7. But moving that 7 to an 8 or 9 - you got to get really good. Then, trying to turn 90% into 95% - yikes. If you are approaching putting numbers that get you into the "very good putter" category, you got to figure additional gains are going to be really hard to come by. I mean, damn, professional guys do disc golf for a living - probably practice for hours almost every single day - and they still miss some at 30 feet, and even more at 40 and 50 feet.