Question On Drive Height

[Putt for D'oh]

I often wonder on height, and if people really know the height they are throwing at. First, my house is 33 feet in height so I stand in front of it every day, and I completely recognize that even my biggest looping hyzers are rarely at that height. Most of my throws that look high aren't much higher than 15 feet. Even big flex shots.

This is all compounded by what TBFG was originally asking about elevation changes on the fairway. I have, I think decent idea of height of a shot on flat ground but on a slight uphill or down hill? I know my estimation is off, just no clue, then how far above the ground from the tee even gets messed up when there is a slope to the fairway.

 

[Dr.Smooth]

-The pros are throwing that high because they throw that much further. Height relative to distance-their is a correct formula.


-The only guy who could really throw low and super far was Ken Climo. Freak of nature. But it kept his drives safer and less wind variables as well. "Frozen Rope."


-Big D is often 50 to 60 feet high.


Your 5 foot high throws are probably too low. Work on throwing higher.

 

[slowplastic]

The harder you throw the higher you can throw nose down shots and get them to carry the turn through the apex. I would say that in general for fairway/distance drivers if I throw them 8-10' high that will be a very controlled golf shot and I will lose maybe 10-20' it seems like compared to a 15' high drive (and the ground type...grabby or fast), but not have to deal with any fade for the most part.

If I throw a mid or putter I can throw them higher and get them to glide it out. On my faster drivers I may not be able to throw the same angle with it (upwards), but I imagine if I had 15mph+ more arm speed like those top pro's I could get some pretty high shots out of my faster discs and get them to carry easily like I can with my mids, for even more distance. And at that speed/height they would come out of the turn reliably. But if I'm not throwing them hard enough to flip over and risk rolling (or never coming back from a drift right), then I don't need to throw them as high in the first place.

Basically it depends on your arm speed and disc for how high you should throw. Is it already fading before it hits the ground? No more height would help you too much. Is it gliding dead straight and hits the ground and slides forward? More height would have gotten you some significant extra distance.

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

So, for someone who has been keeping it low, what advice would you give about trying a higher throw? Is it as simple as release point being higher than the reach back? Or is another mechanism employed? I typically throw flat for little or no fade and I want to try for more distance from more fade. Hard to get past not wanting to repeat amateurish stall and crash - those days sucked.

 

[ThrowBot]

If you think about it, a disc at 40 feet in height, that flies 400 feet uses up 1/10th of it's distance in height. How efficient is that going to be? It takes a lot of energy to overcome gravity, and the more energy you put into that, as opposed to distance, the less efficient your throw.

I agree with some of this. It does kill some speed getting the disc up high, but from an energetic standpoint that's just trading kinetic energy for potential energy. The energy isn't "wasted" unless the disc stalls out...as long as the disc continues going forward after the high point, you can still get some distance benefit from that potential energy.

These maximum distance lines don't only get the disc up high, but at the high point the disc also has enough speed and the proper nose angle to continue going forward. Height isn't the only thing that improves distance, but it can be used along with other factors.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Unfortunately, what you're asking is a big sack of "it depends" on the disc.

You can raise trajectory by moving the disc lower in the back-swing along a straight line to the extension point that would be higher and that'll throw the disc higher.

For that shot to increase distance, the disc must have enough turn in it's flight to "crest it's apex" while turning with the nose down. If you can't turn the disc with ejection speed, then you have add anhyzer (while still keeping the nose down).

If you just throw something like a Buzzz with a high trajectory and no anhyzer, it'll likely stall and drop. High trajectory with the enough anhyzer, and you can get an amazing flattening glide that'll go an extra 50'. Finding the balance on height, anhyzer, nose angle (it needs to crest nose down), ejection speed and disc stability is all involved in the "it depends".

 

[lyleoross]

I agree with some of this. It does kill some speed getting the disc up high, but from an energetic standpoint that's just trading kinetic energy for potential energy. The energy isn't "wasted" unless the disc stalls out...as long as the disc continues going forward after the high point, you can still get some distance benefit from that potential energy.

These maximum distance lines don't only get the disc up high, but at the high point the disc also has enough speed and the proper nose angle to continue going forward. Height isn't the only thing that improves distance, but it can be used along with other factors.

Good point. Remember also that I'm discussing disc golf, not throwing for distance. All to often we as players get caught up in the hunt for distance, but the throws, while similar, aren't necessarily the same. If as a disc golfer, your job is to control the fairway, the distance technique matters. Yes, the open desert distance hunt is pretty high, but if that's how you're playing disc golf, better hope there's no two meter rule.

 

[slowplastic]

So, for someone who has been keeping it low, what advice would you give about trying a higher throw? Is it as simple as release point being higher than the reach back? Or is another mechanism employed? I typically throw flat for little or no fade and I want to try for more distance from more fade. Hard to get past not wanting to repeat amateurish stall and crash - those days sucked.

I can't do it on a flat throw, the angles don't work well for me. And I don't think I'd need to anyways...discs I throw flat are ones that typically have HSS = 0 or very close to it. I would use a disc that you feel is HSS -1/2ish for you, something that will stand up and ride right a bit. Throw a slight hyzer angle and just aim at a window that is 10-15' high 100' or so away from you (I may be off my imaginary window...sitting at a desk and imagining a spot I imagine when throwing is weird) and just try to throw up at that point with a slight like 5 degree hyzer. As little hyzer as you can get away with, but know that your disc will at least go flat or slightly drift right afterwards. If you throw it hard enough the disc will keep raising up as and after it passes through that window, until it turns over.

For a higher anny bomb, I imagine a higher point a good 20' high and further from me, that will be my apex or just past it...and try to throw "through" or "over" that apex with a steep anny angle...with a disc that will try to fade/pan out slowly. I don't like understable discs for these. This is now bordering between a golf and a distance shot, really depending on your height/angles, and how reproducible it is for you. For me, not really dependable on the course.

 

[slowplastic]

Also I agree with throwing upwards killing speed, which is why I said it really depends on your arm speed. The harder you throw the higher you can throw. I feel like you need to be able to really work a disc to throw it high. You have to be able to throw it a little "too" fast, so that when it gets up over that apex and keeps going, it still is at or past its cruising speed. I feel like I can make speed 9 discs do this and bomb, whereas unless I'm having a good day I can just line drive my speed 12 stuff. But that extra bit of arm speed on a good day can really make the high speed stuff dance and carry for me, it's a fine line depending on technique and the correct disc for that technique.

 

[sidewinder22]

Good point. Remember also that I'm discussing disc golf, not throwing for distance. All to often we as players get caught up in the hunt for distance, but the throws, while similar, aren't necessarily the same. If as a disc golfer, your job is to control the fairway, the distance technique matters. Yes, the open desert distance hunt is pretty high, but if that's how you're playing disc golf, better hope there's no two meter rule.

Not a rule anymore, unless it's specifically stated to be in effect for a tournament which is rare.

 

[rhatton1]

It's ridiculously hard to judge height, not sure why it just is. Was playing the other day and threw what I thought was the perfect shot on a tight wooded dog leg right 380' hole, it was just starting to turn at the right place and I was getting all excited for my first ever birdie on it when the unseen branch snagged it out of the air about 250' up the fairway.

I would have sworn I hadn't thrown it more than about 5' high, when I got to the branch that took it out, it was over twice my height up (5'9) I may or may not have been thinking about taking my revenge on the branch...

Having said that I did an exhibition at the NEC exhibition center last week and whilst talking to a colleague in a boring slow time we started having a bet about the size of the hall, length width and height. I got within 5 meters on width and length and pretty much spot on on height based on what I thought I could throw disc wise. The hall internal dimensions were 120 meters wide, 210 meters long and 19 meters high. I told him I could get a hyzer over the roof, he didn't believe me. So the bet went in to the breakdown phase of the show and I won by hitting the roof

I also made the width to width with room to spare which was nice as there was no wind inside and I had no idea how that would affect the throw ( I was expecting it to come up shorter than normal) that shot got up to about 7 meters high (24' ish) at the apex. It was probably taken from 5 meters or so inside the hall so would have been about 115 meters overall before hitting the far wall

The interesting bit in terms of this discussion was length to length. I obviously wasn't going to get anywhere near and because there were lots of other people in the hall breaking down I couldn't give it a go, but the flight line I was visualizing for maximum distance would have taken me over half way to the roof, probably about 11/12 meters up, right into the girders so I couldn't have thrown the line I would have liked.

I am still expecting to get told off by the show organisers on health and safety grounds at some point...

The bet did make me worry for our future generations as we asked two of the younger girls (early 20's), one of whom guestimated at the length of the hall being 1200 meters and the other one 20' in total, then told us that one of the panels on our stand was about 1' (it was 3') with the hall being around 600' that leap of maths was pretty impressive... and why she went with imperial measurements when we've taught metric in schools here since the 70's I just don't know...

 

[lyleoross]

It should also be noted that the big throws in the desert, where players aim for the sky, aren't of much value for thinking about distance throwing in any other environment. Those players are simply getting the disc up in the wind so that the wind can carry the disc as far as possible. If that is the way we're going to measure distance, I'm taping my cell phone to the bottom of my disc, for location purposes, and tossing it outside during the next hurricane. I'll smoke those guys. In a true distance competition, throws need to be in both directions. This eliminates the wind as a factor. If the guys throwing in the desert had to throw in both directions, and they got the disc up in the wind on their second throw, they'd be looking over their shoulder for their disc.

Those throws are fun, and they're good marketing material. but they have no real value in determining a player's throwing technique. They have some value in judging a players ability to read the wind, but that is a flukey thing at best. This is the reason why the distance competitions at worlds, look nothing like those big desert throws, and the discs don't go nearly as far.

 

[Nihilist]

People obviously forget, there is a happy medium for tail wind speeds. And thinking, I can just throw it up there and beat all those guys, is super arrogant and couldn't be farther from the truth. There's a reason why only the top distance throwers get invited each year to the desert, and not some hacks on the forums.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

It should also be noted that the big throws in the desert, where players aim for the sky, aren't of much value for thinking about distance throwing in any other environment. Those players are simply getting the disc up in the wind so that the wind can carry the disc as far as possible. If that is the way we're going to measure distance, I'm taping my cell phone to the bottom of my disc, for location purposes, and tossing it outside during the next hurricane. I'll smoke those guys. In a true distance competition, throws need to be in both directions. This eliminates the wind as a factor. If the guys throwing in the desert had to throw in both directions, and they got the disc up in the wind on their second throw, they'd be looking over their shoulder for their disc.

Those throws are fun, and they're good marketing material. but they have no real value in determining a player's throwing technique. They have some value in judging a players ability to read the wind, but that is a flukey thing at best. This is the reason why the distance competitions at worlds, look nothing like those big desert throws, and the discs don't go nearly as far.

Cant be serious...

 

[slowplastic]

Those throws are fun, and they're good marketing material. but they have no real value in determining a player's throwing technique. They have some value in judging a players ability to read the wind, but that is a flukey thing at best. This is the reason why the distance competitions at worlds, look nothing like those big desert throws, and the discs don't go nearly as far.

I'm sure that a bunch of us could outthrow the recent record holders of Wiggins and Lizotte on flat golf distance then, since their records have zero correlation to form or arm speed. opcorn:

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Would you forum hacks just shut yer traps already!?

 

[Nihilist]

I'm sure that a bunch of us could outthrow the recent record holders of Wiggins and Lizotte on flat golf distance then, since their records have zero correlation to form or arm speed. opcorn:

^^^This!