Really Small Baskets

[itsRudy]

One thing those thousands of threads promoting small baskets have run into is this: in trying to emulate (ball) golf, the issue that in golf, putting is a very different venue from fairways, rolling a ball instead of sending it flying through the air. Disc golf can't make such a distinction.

That's what I'm wondering, what's the point? DG is it's own sport. I doubt ball golfers have to putt around a tree or from brush near the hole too often either. Eac sport has its own challenges. Can't make things 1 to 1.

I mean a Marksman basket or the like might be neat once a round, like a #18 special -- much like elevated baskets are used. But I think it's better to think of the sport as is and make putting more risk/reward in different ways (mounds, nearby treeline or brush punishing misses, etc) than try to emulate ballers.

 

[txmxer]

That's what I'm wondering, what's the point? DG is it's own sport. I doubt ball golfers have to putt around a tree or from brush near the hole too often either. Eac sport has its own challenges. Can't make things 1 to 1.

I mean a Marksman basket or the like might be neat once a round, like a #18 special -- much like elevated baskets are used. But I think it's better to think of the sport as is and make putting more risk/reward in different ways (mounds, nearby treeline or brush punishing misses, etc) than try to emulate ballers.

Obviously your opinion is wrong. A 15' putt must be exactly the same percentage as ball golf.

 

[R-Ogre]

Hey, PDGA posted a picture of OMD's new basket design

 

[Steve West]

Hey, PDGA posted a picture of OMD's new basket design

Still 100% made.

 

[ThrowBot]

One time for our winter league, the final hole had a mini basket put on top. To complete the hole you had to make the regular basket with a normal disc AND the mini basket with a mini disc, IIRC.

It was fun but a little silly. That's ok in my opinion.

 

[DanJon]

Hey, PDGA posted a picture of OMD's new basket design

They're going to have to redesign it since he now wants it lower to the ground.

 

[Emoney]

Hmmm...

 

[BeRReGoN]

Hmmm...

Which is funny because smaller basket would make Ezra style of putting worse.

 

[ru4por]

Hmmm...

I do not think any pro tournament videos are made better by watching 6 extra putts per round, per pro player. Please.....anyone enlighten me as to what is broken about -13, compared to fixed at -7? More clean up putts on video....YEAH.

 

[Lastchancer88]

I do not think any pro tournament videos are made better by watching 6 extra putts per round, per pro player. Please.....anyone enlighten me as to what is broken about -13, compared to fixed at -7? More clean up putts on video....YEAH.

I agree.

The Foundation Disc Golf Podcast guys were arguing about this. It's interesting. The argument was, if the field continues to get better and closer at the top, then we'll see a leaderboard full of -17's and -16's tied for 2nd and 3rd (the argument was saying most of the field around these numbers) and 1 or two people who manage a -18. And that that would be boring to watch.

I personally don't agree or see that happening. The courses will casually evolve as we go to keep it fresh. I also don't think making putting harder is the way.

Let's take a look at McBeth and the OTB open last weekend. He averaged -8 per round and took 6th. Most of those greens were very manageable, no crazy hillsides etc. He also has the distance to take on a course like that pretty comfortably I imagine. But he still struggled a little with rollers and teeshots. That took enough off his game to reduce him to less than 50% birdies. It feels like some people want -18 to be impossible. I understand if it's TOO easy, but those tournaments are hopefully seeing that and evolving with the game.

For me it's more fun to watch a perfect teeshot like Paul Ulibarri's albatross this year on that insane wooded hole that a lot of people par'd or worse than it is to watch 3 putts on a marksman basket.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I do not think any pro tournament videos are made better by watching 6 extra putts per round, per pro player. Please.....anyone enlighten me as to what is broken about -13, compared to fixed at -7? More clean up putts on video....YEAH.

I'm completely on board with this, particularly from a spectator/fan perspective. More putts from longer ranges is simply more fun to watch.

I would think DGN, Jomez, CCDG, and Gatekeeper wouldn't be happy with long term viewership #'s if baskets were made smaller. Watching players clean up isn't compelling in any way, shape, or form.

 

[glassila]

I'm completely on board with this, particularly from a spectator/fan perspective. More putts from longer ranges is simply more fun to watch.

Watching players clean up isn't compelling in any way, shape, or form.

Ricky going "Raptor Legs" after making a 70 footer...McBeth drilling a clutch 50 footer...Conrad smoking the chains from 50...watching long runs & long makes from pretty much anyone.

I DO NOT want LESS of this!? :doh:

 

[DavidSauls]

Determining proper basket size by strokes-under-par results is a bit backwards. It's more likely to be a par problem, than a design problem.

The backwards part is (1) create a sport, (2) create a term to describe results, (3) don't like how the term designs them, (4) change the sport.

But, to the degree that course design can be improved, it would be best if it resulted in more 25-50' putts for par, fewer 10-25' ones.

 

[Steve West]

I do not think any pro tournament videos are made better by watching 6 extra putts per round, per pro player. Please.....anyone enlighten me as to what is broken about -13, compared to fixed at -7? More clean up putts on video....YEAH.

"Fixed" would have been -11; achieved by setting par lower on a couple of holes, not by more missed putts.

We'll get lower winning scores relative to par than golf because there is a wider gap between the best and the rest in our sport.

 

[davetherocketguy]

Along this line of thought...I do not want to see more 1000'+ holes like at OTB. Whatta snooze-fest. "Oh look, they throw far. Oh and look at them throw far AGAIN." Yawn.

Back on topic though...15'-20' clean-up putts on a smaller basket is WAY more boring that nailing that C2 edge putt. I don't care what anyone says.

 

[glassila]

Along this line of thought...I do not want to see more 1000'+ holes like at OTB. Whatta snooze-fest. "Oh look, they throw far. Oh and look at them throw far AGAIN." Yawn.

Back on topic though...15'-20' clean-up putts on a smaller basket is WAY more boring that nailing that C2 edge putt.

...what he said. :clap:

 

[jakebake91]

To play devil's advocate:

Couldn't the excitement stay, just the numbers change? We used to get jazzed about a clutch 50 footer. Now 38 footers are the same shot? Maybe?

I agree Ezra's looking at this backwards. If we even have a problem, it's par, not equipment.

 

[zenbot]

 

[ru4por]

To play devil's advocate:

Couldn't the excitement stay, just the numbers change? We used to get jazzed about a clutch 50 footer. Now 38 footers are the same shot? Maybe?

I agree Ezra's looking at this backwards. If we even have a problem, it's par, not equipment.

Sure. But, more 50 footers are missed and more 38 footers are missed. Which means more 4-6 foot putts.

 

[ru4por]

The answer to this issue IS NOT giant Paul McBeths.