Rip or Grip Lock

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

I have a clear picture in my head of your throw from everything you describe having never seen it. I would guess SW, HUB, Slowplastic all do to.

Sorry, but do you have any idea how pretentious and questionable that statement is? I sometimes sit on a picnic table near the first hole's tee pad when the course is crowded just to watch people's drives. I've seen nearly as many techniques as there are people to have them. some people can have form that makes even me wince, yet they have optimized their sub-optimal techniques to where they still crush 400'. And I've seen textbook forms that looks smooth and perfectly timed that go 200' max. I've seen run ups that look like half seizure and half response to fire ants biting the thrower's nads, but the distance result is excellent. I've seen rounded throws that should, by all rights, end up in the Columbia river instead of on the fairway. So for you to say you know my throw so exactly from what I've said here...a bit hard to swallow.

By focusing on grip strength you are spending time working on something that won't make any difference if you fix the bit further up the chain that is wrong.

You might as well say, "as long as your hip rotation is correct, you don't even have to move your arms". And, by the way, if I hold the disc upside down with just one finger under the rim and so loosely it falls out of my grip on the reach back, I guess you'd say that can all be fixed by correcting my form earlier in the chain, right? Because grip doesn't matter, so if it's that loose and held in a bizarre way, shouldn't matter one bit - that's what I'm hearing. Some have admitted grip has some effect, but more than a few keep insisting it doesn't have any effect at all.

...if you want us to tell you it's the right thing to do to improve, that's not going to happen. If you are upset that we disagree with you when you basically urge other people to do the same then I'm sorry but i'm still going to disagree.

I come here to discuss, learn and share, not to get anyone's approval. And I'm not aware of urging anyone to do jack, but if someone decides to disagree with you and work on getting results from adjusting their grip, half the posters' statements about grip having zero impact isn't helpful to anyone. Neither is telling them they need to work on other aspects of their technique first. You can have an opinion on that, you can even have way more experience than I do, but its still just your opinion, and it's not one anyone has to share. So often it gets said on this forum what basically amounts to, "I know more than you, so you should just accept everything I say as fact and ignore your own experience, ideas and anyone who dares disagree with me."

And please stop with the appeal to authority arguments. Top player does not necessarily equal top coach.

Especially when your being omniscient about aspects of my drive you've never seen and I've never discussed - how can any of the top players hope to compete with god-like disc golf powers like that? The fools.

 

[BobLoblaw]

I've been lurking on this forum for a few weeks, mostly just as a pastime when I can't be out on the course and also to pick up some tips for myself here and there. This is the first time I've ever been compelled to post.

I mean no disrespect here, honestly, but my god this is frustrating to read. Sequence of events:

-Guy makes post about relatively unimportant aspect of throwing form.
-Far more experienced people tell him (several people, many times) what is almost unequivocally the actual cause of the issue and what will be much more beneficial to work on.
-Guy refutes points (after specifically asking for responses?) based on the fact that pros, who undoubtedly were already 100 times better at the aspects that he actually should be working on, have also emphasized this minor aspect of form.
-More reasoned responses from experienced people, stating what the vast, vast majority of disc golfers would agree is actually the bigger issue.
-Guy again refutes, stating that he prefers to work at tiny changes that make a small improvement on his game over time, rather than working on the larger issues that are being suggested and which would likely have a bigger impact.

By all means, do whatever makes you happy, that's the whole idea of playing this sport, right? But do you also solicit advice about new tires for your broken down car before you get the engine running?

 

[Aim For The Chains]

I've been lurking on this forum for a few weeks, mostly just as a pastime when I can't be out on the course and also to pick up some tips for myself here and there. This is the first time I've ever been compelled to post.

I mean no disrespect here, honestly, but my god this is frustrating to read. Sequence of events:

-Guy makes post about relatively unimportant aspect of throwing form.
-Far more experienced people tell him (several people, many times) what is almost unequivocally the actual cause of the issue and what will be much more beneficial to work on.
-Guy refutes points (after specifically asking for responses?) based on the fact that pros, who undoubtedly were already 100 times better at the aspects that he actually should be working on, have also emphasized this minor aspect of form.
-More reasoned responses from experienced people, stating what the vast, vast majority of disc golfers would agree is actually the bigger issue.
-Guy again refutes, stating that he prefers to work at tiny changes that make a small improvement on his game over time, rather than working on the larger issues that are being suggested and which would likely have a bigger impact.

By all means, do whatever makes you happy, that's the whole idea of playing this sport, right? But do you also solicit advice about new tires for your broken down car before you get the engine running?

might be the best first post in the history of DGCR. my CPU doesn't work that well to get it all complied but I do like this one a lot.

trigger pull that **** /thread. doesn't matter the grip just need 4 rip.

 

[garublador]

Sorry, but do you have any idea how pretentious and questionable that statement is? I sometimes sit on a picnic table near the first hole's tee pad when the course is crowded just to watch people's drives. I've seen nearly as many techniques as there are people to have them. some people can have form that makes even me wince, yet they have optimized their sub-optimal techniques to where they still crush 400'. And I've seen textbook forms that looks smooth and perfectly timed that go 200' max. I've seen run ups that look like half seizure and half response to fire ants biting the thrower's nads, but the distance result is excellent. I've seen rounded throws that should, by all rights, end up in the Columbia river instead of on the fairway. So for you to say you know my throw so exactly from what I've said here...a bit hard to swallow.

I'm not saying this to argue, but really think about whether or not you know what to look for in "good" or "bad" form. If there are people who you think have "good" form but don't throw far and people who you think have "bad" form throw really far, do you really think you're evaluating form correctly? It's very common, especially for newer players to spend a bunch of time focusing on the 80% of the run up and throw that's the least important. All of those difference in form you're seeing clearly aren't super important. What's important is to find what's common among those that throw far and see which of those things those don't throw far aren't doing.

If you don't believe anyone here can evaluate your throw based on your description, then what are you really asking for? Why ask for help when you don't think anyone here will be able to help?

might be the best first post in the history of DGCR. my CPU doesn't work that well to get it all complied but I do like this one a lot.

Cool user name, too.

 

[Nihilist]

TheBeardedFatGuy is a troll. Why are we still feeding him?

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

If you don't believe anyone here can evaluate your throw based on your description, then what are you really asking for? Why ask for help when you don't think anyone here will be able to help?.

That's just it, I DIDN'T describe my throw, yet somehow the guy knows everything about it? As for getting help, the topic is grip. Telling me repeatedly that grip doesn't matter is not helpful to that topic. It's like someone asks for suggestions on what steering wheel cover they should get for their car and is told he's wrong for focusing on steering wheel covers and should be doing an oil change instead. And all they wanted was advice on steering wheel covers. I didn't start the post to talk about anything but grip, but almost all I got was told I'm wrong for even trying to work on that aspect. Well, that's the aspect I am working on. Telling me how to change a tire isn't germane to that topic or my request for advice.

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

I'm not saying this to argue, but really think about whether or not you know what to look for in "good" or "bad" form. If there are people who you think have "good" form but don't throw far and people who you think have "bad" form throw really far, do you really think you're evaluating form correctly? It's very common, especially for newer players to spend a bunch of time focusing on the 80% of the run up and throw that's the least important. All of those difference in form you're seeing clearly aren't super important. What's important is to find what's common among those that throw far and see which of those things those don't throw far aren't doing.

I've watched thousands of hours of instructional videos on form and top pros in world class tournaments, plus I play an average of 7 hours a week when weather permits, so, yeah, I've picked up some knowledge of what's considered good and bad form. Case in point, muscling your throw is pretty universally panned, but it's also true that some players have optimized this sub-optimal technique and can make an impressive drive despite doing this. I know the minutia of timing and can spot the opening of hips or shoulders early or late, and follow through that pulls up short makes my body ache in sympathy. I can spot when a disc is being 'pulled over', an issue I've had to correct in my own form, and I've seen the occasional player who actually makes good ouse of this to force an impressive s-curve out of an overstable disc. Being able to identify these issues is a lot easier than being able to correct them in one's own throw.

 

[Mocheez]

Your original post described the disc either slipping out early or grip locking and releasing late. The solution to your problem has nothing to do with grip.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

That's just it, I DIDN'T describe my throw, yet somehow the guy knows everything about it? As for getting help, the topic is grip. Telling me repeatedly that grip doesn't matter is not helpful to that topic. It's like someone asks for suggestions on what steering wheel cover they should get for their car and is told he's wrong for focusing on steering wheel covers and should be doing an oil change instead. And all they wanted was advice on steering wheel covers. I didn't start the post to talk about anything but grip, but almost all I got was told I'm wrong for even trying to work on that aspect. Well, that's the aspect I am working on. Telling me how to change a tire isn't germane to that topic or my request for advice.

You have over the course of time I've been on these forums described aspects of your throw. Many of which point to glaring errors. Yet you also continue to take personal offense at suggestions you could be doing something wrong. like with one of your technique threads back in the early part of this year based on your description, even with my limited experience with throwing discs ,but lots of athletic experience, I said ~'you are rolling your wrist, just have to be' you got offended e-stomped your feet and insisted that wasn't the case. Fast forward a few months and you start a thread about how you realized you are rolling your wrist.

Your history on these forums follows this example. You describe issues with your throw while insisting the problem is something else and getting offended by attempts at helpful advice.

You are worse than a troll because you seem almost innocent in how you cause frustration but probably the same reason so many swear off posting in your threads to avoid the frustration but just like I'm doing right now, find myself sucked right back in.

As to the topic in this thread it was specifically about grip and cause of grip lock.

Grip is not the cause of grip lock. Period.

I don't know what advice you wanted, but you obviously wanted some kind of magical perfect pressure indicators for grip or something.
Grip is important for disc alignment
Grip is important for transferring power and spin
Grip is important to get into the hit
Grip is NOT part of grip lock and little to do with early release and slips.

 

[Nihilist]

You have over the course of time I've been on these forums described aspects of your throw. Many of which point to glaring errors. Yet you also continue to take personal offense at suggestions you could be doing something wrong. like with one of your technique threads back in the early part of this year based on your description, even with my limited experience with throwing discs ,but lots of athletic experience, I said ~'you are rolling your wrist, just have to be' you got offended e-stomped your feet and insisted that wasn't the case. Fast forward a few months and you start a thread about how you realized you are rolling your wrist.

Your history on these forums follows this example. You describe issues with your throw while insisting the problem is something else and getting offended by attempts at helpful advice.

You are worse than a troll because you seem almost innocent in how you cause frustration but probably the same reason so many swear off posting in your threads to avoid the frustration but just like I'm doing right now, find myself sucked right back in.

As to the topic in this thread it was specifically about grip and cause of grip lock.

Grip is not the cause of grip lock. Period.

I don't know what advice you wanted, but you obviously wanted some kind of magical perfect pressure indicators for grip or something.
Grip is important for disc alignment
Grip is important for transferring power and spin
Grip is important to get into the hit
Grip is NOT part of grip lock and little to do with early release and slips.

^^^^Truth

 

[Mocheez]

I've counted 18 different people that have stated that grip is not the issue.

 

[garublador]

As for getting help, the topic is grip.

No it's not, it's grip lock, which is almost never caused by grip. We can't tell you how to change your grip to prevent grip lock because there is no way to do that. You even said you tried at least one fix from a pro video and it did not help. So instead people are trying to be helpful and giving you ways to fix the issue you described. If you'd rather people just ignored your thread you may have the wrong forum. People here try to be very helpful.

FWIW, here's the actual question and what everyone is replying to:

So, what I'd really like to hear people comment on here is what you've found, if anything, that works for you to get your grip to where the rip happens correctly instead of the disc coming out early and loose, or late and grip locked?

We have all found that grip is not the cause of the issue you're describing.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Even this post admits that the pivot happens.

There's some context to that thread. The pivot happens, but not because you allow it to happen with your grip (what some people thought at the time). It happens because you force it to happen with your rail.

That's just it, I DIDN'T describe my throw, yet somehow the guy knows everything about it? As for getting help, the topic is grip.

The best grip is the most powerful, and thus the most likely to be susceptible to grip-lock. So you can't fix grip-lock by improving your grip.

 

[Inverted]

Try this TBFG

Go do some field work throwing as hard as you can with only a fan grip. Start with putters, mids, fairways. Drivers if they are comfortable.

Report back your findings.

 

[slowplastic]

Notice how Steve Rico's opinion on grip is to have it aligned correctly. At the end of the video (2:00 and on) he shows how rounding is a cause of grip slips or grip locks (even though he doesn't use those words).

 

[rd.bittle]

That's just it, I DIDN'T describe my throw, yet somehow the guy knows everything about it? As for getting help, the topic is grip. Telling me repeatedly that grip doesn't matter is not helpful to that topic. It's like someone asks for suggestions on what steering wheel cover they should get for their car and is told he's wrong for focusing on steering wheel covers and should be doing an oil change instead. And all they wanted was advice on steering wheel covers. I didn't start the post to talk about anything but grip, but almost all I got was told I'm wrong for even trying to work on that aspect. Well, that's the aspect I am working on. Telling me how to change a tire isn't germane to that topic or my request for advice.

More related to this thread would someone asking about the texture of steering wheel covers to increase or lighten their grip on the wheel. His problem is he keeps steering off the road to the right, because his ball joints are shot and his steering linkage is bent.

But people tell him to fix the actual problem and his reply is: Y'all keep saying I wouldn't have to even grip the wheel at all. Y'all are Waaaaaaaayyyyyyyy stupider than me. I need to fix the tiny, insignificant grip problem, and worry about fixing the stance/form/suspension of my car, later.

 

[rd.bittle]

Grip lock is a product of impure form.

 

[sidewinder22]

Lizotte grip lock:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuiJtorP0xk#t=45s

 

[slowplastic]

Haha that was even worse than this one:

(audio NSFW) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_5agyMCMMo

 

[PWaggoner]

I've never seen anyone grip lock as bad as either of those videos. And lizotte is amazing, I couldn't believe he did that.