[Innova] Roc3x midrange

[ThrowBot]

I threw a protostar RocX3 for a few rounds this weekend. Overall it's a solid disc, but there may be too much overlap with my normal Rancho Rocs for it to get a permanent spot in the bag.

In the hand it feels very comfortable. Grip is basically like any other Roc, which I have gotten used to for both FH and BH.

My biggest problem is that the RocX3 does have some high speed turn. I'd rate it -0.5 LSS (rather than the 0 that Innova rates it). Thrown flat with 250' of power into a moderate headwind, it flipped a little bit. That's not a huge problem. It's just not the truly high-speed stable, 0 turn disc that I was looking for.

Wanted something to fit in between my Crystal Zone and Champ Banshee. The RocX3 doesn't quite fit that bill.

 

[Sonormcneal]

I threw a protostar RocX3 for a few rounds this weekend. Overall it's a solid disc, but there may be too much overlap with my normal Rancho Rocs for it to get a permanent spot in the bag.

In the hand it feels very comfortable. Grip is basically like any other Roc, which I have gotten used to for both FH and BH.

My biggest problem is that the RocX3 does have some high speed turn. I'd rate it -0.5 LSS (rather than the 0 that Innova rates it). Thrown flat with 250' of power into a moderate headwind, it flipped a little bit. That's not a huge problem. It's just not the truly high-speed stable, 0 turn disc that I was looking for.

Wanted something to fit in between my Crystal Zone and Champ Banshee. The RocX3 doesn't quite fit that bill.

if you decide to get rid of it, i'd be happy to take it off your hands!

 

[ODRB]

I threw a protostar RocX3 for a few rounds this weekend. Overall it's a solid disc, but there may be too much overlap with my normal Rancho Rocs for it to get a permanent spot in the bag.

In the hand it feels very comfortable. Grip is basically like any other Roc, which I have gotten used to for both FH and BH.

My biggest problem is that the RocX3 does have some high speed turn. I'd rate it -0.5 LSS (rather than the 0 that Innova rates it). Thrown flat with 250' of power into a moderate headwind, it flipped a little bit. That's not a huge problem. It's just not the truly high-speed stable, 0 turn disc that I was looking for.

Wanted something to fit in between my Crystal Zone and Champ Banshee. The RocX3 doesn't quite fit that bill.

So much OAT!

 

[ThrowBot]

So much OAT!

No doubt, especially considering this was at >3,000' elevation!

In all seriousness, I'm not saying that my form is perfect. But I do have a solid basis of comparison throwing other discs that are truly 0 high-speed turn. RocX3 didn't quite live up to that rating.

 

[Lurp Nuts]

The RocX3 has high speed turn. It's not much, but if you are used to Rancho Rocs, it is apparent. Especially when pushing them out past 300.

 

[Marmoset]

I looked for our super-sensitive digital angle finder and I couldn't find it.
I found a less sensitive digital angle finder but it was malfunctioning, even after a battery change.
So I stuck with the analog angle finder.
Here's the setup I built:

Process:
---Slap the disc onto the wooden surface (I made sure the wooden surface is level)
---Position it so the arm will contact the surface radially from the center rather than on a chord
---Position the pivoting arm so it rests flush against the inner rim slant
---Wait for the needle to stop bouncing around
---Transcribe measurement
---Repeat for other discs

This isn't a high tech device so I won't vouch for 100% accuracy; I would guess the accuracy tolerance is +/- 0.5 degrees. The more important part is that all the discs were measured on the same device and with the same methods… so if the results are off, they are all off by the same amount. This makes them great for comparing but slightly dubious if you are trying to reverse engineer the mold.

DX Rancho Roc - 1 degree inner rim slant
Star Rancho Roc - 4.5 degrees
DX Roc 3 – 4 degrees
Champ Roc 3 - 5.5 degrees
Champ RocX3 - 5.5 degrees
R-Pro Roc+ - 13.5 degrees

A couple notes:
---The first measurements I posted are off. I did not build a rig and tried to do it by hand which was difficult. I tried my best but measuring rigs are definitely better than measuring by hand. I apologize for the inaccuracy; it was not intentional.
---the DX plastics have less angle than the premiums. This is probably because of cooling.
--- the difference between the DX Rancho and the Star Rancho is greater (3.5 degrees) when compared to the DX/Champ Roc3 (1.5 degrees) I believe this is because Innova has plussed the premium rim to get more mass inside of it to make it more gyroscopic. I can't prove this, it's just a hunch. I didn't bring any KC Rocs to measure and now I wish I had. What's their measurement? I'll try to add this number later.
---The Star Rancho, Champ Roc3, and Champ RocX3 are all in the same ballpark. 1 degree difference *might* be in the mold, it might be in the cooling. I don't know enough to say one way or the other.
---The true Roc+ is in a different league all together.

Wrap-up:
I started all this because a couple have mentioned them feeling plus-y. They are plus-ier than DX Ranchos (I could tell a minute difference when I paid attention) but really should not feel any different than Roc3s or Star Ranchos.
Champ Rancho and KC Rancho measurements to follow later.

 

[hugheshilton]

Wow, thanks for going to all the trouble! Nice to have some concrete measurements on this stuff. Plus rims have never bothered me all that much (although I've never actually thrown any variant of Roc+ and mostly I throw DX Rocs). Given the measurements, you might consider measuring what could be the plussy-est of plussy rims: the Champ Roc+.

 

[Marmoset]

...I've never actually thrown any variant of Roc+...

Its really weird. I won't say that I HATE it but it is definitely a really weird feeling. And when consistency is the name of the game, weird = bad.

I would actively avoid Roc+ which is why my eyebrows were raised when others were saying the RocX3 felt plussy. RocX3 feels fine IMO. YMMV. I honestly don't think most people will notice a difference.

ODRB/SaROCaM- What colors are your Rocstikas? Mine is the pink in the photo of the measuring rig.

 

[SaROCaM]

ODRB/SaROCaM- What colors are your Rocstikas? Mine is the pink in the photo of the measuring rig.

My RocX3 is a blue protostar. My usual Roc setup is 1 KC and 3 DX Ranchos. Looking for a premium plastic OS Roc that feels as good in my hand as the KC/DX Ranchos. Trying a Star Rancho and this RocX3. Wish I could get a Champ Rancho without paying $35-$40. Might be worth it anyway.

 

[ThrowBot]

Thanks Marmoset for the data! Always helpful to work with actual numbers.

Slight plus rims don't really bug me...or at least, I don't notice up to about 6° (per Marmoset's measurements above). I've never handled a Roc+, but I did notice the plus rim on a friend's driver that I held a few years back. I forget the mold (he was showing off his new custom dye job) but it was something Lat and I remember thinking, "Dang that rim angle is jacked!"

I do throw a Gumbputt Blunt, which has a severely plussy rim. However, the material is so soft that I have to use different grip & mechanics to throw it anyway. The plus rim is the least weird thing about throwing that disc.

 

[ODRB]

My Rocstikas are bright green and pink. They feel exactly the same

SaROCaM, there are PLENTY of Champ Ranchos out there in the $20-$25 range. I have rolled with a Champ Rancho and 2-3 KC and DX Rocs for a long time. Work great, for me.

 

[Marmoset]

DX Rancho Roc - 1 degree inner rim slant
Star Rancho Roc - 4.5 degrees
DX Roc 3 – 4 degrees
Champ Roc 3 - 5.5 degrees
Champ RocX3 - 5.5 degrees
R-Pro Roc+ - 13.5 degrees

updates:
Champ Rancho Roc 2008 Japan Open - 2 degrees
12x KC Pro Rancho Roc - 2 degrees

My DX Ranchos are consistently 1 degree regardless of age. I haven't measured all of them... I think I have about 30. I don't have too many non-DX Rocs because DX is just too tasty.

 

[dekdo]

so ranchos have more beef?

 

[hugheshilton]

so ranchos have more beef?

It seems like opinions are a little divided on that issue. Some people have said yes and some people no. My read is that the RocX3 has more fade than a Rancho, but some people are saying it has less high speed stability, maybe a little turn when thrown into a headwind or with a forehand. Maybe I've got that wrong though.

Hey ORDB, I know you hate the plus rims, but have you thrown yours? What do you say on the stability front? RocX3 more or less HSS for you than your champ Ranchos?

 

[ODRB]

Havent throw one. Maybe I will. Not really liking the feel.

 

[runningDoc]

i've thrown a rocX3 and 2016 lucha usdgc champ rancho roc.

rocX3 is flat like a buzzz OS easy to sidearm. the rancho roc has that roc dome (2016 usdgc less so) and bead.

both are very similar in flight in that they're in between a roc and gator in stability.

2016 usdgc champ rancho roc has more glidey and sweeping hyzer flight while rocX3 has a faster flight has a more low speed dump.

 

[Marmoset]

so ranchos have more beef?

I haven't done a ton of field testing with mine but it appears to be the same HSS as my premium plastic Ranchos but more fade. This gives the appearance of being more overall overstable (HSS) but in reality I think mine are about the same.

The one time I used it in a round it did exactly what it needed to. It went straight and hung out over OB for almost the entire flight. At the end it hooked up and came back safely in bounds exactly where I wanted it. A fresh DX or KC would not have had this much fade. I don't have a good enough feel on the Star Rancho to say if it would have made the shot but I don't think it would have.

RocX3 and Premium Rocs (that I've thrown) are more similar than different. I believe the RocX3 is slightly more OS but not drastically more OS.

So far the disc is doing what I want and feels like a normal Champ Roc. But it doesn't get very much air time when normal Rocs are so awesome.

 

[Stardoggy]

3-7º is pretty typical draft for injection molded plastics with a vertical surface, to help with mold release and tool life.

 

[Marmoset]

My hunch is that the mold they used for the DX Rocs has a 1 degree draft. That's really about as little draft as you want in a high volume mold.

I would have expected closer to two because of the longevity issues you mentioned.

EDIT: Stardoggy, if you don't mind me asking, what's your connection to the injection molding world?

 

[ODRB]

Stardoggy, if you don't mind me asking, what's your connection to the injection molding world?

I give *doggy's mom so much injection. hot. beef. injection.