Roof OB?

[sidewinder22]

The roof is OB, but how does this work with planes and stuff?

1. Here the disc is just barely overhanging off the edge of the roof, so it's overhanging IB, but is this still OB because the roof is OB and that is the surface/plane it's on, or is the disc not surrounded OB because it's overhanging IB?

2. Hypothetically the disc could be surrounded by OB if it were another inch onto the roof, but it would still overhang the IB ground below, so how would this play out in that case?

 

[txmxer]

While one could argue specifics, if the rule is "the roof is OB", it seems obvious the any disc "on the roof" is therefore OB, whether hanging over IB or not.

 

[biscoe]

Clearly inbounds- same as if it were hanging in a tree and crossing the OB line.

Not applicable to this particular photo but if the disc were another couple inches back it would raise the question of whether the gutter is part of the roof- I would say not if forced to rule on it.

 

[Agricolae]

I agree with Biscoe. I, too, would describe the disc as "clearly inbounds". If the gutter is not specified as being part of the roof, it is not. To be OB, the disc needs to be surrounded by the shingles and edging that cover the roof.

 

[Rastnav]

806.02 B. A disc is out-of-bounds if its position is clearly and completely surrounded by an out-of-bounds area.
…
806.02 F. The out-of-bounds line extends a vertical plane. When marking within one meter of the out-of-bounds line, the one meter relief may be taken from any point up or down on the vertical plane.

Since B is not satisfied, F clearly applies. It's not OB and you take your relief anywhere off of the vertical plane.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Good reason to simply declare discs suspended on the roof as "officially" above 2m and have that rule in effect, that is if you want landing on it to be penalized.

 

[sidewinder22]

Good reason to simply declare discs suspended on the roof as "officially" above 2m and have that rule in effect, that is if you want landing on it to be penalized.

The roof is less than 2 meters above the ground at that point.

 

[chevis]

Good reason to simply declare discs suspended on the roof as "officially" above 2m and have that rule in effect, that is if you want landing on it to be penalized.

would you need a waiver from the pdga for this kind of declaration of ob (any suspended disc is ob)?

 

[Cgkdisc]

would you need a waiver from the pdga for this kind of declaration of ob (any suspended disc is ob)?

Probably, if event is sanctioned. I'd be more likely to call the roof a Relief Area, played like OB but without the penalty. That would still allow players to take up to a meter relief from the building wall when marked on the target side and extended relief from the other sides if needed.

 

[roblee]

Whatever they decide they should clean the roof gravel from the gutter first.

 

[ru4por]

I don't think the gutter really has anything to do with the call. Yes, someone could argue it, but it seems the spirit of the rule is the raised top of the building. A tiny piece over the OB line? The disc is in.

 

[Dcinmd]

The proper penalty is that the thrower has to buy everyone on the card a beer from the brewery that 150 feet away.

 

[BillFleming]

Either way....gutter as part of the roof or not...the disc is not fully OB so it is inbounds.

 

[txmxer]

Could a TD say that if the disc is on the roof or it's appurtenances IS OB? Meaning anything that isn't on the ground is OB?

The OB line is in the vertical plane rather than horizontal plane?

Example:
The shed is OB. The OB line for the shed is a vertical plane 12" above surrounding grade.

 

[biscoe]

Could a TD say that if the disc is on the roof or it's appurtenances IS OB? Meaning anything that isn't on the ground is OB?

The OB line is in the vertical plane rather than horizontal plane?

Example:
The shed is OB. The OB line for the shed is a vertical plane 12" above surrounding grade.

We do the opposite with bridges over OB water so I see no reason there could not be defined OB above ground.

 

[txmxer]

We do the opposite with bridges over OB water so I see no reason there could not be defined OB above ground.

on a related thought, can the 2 meter rule be imposed on a single hole? Might be goofy, but just wondering.

I would prefer to avoid/limit unique rules for a specific hole, but seems it could be necessary or desired in some cases.

 

[Cgkdisc]

on a related thought, can the 2 meter rule be imposed on a single hole? Might be goofy, but just wondering.

I would prefer to avoid/limit unique rules for a specific hole, but seems it could be necessary or desired in some cases.

Yes, 2m rule can be assigned to a specific tree (#11, Worlds 2007), a specific hole (#10, Worlds 2007) or the whole course.

 

[krupicka]

We do the opposite with bridges over OB water so I see no reason there could not be defined OB above ground.

It doesn't solve the issue. The difference is if a disc is hanging off the edge of an IB bridge over OB, it's still IB. The problem being looked at here is that a disc hanging off an OB roof is over IB space and thus is IB. The OP is looking for that case to be OB.

 

[biscoe]

It doesn't solve the issue. The difference is if a disc is hanging off the edge of an IB bridge over OB, it's still IB. The problem being looked at here is that a disc hanging off an OB roof is over IB space and thus is IB. The OP is looking for that case to be OB.

Yeah- you're right. Disc hanging partially off is going to be safe in either scenario, I was misreading the case.

 

[txmxer]

Functionally the 2 m rule is a vertical plane.