Saint/Avenger/Surge

[Hoss22]

Sorry about the sig there, that bag list hasn't been updated for a long time. I don't carry stalkers or XL's anymore...far too much overlap. I just updated my sig bag list

 

[Wanderer]

Which of those discs do you throw anhyzers with?...??

 

[blind pilot]

The surge, river and buzzz are more than capable anny discs.

 

[Wanderer]

The surge, river and buzzz are more than capable anny discs.

Let's assume anhyzer distance drives, which leaves the River and Buzzz out. And let's also assume a true anhyzer drive vs an anhyzer flex drive....which leaves the Surge out. Think Roadrunner, Monarch, Avenger SS, etc. None of his drivers are even remotely understable which is the reason I asked the question of him.

 

[Hoss22]

Let's assume anhyzer distance drives, which leaves the River and Buzzz out. And let's also assume a true anhyzer drive vs an anhyzer flex drive....which leaves the Surge out. Think Roadrunner, Monarch, Avenger SS, etc. None of his drivers are even remotely understable which is the reason I asked the question of him.

The discs I throw true annys with is the saint, which is a 170g GL...with nose down will hold anny the full flight, and one of my avengers is nice and beat to crap 170g, flies very much like an avenger SS. And of course one of my rivers, a beat 170 GL, is all about the annys and with the glide and a bit of height will reach out almost out to the saint with a good snap.

 

[blind pilot]

Let's assume anhyzer distance drives, which leaves the River and Buzzz out. And let's also assume a true anhyzer drive vs an anhyzer flex drive....which leaves the Surge out. Think Roadrunner, Monarch, Avenger SS, etc. None of his drivers are even remotely understable which is the reason I asked the question of him.[/QUOT

If you have a little power the surge will hold an anny to the ground without fading out.

 

[Wanderer]

Let's assume anhyzer distance drives, which leaves the River and Buzzz out. And let's also assume a true anhyzer drive vs an anhyzer flex drive....which leaves the Surge out. Think Roadrunner, Monarch, Avenger SS, etc. None of his drivers are even remotely understable which is the reason I asked the question of him.[/QUOT

If you have a little power the surge will hold an anny to the ground without fading out.

"a little power"...and a lot of OAT

 

[Wanderer]

The discs I throw true annys with is the saint, which is a 170g GL...with nose down will hold anny the full flight, and one of my avengers is nice and beat to crap 170g, flies very much like an avenger SS. And of course one of my rivers, a beat 170 GL, is all about the annys and with the glide and a bit of height will reach out almost out to the saint with a good snap.

Okay, the River I can see. But there are much better understable discs for anhyzer drives that stay right than Saints and Avengers. Anyway, to each his own. GL to you.

 

[Tiny]

Honestly a beat up surge can hold anny lines until it slows down. I got a beat up natedoss stamp one that is destroyed. That thing can double for high speed rollers or slower speed annys. If I were to drop all drivers but 1 from my bag. I'd carry all surges all the time. Heavy z for wind duties. Light esp or 150 class elite x for max d. Then 170-172 beat up and slightly beat up. Slightly beat up for control drives. and beat up for understable needs.

It's actually a wonderful disc. You can only learn a disc from start to finish if you actually use it before changing lol.

 

[KniceZ]

What a mess - it all comes down to the condition of the discs and which ones fit your form. To many variables to select from in front of a computer. Go to the field and figure it out yourself.

Which is better - chocolate or vanilla; Ford or Chevy?

 

[Hoss22]

What a mess - it all comes down to the condition of the discs and which ones fit your form. To many variables to select from in front of a computer. Go to the field and figure it out yourself.

Which is better - chocolate or vanilla; Ford or Chevy?

Chocolate and chevy hands down. Everyone knows that.

 

[Wanderer]

Honestly a beat up surge can hold anny lines until it slows down. I got a beat up natedoss stamp one that is destroyed. That thing can double for high speed rollers or slower speed annys. If I were to drop all drivers but 1 from my bag. I'd carry all surges all the time. Heavy z for wind duties. Light esp or 150 class elite x for max d. Then 170-172 beat up and slightly beat up. Slightly beat up for control drives. and beat up for understable needs.

It's actually a wonderful disc. You can only learn a disc from start to finish if you actually use it before changing lol.

That's the fade coming into play, whether beat or not. Does no one actually throw an understable driver for true anhyzers that keep tracking right until they land? It's a shot every disc golfer should be able to execute AND with an understable driver, not flexing or muscling over stable-overstable drivers, which is not the same thing. This should be self evident.

Understable Avengers and Surges? Go figure. Oh well...

 

[blind pilot]

Wanderer,why do you find it so hard to believe that someone can throw a true anny with a surge?

Sure understable drivers(sidewinder,roadrunner)are easier to throw annies,but they are not necessary.

 

[The Hammer]

Anhyzer and hyzer refers to release angles, not flight path. Any disc can be thrown anhyzer or hyzer. Whether the disc is capable of holding the line is a different story.

 

[blind pilot]

Anhyzer and hyzer refers to release angles, not flight path. Any disc can be thrown anhyzer or hyzer. Whether the disc is capable of holding the line is a different story.

I think we know that anhyzer and hyzer are release angles,that's not the point.the point is you can use an assortment of discs to get a right turning flight( assuming you're throwing rhbh)not just understable molds.

 

[justactnormal]

all over the place responses. I went back and read the original post so I don't reply with opinions that don't answer the original question.

You say you like the smaller rim of the Avenger/Saint and are wondering if you will lose D by dropping the Surge, right? IMO, no. Not in my experience, anyways. Maybe the larger wing size technically gives a Surge more distance potential, but I rarely see enough that it matters. Maybe you will want to bag it for courses that give you more room to let it work if, after field testing them, you see enough of a difference that it matters. Since the OP was about overlap and wanting to limit molds, I'm betting that you're more like me and don't see much difference in distance between the larger winged drivers like the Flow/Surge and the Avenger/Saint. Not enough to bag them all anyways.

You say they're more comfortable to throw for you. They are for me as well, so I throw em. Personal opinion, of course. Maybe i give up 20', but the control difference is worth it. The gap is smaller between the Surge and Avenger than the Avenger and the Forces that you throw. If those are working for you for max D type drivers, and you truly do want to eliminate molds, then I would suggest dropping the Surges probably the Flow as well. Maybe start beating up a couple of Forces if those are the 'fastest" discs you throw and are comfortable with them to use for Max D drives and then Avengers/Saints for control drives. But again, that's what works for me. I've found no need to carry a driver of every speed rating. You might find that throwing Avengers/Saints for controlled drives and Forces for Max D works for you as well. Good luck out there.

 

[Wanderer]

I think we know that anhyzer and hyzer are release angles,that's not the point.the point is you can use an assortment of discs to get a right turning flight( assuming you're throwing rhbh)not just understable molds.

We've all seen it...anhyzer drives with stable-OS discs that turn right for the majority of flight and then flatten(flex) out late. With understable drivers you won't get that, they'll continue to track right until they hit ground. Now, there are plenty of hole setups where that is exactly what's needed(i.e. basket placed pretty far to the right where you don't want your drive to fade out at the end). Comprende? Do that consistently with your fade "3" Surge? Not likely. Why not just use a heavier Roadrunner, Sidewinder, Avenger SS, etc for that shot? The continued obstinance on this is interesting.

 

[5QU166Y]

We've all seen it...anhyzer drives with stable-OS discs that turn right for the majority of flight and then flatten(flex) out late. With understable drivers you won't get that, they'll continue to track right until they hit ground. Now, there are plenty of hole setups where that is exactly what's needed(i.e. basket placed pretty far to the right where you don't want your drive to fade out at the end). Comprende? Do that consistently with your fade "3" Surge? Not likely. Why not just use a heavier Roadrunner, Sidewinder, Avenger SS, etc for that shot? The continued obstinance on this is interesting.

My Elite X Avenger is just about as understable as my Avenger SS, but with more control. I can get it to turn over and never come back, or hyzer-flip for a right-finishing late turn. I can do this because my Elite X Avenger is beat to smithereens. Sure, a Surge is meant to be stable/overstable, but if you beat one up--especially a lightweight one, but a heavier one will do as well--it should be able to hold a right-turning line very nicely.

Personally, I don't think it matters what disc you use for a shot, as long as it does what you want consistently. It's up to the OP to decide what disc that is for him.

 

[Ted Bratton]

We've all seen it...anhyzer drives with stable-OS discs that turn right for the majority of flight and then flatten(flex) out late. With understable drivers you won't get that, they'll continue to track right until they hit ground. Now, there are plenty of hole setups where that is exactly what's needed(i.e. basket placed pretty far to the right where you don't want your drive to fade out at the end). Comprende? Do that consistently with your fade "3" Surge? Not likely. Why not just use a heavier Roadrunner, Sidewinder, Avenger SS, etc for that shot? The continued obstinance on this is interesting.

Oh come on wanderer. I throw both annys ways with a lot of discs, I would venture to say most people do, and both styles are equally effective. A lot of people with throw a brand new Buzzz or beat up TB types of discs anhyzer so that they don't risk rolling into nasty situations if they release it a little too fast, too low, too steep etc. It's easy to screw up and a bigger risk than it flatting out too early and not going far enough right in many situations. Many players who can bomb traditionally use a beat up wraith type disc to hyzer-flip-anhyzer all the way just like a brand new roadrunner that goes farther. The wraith is obviously very famous for being an excellent anhyzer and roller disc when seasoned. Paul McBeth uses a 165 star destroyer for his longest anhyzers and rollers. You are the one stubbornly refusing reality.

 

[Wanderer]

Oh come on wanderer. I throw both annys ways with a lot of discs, I would venture to say most people do, and both styles are equally effective. A lot of people with throw a brand new Buzzz or beat up TB types of discs anhyzer so that they don't risk rolling into nasty situations if they release it a little too fast, too low, too steep etc. It's easy to screw up and a bigger risk than it flatting out too early and not going far enough right in many situations. Many players who can bomb traditionally use a beat up wraith type disc to hyzer-flip-anhyzer all the way just like a brand new roadrunner that goes farther. The wraith is obviously very famous for being an excellent anhyzer and roller disc when seasoned. Paul McBeth uses a 165 star destroyer for his longest anhyzers and rollers. You are the one stubbornly refusing reality.

Fair enough. Good points. You acknowledge the whole point too...fading out. I agree it's riskier using an understable driver if one's unable to control the amount of turn or has trouble keeping it in the air. But isn't that what understable drivers are for? That's where release angles come into play. Oh well...