Sling Shot Disc Golf technique on the course

[SocraDeez]

Spring time is here, and there are a lot more players out and about on the course - especially newer, more recreational players - than I saw over the winter. It's great to see so many folks braving the mud and the puddles, and I've played with quite a few new-ish faces recently.

Which brings us to: there is definitely some Sling Shot Disc Golf technique cropping up on courses this Spring. How can you identify this species? No, it's not "Leaves of three, let it be." It's the exaggerated off-arm swim move. I've never seen new-ish player technique with such an emphasis on the off-arm punch/swim move/ what have you. And boy, it is sprayin' shots city.

"But I was stuck at 400." [Punches off arm down] "This got me to 550."

Screengrabs are from the "PULL with your OFF arm" video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8NkhWp0Myg

It's got ~ 42,000 views, and my experience is of course anecdotal. But I did ask two of the players with this exaggerated off-arm move if they were familiar with Sling Shot Disc Golf on youtube, and the answers were a resounding "Oh yeah, love that guy."

Really, this post is pretty much just player hatin', but at a certain point you can't keep it all bottled up inside: "Hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate."

 

[BillFleming]

It's not so much Sling Shot's training.....I find it happens with other videos and newbies....the "I want 500 feet now". They look for a video that explains how to get to X feet or Y more feet and follow that video without realizing it's for the people who already have good form and are getting decent distance. It's like putting a distance driver in the hand of a beginner as their first disc....it's really not going to go well....but it's not because a distance driver is a bad thing to throw....it's because they don't have the experience/form of throwing mids/fairway drivers before going to distance driver.

 

[Brychanus]

Spring time is here, and there are a lot more players out and about on the course - especially newer, more recreational players - than I saw over the winter. It's great to see so many folks braving the mud and the puddles, and I've played with quite a few new-ish faces recently.

Which brings us to: there is definitely some Sling Shot Disc Golf technique cropping up on courses this Spring. How can you identify this species? No, it's not "Leaves of three, let it be." It's the exaggerated off-arm swim move. I've never seen new-ish player technique with such an emphasis on the off-arm punch/swim move/ what have you. And boy, it is sprayin' shots city.

"But I was stuck at 400." [Punches off arm down] "This got me to 550."

Screengrabs are from the "PULL with your OFF arm" video:
It's got ~ 42,000 views, and my experience is of course anecdotal. But I did ask two of the players with this exaggerated off-arm move if they were familiar with Sling Shot Disc Golf on youtube, and the answers were a resounding "Oh yeah, love that guy."

Really, this post is pretty much just player hatin', but at a certain point you can't keep it all bottled up inside: "Hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate."

So like, he illustrates the move that way in the gifs/instruction more like the "literally reach for the front pocket" or "punch straight down" advice, but when I watch his max distance or shorter shots, Coach T himself appears to use some version of the "tuck the elbow into the hip and swim/counter-rotate through" maneuver.

E.g., 0:46 here:



Right?

My understanding of the "reach for the pocket" or "punch down" concepts, if taken literally, will pull your swing axis way offline and you'll fail to properly use the oblique slings and brace the swing.

And boy, it is sprayin' shots city.

Are they throwing 550'?

 

[SocraDeez]

Right?

I'm not sure whether he instructs one way and performs another. And of course it's OK to exaggerate things to explain/emphasize them. There's not much nuanced criticism to be found here. Just plain player hatin'.

Mr. BillFleming is exactly right that it's nothing new under the sun and nothing specific to "Slingshot's training." I once read a book about writing style/usage that began with a brilliant preface: several millennia of recorded writings from scribes of all cultures complaining about all the deplorable things the newest generation of those-who-could-write was up to in regards to usage/style/writing custom etc. E.g., split infinitives!

In addition to the charges of (a) player hatin' and (b) grouchin' about the newest generation of players learning technique online, let's add a pinch of (c) confirmation bias because there's now a spate of instructional disc golf youtube videos on the off-arm swim move.

Which means: it's likely not anything at all specific to Slingshot. Or at least a far cry from the Poison Ivy I portrayed it as. The "Do This To Get 550" (kaboom!) type of instruction just bothers me at times. This instructional style is more my speed:

Like most drills/concepts, it's probably not a fix all, but a piece of the puzzle for many players.

There are couple different ways to execute the trail side move, but they are ALL fundamentally doing the same move with the rear side countering behind the front side in equilibrium(Don't Spill the Beverage!). I can and have thrown doing all these moves that may appear wildly different. I recommend trying them all, not just one, maybe that one won't click for you at first, but another might. If you perform a swing in a pool/water or slow motion you should understand how this leverages the swing extension forward.

 

[Dingus]

Looks like a very average thrower getting 500' on very downhill shots with deceptive camera angles to hide the slope. Just my take on it. opcorn:

 

[seedlings]

Looks like a very average thrower getting 500' on very downhill shots with deceptive camera angles to hide the slope. Just my take on it. opcorn:

I'd take it.

So, I tweaked my shoulder putting practice, of all things. I'm not slinging any shots like that. Don't stand at 10 feet and ONLY pop your fingers into the basket (no arm, no body). Apparently it's real hard on the shoulder… fail

 

[Brychanus]

I'm not sure whether he instructs one way and performs another. And of course it's OK to exaggerate things to explain/emphasize them. There's not much nuanced criticism to be found here. Just plain player hatin'.

Yeah, in his case though I'm worried that it seems like he's showing something fundamentally different from the right mechanic in instruction rather than just an exaggeration. That discrepancy can clearly confuse people. In the "wild" I see people try either "reach for the pocket" or "punch straight down" around a lot & they're throwing their posture all out of whack :-/

Mr. BillFleming is exactly right that it's nothing new under the sun and nothing specific to "Slingshot's training." I once read a book about writing style/usage that began with a brilliant preface: several millennia of recorded writings from scribes of all cultures complaining about all the deplorable things the newest generation of those-who-could-write was up to in regards to usage/style/writing custom etc. E.g., split infinitives!

teehee

In addition to the charges of (a) player hatin' and (b) grouchin' about the newest generation of players learning technique online, let's add a pinch of (c) confirmation bias because there's now a spate of instructional disc golf youtube videos on the off-arm swim move.

And I guess there are still relatively few "here's how to build the house" guides that don't start with the attic.

Which means: it's likely not anything at all specific to Slingshot. Or at least a far cry from the Poison Ivy I portrayed it as. The "Do This To Get 550" (kaboom!) type of instruction just bothers me at times. This instructional style is more my speed:

I'm clearly in this "camp" with you. Slingshot seems more like a snake oil salesman sometimes and I was almost immediately turned off. Anytime I hear "This one simple trick..." anywhere I'm probably moving on. Since he also seems to have a few things about pro form wrong and doesn't appear to respond to legitimate & well-intentioned critical feedback I couldn't stick with it. I'm still worried that people will get hurt following certain advice.

 

[Brychanus]

Looks like a very average thrower getting 500' on very downhill shots with deceptive camera angles to hide the slope. Just my take on it. opcorn:

It does look like that concrete path is probably at some elevation relative to the field. And he's got some serious wind going on in the claimed 570' shot in the video I linked above.

 

[azplaya25]

There was a thread a while back, whip vs swing, where the op described this move as doing a breast stroke in the pool. Thinking about it like this will promote a nice, smooth motion. Going right for the aggressive punch is going to lead people to shanks and maybe injuries. Gotta swim before you punch….

 

[dehaas]

His "double move" thing kills me.

Somebody please make that into an infinite loop .gif and post it in here…

 

[Brenzo44]

Ouch. Watching the latest video where he's immediately telling someone who's paid for a lesson to "spin the leg" hurt to watch.

 

[Waddball]

I liked him at first, just seemed like an enthusiastic amateur trying to help. His 550' throw doesn't look like a super-windy day or a big elevation change, so I'll take him at his word on that. I suspect he's a reasonably athletic guy that worked at it for a while and figured some stuff out by pure emulation.

But when it became apparent that he was trying to monetize his "slingshot" brand, I tuned out. I'm not good enough to really critique his form, but I was also turned off by his resistance to or deflection of any criticism. He really seems like a saleman now, a "this one trick" guy as observed earlier.

 

[blayed]

Youtube recommended this video to me, sounds like the same thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNt03K9qoSQ

A lot of people commented saying hey this is really hard and not helping so he had to make a second video basically saying keep at it for 4-6 months

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB7Btr6Rg5s

You can see he spins out the back leg too lol

 

[BillFleming]

The issue I see with the YT "how to ...." videos on disc golf is that they can be watched at the wrong time. The one this thread is about is an example....who doesn't want to throw 500 feet? I know I would love too....but at the same time, I know one change isn't going to get me from 250 to 500. A beginner isn't going to go from 100 feet to 500 feet by watching that video. There's other things that have to happen first (and probably most importantly you have to have the proper arm swing....my 42 mile per hour noodle arm isn't going to get me 500 feet of distance - ok, maybe it will on a huge downhill roller).

What is needed instead are step-by-step videos, similar to Paul Ulibarri's Scratch-to-Scratch....but his video is mainly directed at one specific person. There are a few video series out there that take things in "order", but they are difficult to find. It would be nice if a pro would create a series:

So You're A Beginner Disc Golfer...
1. All about discs: Plastics, flight numbers, putters, mids. control drivers, distance drivers - oh my!
2. Putting
3. Backhand grip/throw from standstill
<and just keep going in the learning process>

 

[Al Dente]

Ezra Aderhold has a nice short video on his Youtube channel, "What to do with your left arm (for more power)".

The trouble I have with disc golf instruction is the one size fits all approach. This notion that they all do essentially the same thing. If you watch the top players you'll see alot of variation from the back of the teepad through the follow through. They have found what works for them, but what works for Tristan Tanner is not what works for James Conrad and it may not work for you. If what you're doing is not working, and you have decent form, it can be very difficult to identify what needs to be changed.

Lastly, throwing a disc at high speeds is a very athletic act requiring great timing and coordination. So, we should all manage our expectations. It's as unrealistic to think you can teach someone to throw 500' as it is to say you can teach someone to throw a 95 mph fastball. You may improve their form, but that doesn't mean you'll improve their performance.

 

[Brenzo44]

So You're A Beginner Disc Golfer...
1. All about discs: Plastics, flight numbers, putters, mids. control drivers, distance drivers - oh my!
2. Putting
3. Backhand grip/throw from standstill
<and just keep going in the learning process>

Pretty sure Brychanus is essentially doing this on his channel.

 

[Brychanus]

Pretty sure Brychanus is essentially doing this on his channel.

Thanks - I'm admittedly very "by an Am for Ams there." It's not perfect and I'll be amending stuff over time, but hopefully it'll help get some people started and find their way to seabas and other great content. Of course, I'm not a pro and still learning a ton, so it'll be weird to look back at it in the coming years.

I'll be really interested to see how the market for structured instruction grows over time from pro coaches though. Different styles will appeal to different people too. Scratch for scratch is cool but of course it omits a lot. And people toward the top of any game can of course charge top dollar for their instruction.

Inevitably I think more and more of the instructional content (and especially coaching) will end up behind paywalls as the sport grows. It'll be fascinating to see what the next few years bring.

I feel really lucky to have discovered DG at such an important time in its development and feel indebted to so many of the people here who have a part in it.

 

[sidewinder22]

Quite an athlete.

 

[Surly Bastage]

Hi, my name is Surly, and I am a long-suffering, strong-armer.

I try to find anything, anywhere that might help me improve my form. This nugget from one of his videos has stayed with me and done just that:

"You're loose. You are so unbelievably loose, and then I bet you are actually still not that loose. So now get even double loose, triple loose."

For some reason, I chuckle a little every time I think on it, too

 

[Brychanus]

I check on him every once in a while. Food for thought & discussion.

He still puts a lot of emphasis on spin on the rear side. He understands that the rear leg balance and brace are important, but still uses the spin-shift to get onto the front leg. When he puts Simon on the Mount Rushmore of form I sincerely wonder why he still sees the rear leg so differently than some of us.

It looks like in his player example near the end (5:36) he has somewhat improved rear leg balance and front side action, but the player is still spinning out without a counterbalance. He has a fairly flat swing with not much of a coil. There is also the exaggerated swim component swinging the body on a pretty flat plane over the front leg with a stagger stride that compensates for the lack of a full hip rock. Even if that player's shoulder is better, I wonder what's down the pike for his front hip:



I agree with him that you have to want it and work hard at it. But it also seems to implicitly suggest that "hey guy/gal, if you're not getting it, you didn't work hard enough." That might be true, but maybe other reasons apply to.