Sling Shot Disc Golf technique on the course

[Sheep]

I check on him every once in a while. Food for thought & discussion.

He still puts a lot of emphasis on spin on the rear side. He understands that the rear leg balance and brace are important, but still uses the spin-shift to get onto the front leg. When he puts Simon on the Mount Rushmore of form I sincerely wonder why he still sees the rear leg so differently than some of us.

It looks like in his player example near the end (5:36) he has somewhat improved rear leg balance and front side action, but the player is still spinning out without a counterbalance. He has a fairly flat swing with not much of a coil. There is also the exaggerated swim component swinging the body on a pretty flat plane over the front leg with a stagger stride that compensates for the lack of a full hip rock. Even if that player's shoulder is better, I wonder what's down the pike for his front hip:



I agree with him that you have to want it and work hard at it. But it also seems to implicitly suggest that "hey guy/gal, if you're not getting it, you didn't work hard enough." That might be true, but maybe other reasons apply to.

I'm still trying to not comment on this thread.

You've heard my private ramblings about him.

 

[gwsmallwood]

So I've been studying this guy and a couple of his acolytes a bit more closely lately. I'm an ex-baseball player, and what they appear to be teaching looks an awful lot like squashing the bug to me. But is it really? Are they just overexaggerating the movement of the drive leg toward the plant leg after the shift? Could this be a way to drill that helps some people to figure out the weight shift?

I pride myself on being open-minded and trying to learn something, even from people I don't seem to agree with. There are a lot of people who claim to be seeing significant improvements in their game from following Coach T's recommendations. Is there something here that we're missing? Maybe some truths about form that aren't coming across very well in the way he's trying to teach them?

Has anyone watched anything from Tickling Chains Disc Golf on YouTube? He seems to be teaching something similar. He claims to be a high-level baseball coach with 24 years of experience, as well as having a master's in Kinesiology. When we suggested he was teaching squash the bug on one of his videos, his answer was "I'm not because I say I'm not". I (kindly and genuinely curiously) tried to get him to explain how what he was teaching was different, but he stopped responding.

The reason I ask about him specifically is that his form at first glance looks like squash the bug, but if you watch it closely, I think he's actually rotating after the weight shift into the plant/brace. He just drills like he's not, but in the actual throws, I think his weight shifts before that turn of the rear leg.

Could squash the bug be used as a drill to help get the feel of proper weight transfer, rear leg drive, and hip action (both toward the target and rotation)? Is that why some people seem to find this technique so helpful? It goes against so much that I was taught in baseball hitting, but is there some way to redeem it?

 

[M1glareN]

Nice I didn't have to go dig for the thread.

I watched his latest video on the back leg drills linked below. And to me it looks like the way I've come to understand what squishing the bug is. And also the way I've come to understand weight shift I don't see how they can properly shift the weight by still standing on the rear leg. Sure it's drills and not everything always works the same way when it's slowed down and all that. There's also the disconnect I find because it doesn't look to me like he's doing it when he throws and in the video I linked when he shows pro footage, I see nothing of the things he's talking about. I like the Sweeper drill from one of DG Spin Doctors videos, because that really is something I've had issues with since I started, I'm not patient enough. I just haven't had much time to practice lately (why my form thread is "paused") And that video is completely different from what T is teaching. And I know Seabas has talked with Jani so I want to place more credibility on Jani's shoulders in my mind.

Also regarding Tickling Chains, he posted last week on reddit a video and I called it out with regards to the bug squishing and he's baseball background, he didn't reply.

I know I'll have to "disprove" T's latest video (or do I?) because I've already seen it starting popping up "close to home" and I don't want people practicing the wrong thing.

 

[M1glareN]

And I forgot to paste the link and can't seem to edit the comment. Here it is:

https://youtu.be/Nc_SELTKBvo

 

[Brychanus]

So I've been studying this guy and a couple of his acolytes a bit more closely lately. I'm an ex-baseball player, and what they appear to be teaching looks an awful lot like squashing the bug to me. But is it really? Are they just overexaggerating the movement of the drive leg toward the plant leg after the shift? Could this be a way to drill that helps some people to figure out the weight shift?

In terms of the rear leg action, it is squishing the bug if that involves swinging the leg into internal rotation using the weaker set of muscles that interact with the femur.

I think SS's transition move for disc golf involves additional work through his core that is not evident in every instance of baseball squishing the bug I've seen.

I pride myself on being open-minded and trying to learn something, even from people I don't seem to agree with. There are a lot of people who claim to be seeing significant improvements in their game from following Coach T's recommendations. Is there something here that we're missing? Maybe some truths about form that aren't coming across very well in the way he's trying to teach them?

I think he gets people moving loose and athletic and pumps them up to get moving. Not everything he does is off base. But by getting the transition move wrong off the rear leg, you need to develop compensatory motions that are either inefficient or hard on the body (or both). I still haven't seen any of his trainees start to resemble high-level consistent pro tour-level form.

Has anyone watched anything from Tickling Chains Disc Golf on YouTube? He seems to be teaching something similar. He claims to be a high-level baseball coach with 24 years of experience, as well as having a master's in Kinesiology. When we suggested he was teaching squash the bug on one of his videos, his answer was "I'm not because I say I'm not". I (kindly and genuinely curiously) tried to get him to explain how what he was teaching was different, but he stopped responding.

The reason I ask about him specifically is that his form at first glance looks like squash the bug, but if you watch it closely, I think he's actually rotating after the weight shift into the plant/brace. He just drills like he's not, but in the actual throws, I think his weight shifts before that turn of the rear leg.

I noticed this too. In his actual throws, Tickling Chains minimally has an incomplete lateral shift because his rear leg doesn't appear to counterbalance behind him. Notice that his rear leg swings around in a wide arc around his brace instead. He might be trying to swing his mass in off the rear leg using internal rotation/squish the bug. I haven't watched much of his instructional content other than the one where he recommends hip torquing motions in his stretches.

Could squash the bug be used as a drill to help get the feel of proper weight transfer, rear leg drive, and hip action (both toward the target and rotation)? Is that why some people seem to find this technique so helpful? It goes against so much that I was taught in baseball hitting, but is there some way to redeem it?

Practicing an incorrect action that evokes a feeling usually just reinforces that action (speaking strictly from the neuroscience of motor learning literature). The feel of a proper weight transfer is the result of a proper weight transfer. I've been seduced by many doppelgangers myself, and I'm sure there will be more ahead of me. Recently putting in hard work on the door frame drill is teaching me a new meaning of an "effortless" weight shift - no squishing the bug-like move has felt remotely similar.

I think the SS squish the bug or similar moves can feel efficient because they get your weight off the rear leg abruptly, but they are not swinging the mass of the rear leg in efficiently within the swing frame or setting up the most consistent, safe swing - they are just swinging the whole body forward and then causing the swing axis to compensate.