So many divisions!!!!!!!!W

[1978]

I've met plenty of a-holes in the AM divisions, including at Am Nats.

Sorry, I wasn't on my medicine. And yes, you are correct they are everywhere.

 

[1978]

Or just make players packs a voucher that they can combine with payout vouchers. That's what many of the tournaments around Chicago do and it works well IMO.

Perfect...does anyone ever feel they got a $5 "value" out of their mini driver from their players pack?

 

[mashnut]

Perfect...does anyone ever feel they got a $5 "value" out of their mini driver from their players pack?

Sounds like an issue with your merch guy more than an issue with the system. The players packs in the tournaments I was talking about were $15, and the prices were a little over retail but not nearly that much. Minis were $1-2 for the most part.

 

[Future_Primitive]

Sounds like an issue with your merch guy more than an issue with the system. The players packs in the tournaments I was talking about were $15, and the prices were a little over retail but not nearly that much. Minis were $1-2 for the most part.

Same here in a few tourney's in Michigan, a nice $16 voucher for the player pack. If I recall, discs for sale were marked D-Pro ($10), Champion ($13) and Star ($16). Seemed pretty fair to me.

I like getting a custom tourney stamped disc in a player pack for memento sake, especially if it is Cryztal Z or something limited. Otherwise I like the idea of a voucher for the player pack so I can handpick which disc I want. Nice with so many new discs coming out.

 

[coupe]

PDGA rules state that all PDGA members in good standing are eligible to play.

In principle, yes, however, the PDGA Tour Sanctioning Agreement does provide a mechanism for excluding a specific individual from participating in a sanctioned event, whether or not it's invitational:

Local Conditions:
PDGA TDs will enforce the Rules of Play, the Competition Manual, and the Tour Standards. If there are any local conditions regarding this event which would restrict the enforcement of any PDGA rule or the participation of an otherwise eligible PDGA member, please provide details: (bold added)

I know of one case where the PDGA Competition Director (predecessor to the Tour Manager) granted a special condition that extended a suspension against a player issued by a local club that banned him from competing in club-run events to a sanctioned event that fell within the suspension period.

 

[SomeChump]

You need to charge enough for tournaments and pay out enough that people care. If it's the same as a casual round or a weekly, you get the same golf as in a casual round or a weekly. Tourney golf is different and it's mostly because you're playing for something- money, prizes, a rating etc.

I'm more than willing to drop $50 on a weekend tournament without the expectation that I'll walk away with anything more than a disc and a good time unless I'm on the top card.

 

[unclemercy]

It will mean even more when they can say they won $20 for last place cash in the Pro division, even though they are only rated 940.

Days of prizes for ams is coming to and end. Glad to see the Am Worlds is trophy only this year.


I ran my event a few weeks ago with no masters fields. We had a full field and the largest Pro and Advanced field that we have had in a local event in a long time.

i saw the results and was gonna ask you about this. assumed the players decided this for you but im glad it worked out. it wouldnt in a lot of places. saw this thread the other day and didnt have a chance to comment. now its on regular paging nineteen. im commenting after reading three. if this has already been answered blame my phone and my attention span.

im also hoping your days of winning discs and having gave most all of em away gets addressed because lol cmon dog.

 

[chris deitzel]

Love all the input. Lots of great thoughts and views out there.

And yeah I did give away almost all the discs I won from 95-01. Went pro after that. Most were given to new players or used as giveaways. Yep that's right a stack of yellow ce tee birds and eagles are long gone.

And once again don't take anything I said in the initial post as actually meaning how I feel. I was just looking for some discussion. It's good to get people talking.

 

[Dana]

Haven't read the whole thread (as I'm guessing I've read it all before at some point), but I ran a pretty successful event a few years ago- http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/67737

1 division with a bunch of different entry fee choices- All in ($50), Half in ($25) Trophy Only ($10). Yes, we've seen that before... But on top of that, I offered an 'INT side bet' option for those rated under 935. Side bet payed out in merch/funny money.

Other than it being a slight headache come payout time, I thought it ran pretty well. You could also always offer other 'side bet' divisions (Masters, ADV, Rec).

 

[Thumber]

One other question is why don't we just let Ams play for cash within their divisions.

 

[krupicka]

Two reasons Ams don't pay for cash-
A) They are Ams not Pros
B) Ams are what finance the event.

 

[apparition]

I agree that the cost to enter Amateur disc golf tournaments is wildly inflated. Amateur entry fees going to Open payouts is an aimless concept. Especially if the amateur divisions comprise the majority (or vast majority) of participants! Someone mentioned that amateur participation is how this sport grows, and I totally agree.

I would, however, be interested in a entry fee + buy-in system the way ace pools/CTP buy-ins work.

 

[Thumber]

Two reasons Ams don't pay for cash-
A) They are Ams not Pros
B) Ams are what finance the event.

So take what is needed to finance the event and let them play for the remainder in cash.

Pros.....hahaha....what are the qualifications for being a "pro"? Self declaration. How much did the top payed pro make last year? $50K? Maybe. Minus expenses = ?

We might like to use the term pro, but until major corporate sponsorship money comes into the game we will not have true "pros"

 

[apparition]

I said am entry fees going to the "pro" purse is an aimless concept, but I should clarify that it's an aimless "tradition".

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

I think they should do away with all payouts for Ams. I am an am. I would be happy playing for trophy only. and paying less to play. charge me 20. i will play for nothing. charge me 40? i should get something, like a players pack etc.

 

[DavidSauls]

I agree that the cost to enter Amateur disc golf tournaments is wildly inflated. Amateur entry fees going to Open payouts is an aimless concept. Especially if the amateur divisions comprise the majority (or vast majority) of participants! Someone mentioned that amateur participation is how this sport grows, and I totally agree.

I would, however, be interested in a entry fee + buy-in system the way ace pools/CTP buy-ins work.

Whether Am fees are wildly inflated is debatable. If we charge a low entry and pay in back in merch, or a high entry and pay that back in merch, we tend to draw more players with the higher entry. It is the players who are driving the entry fees---at least around here.

Around here, Am entry fees are not going to Open payouts. Ams are getting 100% of their entries back, in merchandise at standard retail costs. Ams are essentially playing for free.

The wholesale/retail margins are going to the clubs or TDs to cover fixed expenses and, sometimes, to add to the Open purse. But that's the clubs'/TDs' money, not the Ams'.

 

[krupicka]

We do not move any money from Am entry fees to Pros either. It is the margin on prizes that allows us to run the events the way we do.

 

[DavidSauls]

I said am entry fees going to the "pro" purse is an aimless concept, but I should clarify that it's an aimless "tradition".

Even if Am entry fees go to Pro purses, I'm not sure why that matters.

I'm a lifelong Am (since 1996, and will be for as long as I last). If Ams get their money's worth from their entry---in players pack and payout and the experience of having someone do the work so they can compete in an organized tournament---what should it matter to them where the rest of the money goes?

Personally, I'm hard-pressed to ever think of a tournament where I didn't get my money's worth.

 

[billmh]

Personally, I'm hard-pressed to ever think of a tournament where I didn't get my money's worth.

I'm with David.

 

[apparition]

Even if Am entry fees go to Pro purses, I'm not sure why that matters.

I'm a lifelong Am (since 1996, and will be for as long as I last). If Ams get their money's worth from their entry---in players pack and payout and the experience of having someone do the work so they can compete in an organized tournament---what should it matter to them where the rest of the money goes?

Personally, I'm hard-pressed to ever think of a tournament where I didn't get my money's worth.

It matters because it's clearly a biased reallocation of wealth, of real money that an amateur entrant throws away, just gives up to whichever Open players play well that day. It would be much more beneficial for the amateurs, course/hosts, and sport in general if the entry fees were low enough to cover costs (to attract more players) or were predetermined to provide financial benefit to the club/course. In my mind it seems irresponsible and disrespectful to have Am fees go to the Pro purse. If a TD or club is going to charge a lot of money for any Am to enter, it's their responsibility to ensure those funds will be used to the maximum benefit of all participants.

For the record, I'm all for national tournaments and A tier events that draw spectators and vendors into a community using Am fees to make the ever possible. Those events benefit more than the participants.