Some Videos for critique

[Lithicon]

I'm only going to do this, cause I love you. But, I have some video laying around I'm going to edit and post up so you can see what I mean by the X-step stuff. IGNORE, everything else, because my form is terrible and I'm doing **** I should completely slap myself for doing. But, it was after a year break of not playing at all. But, my Xstep and pull are good.

 

[BrotherDave]

Sidewinder - My left arm position was the very first thing I noticed when I watched these vids for the first time! Think that's messing with my follow through?

I bet that will be a lot tougher to fix than shifting my weight forward correctly.

BroDave - That's awesome advice!!! Thanks again because I can already 'feel' mentally what I'm going to tweak there and it really makes sense.
and the stillshot diagram? What?!?!?!
Dude, that's fantastic....such a good look.

I won't speak for SW on the first question but from my experience the trailing arm prob generally stems from the urge to hold the disc with both hands early in the throw. I've seen really good players do this but they always get that hand away almost immediately before they reach back, so that the trailing arm isn't counter productive. I try to pretend that my arm is paralyzed from the shoulder down to keep it out of trouble.

RE: weight transfer/reverse pivot

One of the reasons I'm a strong advocate of learning to throw predominately with hyzers and flipping rather than throwing with an anny release (the other reason being I did the latter starting out and am paying for it) is that really instills proper weight transfer into your throw. When you don't get your weight forward and over your pivot/plant foot, and your followthru momentum is back at all rather than forward, you are reverse pivoting. It's very easy to reverse pivot on a big anny throw for example. How to fix it: Throw lots of extreme hyzers with flippy discs, so much hyzer that your body is actually leaning forward and over the disc as it goes by your chest. Experiment with planting your right foot out farther right, like you're trying to trip somebody. Beto actually kicks off with his left foot and into the throw for this very reason.

 

[sidewinder22]

Sidewinder - My left arm position was the very first thing I noticed when I watched these vids for the first time! Think that's messing with my follow through?

I bet that will be a lot tougher to fix than shifting my weight forward correctly.

It could be part of the problem, but probably more likely the result of reverse pivoting.

 

[CwAlbino]

The backhand is pretty much covered so I'll touch more on your forehand. First off your grip looks messed up. Your wrist is cocked up. If you were to just remove your thumb, your index finger should be in a straight line with your forearm(looking at your palm).

With the throw itself, you are releasing early and rolling your wrist over. You don't release for either backhand or forehand. Finish forward and point to your target. By pointing you should be able to get a clean and consistent release. Remember if you are throwing with two fingers under the rim, you need to finish palm up. However your hand is angled with the grip, it should end that way.

 

[Lithicon]

First off, if the video seems Jerky, I'm not sure why. I flew through editing it and uploading it. Lol. Second, this is old form after taking a year off, so no analysis please, I know it's pretty bad. There are only a few good things about this. The X-step is good, the pull is decent but high. Weight transfer is half assed, and have somewhat decent follow through.

That aside, notice how when I go into my X-step, I flow. Body motions all work together in harmony. Everything stays fluid, everything goes smoothly. My Pull actually starts a little early. But, notice how I start right around my left boob. Wait longer, lol. My weight is forward some, but not enough there, but shows you a little better. It's good leading through the X-step, but when I plant, I lean against my weight transfer a little, instead of letting it transfer over my plant foot like I should. But, notice how when I come out of my X-step my entire body is flowing with me, not just my lower body, upper body, or arm going. They're following each other in a controlled manner. Also, notice my steps in all this, my foot placement allows my body to rotate. It's allowing me to coil, and uncoil correctly.

Since I have no idea how to embed video from Tinypic, you gets a link....

 

[Lithicon]

After watching that, the jerky video really ****s it all up. -.-;

 

[CwAlbino]

After watching that, the jerky video really ****s it all up. -.-;

try re-uploading to youtube. The jerkiness might just be tinypic

I was expecting terrible form before watching it from your descriptions. It's not horrible lol.

 

[Lithicon]

Here, it's easier to embed this way too. I was lazy and never wanted to make an account....

 

[Technohic]

Wayne, I think everyone already got you covered. The big thing I saw was both of your bodies looked stiff, straight up and down through the throw. Need to let that torso lean forward over your lead foot before the pull and let it move.

BTW Tom wearing Niners shirt! :hfive:

 

[waynewf]

Yeah, Tom's a big Niners fan and he'll appreciate that getting pointed out.

I appreciate all of the advice and would like to keep it coming although it sounds like the major issues have been pointed out. Also, Sorry I put the FH video on there, but I'm not really looking for advice on my FH. Not that I couldn't use the advice, but I do have a very quirky, 1-finger grip, that I understand doesn't give me max distance, but I am pretty comfortable and accurate with. It's the BH that I'd like to get down as I know those will be my real power shots.

We're going to try to video some more this weekend and see if we can get a good before/after look.

Thanks again guys!

 

[garublador]

Regarding Tom....man, I do agree that his motion looks awkward, but since I got him to start x-stepping, he is just hitting crazy distance....but accuracy I would give him about 65%. I swear to you I'm not lying about him hitting in excess of 430.....

Is it with speed 11+ discs on a big 'S'?

My advice is to do this:

The list could on, basically both of you would be better off starting BH from scratch with the hammer drills and working the hit backwards. Discing down would also help.

IMO, there isn't anything worth salvaging from either of your throws.

I've thought about doing this before, but here's a screen shot of you both entering the power zone:

Compare that to kacthz's putter driving video (or any other video of a big arm pro driving) and see where your arm and disc are. You can check out the pictures of lots of pros throwing here:

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/throwanalysis.shtml

You'll find that at the point that I froze your two videos that most of, if not all, of the shots of the pros at that point look nothing like either of you two and they all look pretty much the same with some minor variations.

 

[waynewf]

I won't speak for SW on the first question but from my experience the trailing arm prob generally stems from the urge to hold the disc with both hands early in the throw. I've seen really good players do this but they always get that hand away almost immediately before they reach back, so that the trailing arm isn't counter productive. I try to pretend that my arm is paralyzed from the shoulder down to keep it out of trouble.

RE: weight transfer/reverse pivot

One of the reasons I'm a strong advocate of learning to throw predominately with hyzers and flipping rather than throwing with an anny release (the other reason being I did the latter starting out and am paying for it) is that really instills proper weight transfer into your throw. When you don't get your weight forward and over your pivot/plant foot, and your followthru momentum is back at all rather than forward, you are reverse pivoting. It's very easy to reverse pivot on a big anny throw for example. How to fix it: Throw lots of extreme hyzers with flippy discs, so much hyzer that your body is actually leaning forward and over the disc as it goes by your chest. Experiment with planting your right foot out farther right, like you're trying to trip somebody. Beto actually kicks off with his left foot and into the throw for this very reason.

I just want to clarify "flippy" from "extreme hyzers with flippy discs..."
So, flippy = understable, i.e. stingray/beast/monarch?

 

[waynewf]

Garublador - Speed 11 with a Big 'S'? The answer is yes...he gets that distance with the Beast or Monarch.

And just to clarify what I'm seeing in those pics, that when the right foot is planted, the disc should be pulled back all the way at that point?

 

[JoshEpoo]

Garublador--And just to clarify what I'm seeing in those pics, that when the right foot is planted, the disc should be pulled back all the way at that point?

No that would be highly undesirable. I'd suggest looking at Kachtz's "Putter driving form tips" thread or w/e it's called, and/or reading up on DGR and taking a gander at the right pec drills.

 

[JoshEpoo]

Feldberg looks like a fat ass in those DGR pics and his rating was like 30-40 points lower. He looks funny. I like the Brinster pics though. Very deliberate and easy to see the positions.

 

[waynewf]

Feldberg looks like a fat ass in those DGR pics and his rating was like 30-40 points lower. He looks funny. I like the Brinster pics though. Very deliberate and easy to see the positions.

OK, I'm looking at the Brinster pics, and to me, the pic on the 4th row down, all the way to the right, looks like the one where he has planted the right foot and the disc is pulled all the way back and he hasn't started pulling it forward.

This is what I was talking about, perhaps I didn't state it clearly...but let me know if I'm misinterpretting the pic sequence.

and thank you.

 

[garublador]

Garublador - Speed 11 with a Big 'S'? The answer is yes...he gets that distance with the Beast or Monarch.

That's what I thought. That's not actually all that uncommon. It just means he's gotten really good at strong arming and torquing discs over. It's what you'd expect from someone who learned to throw fast discs.

And just to clarify what I'm seeing in those pics, that when the right foot is planted, the disc should be pulled back all the way at that point?

That's not where I was going with that, but it's a really good observation.

If I'm not mistaken, what you're seeing is that your weight is back, your shoulders are relatively lined up with the target and the disc is at your body. What you'll see with the pros is either that their weight is back, their shoulders are relatively lined up with the target and the disc is back, or that their weight is forward, their shoulders are relatively lined up with the target and the disc is up at chest level and close to their chest with their arm bent.

With Tom, his weight is back (he never transfers his weight forward at all), the disc is at his waist and his arm is all out of alignment. He's "yanking" the disc around the power zone rather than pulling it through the power zone. My guess is if he did transfer his weight correctly his throws would be way nose up and either way to the left or big grip locks. His throw is based around not transferring his weight.

With you, your weight is back, the disc is at stomach level and it looks to me like your arm is straight. You're also throwing around the power zone rather than through it. Tom is throwing farther because he's using his elbow as a lever a little bit more and accelerating later. He's also getting more turn because he's torquing the disc over farther.

You can see it in the discs' flights too. With both of you the disc just dies all of a sudden. When you develop snap the discs will just either hold their lines or turn a little bit at the point where they'd normally fade for you. It's awesome to see for the first time.

I'll reiterate that the hammer pound drills and working from the hit back will be a lot easier than trying to fix all of the stuff that's been pointed out. If you both spend the time and effort to do it you'll find that throwing is way easier than you thought.

 

[waynewf]

And sidewinder, the discing down has already happened, I just had a bunch of discs out that day and we were doing a bunch of different shots. I'm currently carrying a Nutsac with this lineup; Ridge, Coyote, Buzzz, Gazelle, Teebird.

 

[BrotherDave]

I just want to clarify "flippy" from "extreme hyzers with flippy discs..."
So, flippy = understable, i.e. stingray/beast/monarch?

Yeah, just something understable enough that you can hyzer flip predictably, something that's a challenge to get to fade back.

 

[waynewf]

I've also figured out that my left arm in the "tee-rex" position is a result of my propensity to smoke on the course....which, as an update I have not littered in a few weeks and have been using my nested minis.